The Antichrist

Pico · 06-09-2006, 07:29 PM

Anyone heard of this guy before? http://www.shareintl.org/

Seems like a good candidate for the Antichrist to me.

China Cat Sunflower · 06-10-2006, 01:39 AM

What, Lord Maitrya? He's the planetary ruler for earth. See, this is part of that "ascended Masters" stuff. Ask Taj about it.

Chris

Quahom1 · 06-10-2006, 02:25 AM

Nope. Too grandoise.

Moved to Belief and Spirituality thread.

RubySera_Martin · 06-10-2006, 05:30 AM

I don't understand why we expect the antichrist, given that John says:

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. The Holy Bible : King James Version. 1995 . Logos Research Systems, Inc.: Oak Harbor, WA

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. The Holy Bible : King James Version. 1995 . Logos Research Systems, Inc.: Oak Harbor, WA

Sounds like there have already been many antichrists. We tend to think of the anti-Christ as some sinister evil person. But it seems all we have to do to be an antiChrist is deny that Jesus is the Christ. This would seem to include, based on my best reading, that the anti-Christ is just the ordinary person who does not believe in Jesus as the Christ. I welcome deeper insight, this is just my reading.

I, Brian · 06-10-2006, 09:04 AM

Seen it before - for a Christ (or anti-Christ) figure the showcase photo shows a lot of people don't really seem to care to give him attention (left). It also looks uncannily like John Cleese in Life of Brian (right).

Quahom1 · 06-10-2006, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubySera_Martin

I don't understand why we expect the antichrist, given that John says:

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. The Holy Bible : King James Version. 1995 . Logos Research Systems, Inc.: Oak Harbor, WA

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. The Holy Bible : King James Version. 1995 . Logos Research Systems, Inc.: Oak Harbor, WA

Sounds like there have already been many antichrists. We tend to think of the anti-Christ as some sinister evil person. But it seems all we have to do to be an antiChrist is deny that Jesus is the Christ. This would seem to include, based on my best reading, that the anti-Christ is just the ordinary person who does not believe in Jesus as the Christ. I welcome deeper insight, this is just my reading.

Revelation states there will be one who unites the world for 42 months (a very charismatic individual), then goes nuts for the next 42 months (puts himself as a god to be worshipped), persecuting and destroying, which brings Christ back with His holy army.

RubySera_Martin · 06-10-2006, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Revelation states there will be one who unites the world for 42 months (a very charismatic individual), then goes nuts for the next 42 months (puts himself as a god to be worshipped), persecuting and destroying, which brings Christ back with His holy army.

I've heard objection to Christians trying to make the Bible come true. I never knew what they meant, but this statement "which brings Christ back with His holy army" sure looks like humans can influence Christ's return. I don't think that God operates on that inferior level of motivation. I think Christ's return, if it will happen, will be motivated by some larger cosmic principle of which humans cannot guess or imagine. That is how I was raised to believe and in my opinion it fits better with the image of an almighty, all-powerful, all-knowing God. The other fits right in with human prejudices and "hissy-fits" to use someone else's term. I've read Revelation more than once and nowhere did I get the impression that humans can impact Christ's return. Of course, I don't understand that book and was warned that it is not a good book for the immature to read. I was probably about fourteen when I first attempted to read it. It contains some fascinating imagery.

Quahom1 · 06-10-2006, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubySera_Martin

I've heard objection to Christians trying to make the Bible come true. I never knew what they meant, but this statement "which brings Christ back with His holy army" sure looks like humans can influence Christ's return. I don't think that God operates on that inferior level of motivation. I think Christ's return, if it will happen, will be motivated by some larger cosmic principle of which humans cannot guess or imagine. That is how I was raised to believe and in my opinion it fits better with the image of an almighty, all-powerful, all-knowing God. The other fits right in with human prejudices and "hissy-fits" to use someone else's term. I've read Revelation more than once and nowhere did I get the impression that humans can impact Christ's return. Of course, I don't understand that book and was warned that it is not a good book for the immature to read. I was probably about fourteen when I first attempted to read it. It contains some fascinating imagery.

