The Antichrist Will Easily Take The World

[stevemb88]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

In the early days and centuries of a Faith the people do the best they can to cling to the words of the Messenger. As time passes they begin to lose their way in "clouds" of dogma and doctrine that they practices because their ancestors and their priests say they should. In time they lose the intent behind the practice and begin to worship the practice and not God. I know I do not make myself perfectly clear. These clouds are what darken the sun. Clouds of confusion, dogma, indecision, ignorance . . .

Baha`i scripture deals more deftly than I am able to do"


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As clouds prevent the eyes of men from viewing the phenomenal sun, so the above conditions hinder the people from apprehending that Ideal Sun. It is mentioned in the Book and attributed to the tongue of the unbelievers thus - "And they say what kind of a Messenger is this? he eateth food and walketh in the streets (as we do); unless an angel be sent down to him and become a (fellow-) preacher with him." (K.S. 25) As those Temples of Holiness were subject to outward indigence and adversity and also to natural and bodily necessities, such as hunger, diseases and incidental happenings, the people would become bewildered in saharas of doubt and suspicion and in deserts of imagination and perplexity, (wondering) how could one come from God, claim predominance over all in the earth and ascribe to Himself the motive of the creation of beings - as He hath said, - "Were it not for thee, I would not have created the firmaments," - and yet be afflicted by such trifling matters. For it is heard how every Prophet and His companions suffered adversities such as indigence, diseases and contempt; how the heads of their followers were sent as presents in the cities; how they were prevented from that whereunto they were commanded, and each of them suffered by the hand of the enemies of religion, to such an extent that the latter inflicted upon them whatever they desired.
It is evident that the changes and alterations effected during every Manifestation are the dark cloud which prevents the eye of the servants' knowledge from knowing that Divine Sun which shines forth from the Day-spring of Deity. When the servants who have continued for years to imitate the religion of their ancestors and who have been brought up in its established ceremonies and customs, suddenly find one who hath been among them, their equal in all the human limitations, abolishing those religious ordinances in which they have been trained for successive centuries and the contradictor and denier of which they consider as infidel, impious and profligate - such circumstances naturally constitute a veil and cloud for those whose hearts have not tasted the Salsabile of severance nor drunk from the Kawther of knowledge. As soon as they hear these things, they become so veiled from the comprehension of that Sun, that they declare Him an infidel and condemn Him to death, without appeal. This hath been witnessed since the earliest centuries and is also seen in this time. Therefore an effort should be made that through the invisible 26 assistance we may not be prevented by similar dark veils and the clouds of divine tests from beholding that shining Beauty; that we may know Him in Himself, and if we seek any proof, we may attain to the fountain of the infinite bounty before which all bounties are accounted as nothing; and not to oppose Him every day by an imagination nor by clinging to a fancy. As to His saying: "And will send His angels, etc.": These "angels" are souls who through spiritual power have burned human qualities by the fire of divine love and become characterized with the attributes of the exalted ones and cherubim
(Compilations, Baha'i Scriptures, p. 26)
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Herein He speaks of the time of Christ and the opposition of the priests of the time. It is true as well for the time of Moses, for the time of Muhammed, for the time of Baha`u'llah and those other Perfect Mirrors.

Regards,
Scott

I understand your meaning, and if it goes to far then they are totally separated from God almost like when Moses came down after receiving the Ten Comandments (the first time) and saw the Jews worshiping a golden calf, they hadn't experienced God or Godly teachings in so long they just went their own way.

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

The metaphor works fo r me. The sun is the knowledge of the will of God and it is obscured so man receives no light.The moon is the knowledge of God reflected by the religious leaders of the day, who have lost their way and give no guidance.

I don't think the Nativity Star was a supernatural event. It was probably a comet. And I believe events in the sky are part of the preparation for a new advent.

Regards,
Scott

based on the following quotes from the bible, it seems very clear to me that this is not a metaphor. and to have a star shine on the day you are born, think of the timing and the power to tell the stars what to do on jesus' birth, it is supernatural to me.

Luk 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven....

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Luk 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

Rev 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

based on the following quotes from the bible, it seems very clear to me that this is not a metaphor. and to have a star shine on the day you are born, think of the timing and the power to tell the stars what to do on jesus' birth, it is supernatural to me.

Luk 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven....