Ah, but I didn't write the book of Revelations. I only pointed out scripture in a particular holy book. And that particular book is backed by others (Daniel, and Ezekiel), And that book is 1800-2000 years old.

And it is quite specific on how things will happen. Now, whether we believe it or not, is our choice.

v/r

Q

RubySera_Martin · 06-11-2006, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Ah, but I didn't write the book of Revelations. I only pointed out scripture in a particular holy book. And that particular book is backed by others (Daniel, and Ezekiel), And that book is 1800-2000 years old.

And it is quite specific on how things will happen. Now, whether we believe it or not, is our choice.

v/r

Q

I know you did not write the Bible. Do you claim that there is a verse in the Bible that says certain behaviour of a specific world superpower will make Christ come with his armies? I don't remember reading anything to that effect. Would you please you cite chapter and verse so I can read it in context?

Tariki · 06-11-2006, 09:58 AM

"For what is Antichrist but those
Who against Sinners heaven close"

William Blake, from "The Everlasting Gospel"

Quahom1 · 06-11-2006, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubySera_Martin

I know you did not write the Bible. Do you claim that there is a verse in the Bible that says certain behaviour of a specific world superpower will make Christ come with his armies? I don't remember reading anything to that effect. Would you please you cite chapter and verse so I can read it in context?

Actually not a superpower but a person in control of much of the world.

Here is some well thought out and neutral information on who or what the AntiChrist might be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AntiChrist

In the articlce you will find chapter, verse, and counter thought to what some Christians consider the AntiChrist.

v/r

Q

RubySera_Martin · 06-11-2006, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Actually not a superpower but a person in control of much of the world.

That would be the king or president or prime minister or whatever of the superpower that dominates much of the world. We've had quite a number of those in Western societies over the past four or five centuries.

Quote:

Here is some well thought out and neutral information on who or what the AntiChrist might be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AntiChrist

In the articlce you will find chapter, verse, and counter thought to what some Christians consider the AntiChrist.

If I correctly understand that article, then this idea of a single person as the antichrist whose wickedness will bring Christ and his armies is not an explicitly stated verse anywhere in the Bible. It is what people put together from a lot of different sources and contraversial biblical passages. In another post you said:

Quote:

I only pointed out scripture in a particular holy book. And that particular book is backed by others (Daniel, and Ezekiel), And that book is 1800-2000 years old.

That sounds very much like you are saying that there is a specific passage in the Bible that explicitly says the antiChrist will "brings Christ back with His holy army." I don't understand why you would say that when there is no such passage. I am especially puzzled why you would then challenge a person to believe or disbelieve this non-existent passage. Frankly, I feel like I've been lied to and that this lie has been sealed with an oath (the challenge to believe or disbelieve). There is so much in the Bible against bearing false witness and swearing falsely I just don't understand why Christians are forever lying about what the Bible actually says and then condemning me for not believing.

Quahom1 · 06-11-2006, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubySera_Martin

...

That sounds very much like you are saying that there is a specific passage in the Bible that explicitly says the antiChrist will "brings Christ back with His holy army." I don't understand why you would say that when there is no such passage. I am especially puzzled why you would then challenge a person to believe or disbelieve this non-existent passage. Frankly, I feel like I've been lied to and that this lie has been sealed with an oath (the challenge to believe or disbelieve). There is so much in the Bible against bearing false witness and swearing falsely I just don't understand why Christians are forever lying about what the Bible actually says and then condemning me for not believing.

I did specifically state that there is a specific passage that tells us Christ returns with His army. I also specifically stated that He is going against a counter to Himself, and that counter or "Beast" has command of all the armies of earth.

You will find it in Revelation Chapter 20. But if you really want to get the story straight, start by reading from Chapter 9 and continue on through Chapter 20. It tells how things get started, who is affected, and how it ultimately ends. Here I'll even set it up for you : http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...20;&version=49;

If you don't care for the American Standard version, click on the Bible version of your choice. In fact I encourage you to compare the various versions.

Also, please note that Revelations is a book of prophecy, not a book of historical facts concluded. So how can one lie about what hasn't happened yet?

Finally I challenged no one to believe or disbelieve. I simply stated whether one believes or not IS THEIR CHOICE. If you wish to get down to brass tacks, then the term Anti-Christ is mentioned three times in the Gospels. The term false Christ is mentioned many more throughout the bible. The term Dragon and Beast, and false prophet, are also mentioned many times. This is particularly true in Revelation.

Now I'm not concerned what you think of me (I lied about nothing), but to paint a broad stroke over all Christians as liars, is a bit much. Especially when it is a Christian book.

Unlike others you may have met in your encounters, I'm not here to convert you or win you over. I simply present issues and references to answer your questions. What you do with that information is strictly your business.

No one likes to be called something they are not...

v/r

Q

taijasi · 06-11-2006, 11:22 PM

I can tell you what the antichrist is, and quite specifically. So far, no one has stated it accurately on this particular thread, or at least, that I've noticed.

The antichrist is not a specific individual, for this is the same kind of ignorant, superstitious scapegoating that leads some to falsely assume that "the devil" is a force entirely separate from themselves and external. Nothing could be further from the truth. The greatest battle of all fought within the individual is that between his or her own spiritual Presence (identical with `God' for it is the immanent presence of God within every human heart) ... and the lower, "animal" nature, aka the human ego. In this battle, which precipitates fully in some particular lifetime or another, the Angel of the Presence - a definite Individuality - must defeat the sum-total of "evil" that has accumulated throughout the long series of incarnations that each of us has undergone. Most of us are quite a ways yet from that final battle, thus we face lesser conflicts in our present lifetime, though some of these can be substantial battles in & of themselves.

Notice that nowhere in this have I suggested that there is no such thing as external evil, or an external antichrist. Most certainly there are forces which represent both of these (they are not synonymous - the latter is a subset of the former), yet even on a planetary scale, what I said above applies. Collectively, in terms of Humanity, there is also an antichrist, and this is the same force relative to the whole of Humanity as that within each individual which opposes the Christ Presence. Thus, anything that tends toward separativeness as against Unity ... is of the antichrist. Fear, hatred, antipathy and exclusivity - are all examples of this type of force. Cooperation, Forgiveness, Compassion and the Will-to-Good/Goodwill ... are those qualities which are of the Christ and which can & will OVERCOME the antichrist when developed both within the individual, and within the Group - and within collective Humanity.

Perhaps this is not clear. But I fail to see how we could state it any more directly. Not a person, but rather, human attitudes, and the spirit of resistance to the princples of the New Era (of the Aquarian Christ) ... THIS is antichrist.

And as for a quick note about Benjamin Creme and Share International, as pertinent to the OP from Pico ... NEITHER of these represents IN ANY FORM OR FASHION the antichrist. Creme is a disciple or a world server of a certain status, and is most certainly someone guided by and acting according to the spirit of Christ and the Masters. IMHO, he is certainly not "the official spokeperson for" the Christ, or any of that - and in this respect, he is somewhat entangled in the glamours and illusion that affect all world disciples along the Way. We know that Christ needs no spokesperson, so anyone setting him or herself up as such - has already given us the indication we need to be wary. BUT - Creme plays an important and valuable role, inasmuch as he helps to familiarize the intelligent, thinking public with the fact that Christ and the Masters do exist, that their return is imminent, and that They come according to the Divine Plan ... FOR ALL. In this, Creme and Share International (and numerous other groups stemming from the tradition of Alice Bailey) do us all a Service ... and for that, we should be grateful!

Love and Light,

taijasi

RubySera_Martin · 06-11-2006, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Now I'm not concerned what you think of me (I lied about nothing), but to paint a broad stroke over all Christians as liars, is a bit much.

I did not specifically state that anybody lied. I really like taijasi's definition of the antiChrist. It's a bit abstract for me to really get a handle on but it sounds realistic.