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Luk 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

Rev 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

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One should follow one's own heart, I am sure. Though, I see all these things fulfilled in the last two centuries in some way or another.
The "Temple" of course could be the temple of man, rather than stone - so if Jesus did "come back" in that time frame any punishments he met would certainly fulfill the rending of the temple.

If it speaks of "third parts" of the sun moon and stars that sounds more metaphoric than ever to me.

As to the "smoke of the pit" - TRINITY, Hiroshima, Nagasaki . . . .

The literal/metaphor boundary line is fuzzy ti say the least.

Regards,
Scott

[InChristAlways]

I guess the fear factor for the Book of Revelations is based in the concept that the "end days" bring about an end to the world as we know it, and the passing away of the physical world. How could such a thing NOT be fraught with fear, suffering and death?

Among Christians, this is probably a fairly common understanding of the issue. Of course, a common teaching at least in America is that Christians will not be around to have to deal with any of this. It turns them into ostriches, burying their heads so as not to have to look at the matter.

I would like to ask a question. In Paul's inspired epistle, he mentions a "man of sin/lawlessnes. Daniel 11 also mentions a "man of lawlessness" while John mentions an "antichrist". The Christ-ian religion is the only "Abrahamic" religion that believes Paul and Revelation are inspired books, and if that is so, has Paul and John decieved All of Christ-ianity into believing that the Christ has come in the "flesh" and was crucified and Raised Up?.

This "entity/lawless one" appears to come out of Israel/Judah and in fact the Great War of Daniel and revelation happens on the "Mountains of Israel" in the land of Judea/Mt Zion as spoken in the Olivet Discourse and in Zechariah 14/Revelation 19, not the "whole world".
Revelation is in highly symbolic jewish OT symbolism taken from the Old Testament and appears to follow Daniel and Ezekiel's prophecy fairly accurately.

Luke 21: 21 "Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.

Zech 14:5 Then you shall flee [through] My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the LORD my God will come, [And] all the saints with You.

Revelation 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lambkin standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred [and] forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads.

Who would be those decieved if not those who do not believe the Christ has come "in the flesh" and sent by God? Christ even made this statement to the jewish priests/rulers in Jerusalem that they would not see Him again until they called upon the Name of the Lord.

Matt 23: 1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat........... 39 for I say to you, ye may not see me henceforth, till ye may say, Blessed [is] he who is coming in the name of the Lord.'

Here is what Daniel, Paul and John say about the "antichrist/man of sin/lawlessness". This was written before God had the roman army sent to destroy OC Jerusalem in the first century. Thoughts on this? Peace.
Steve

2 thess 2:3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for [that Day will not come] unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Daniel 11:36 And He does as acceptable of Him, the King, and He shall exalt Himself and He shall magnify Himself over every of God and on God of gods He shall speak marvelous things, and He causes to prosper untill Concluding of Menace that One being decided she is done

1 john 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is the antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

The book of revelation also mentions a "man of lawlessness".

Reve 13:5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by InChristAlways

Who would be those decieved if not those who do not believe the Christ has come "in the flesh" and sent by God? Christ even made this statement to the jewish priests/rulers in Jerusalem that they would not see Him again until they called upon the Name of the Lord. Here is what Daniel, Paul and John say about the "antichrist/man of sin/lawlessness". This was written before God had the roman army sent to destroy OC Jerusalem in the first century. Thoughts on this? Peace.
Steve

2 thess 2:3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for [that Day will not come] unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Daniel 11:36 And He does as acceptable of Him, the King, and He shall exalt Himself and He shall magnify Himself over every of God and on God of gods He shall speak marvelous things, and He causes to prosper untill Concluding of Menace that One being decided she is done

1 john 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is the antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

The book of revelation also mentions a "man of lawlessness".

Reve 13:5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.

if there is a singled out individual who is the man of sin, i have always felt it would come from Israel because the Jews would never accept a messiah who is not an israelite, especially in terms of someone leading & expecting 'world-global' peace. i see several possibilities on how this could happen when i consider the ill, lawlessness & the lack of love for life the world is taking. there have always been those who deny Jesus is the Christ but that did not make them of lawlessness.

i do not hold the book of revelations in one single light of ONLY past present or future like many do. i think the blasphemy there in vs.5 is something not very many are going to see as blasphemey, however those in the Body will know because he will also be blaspheming His tabernacle & those who dwell in heaven. this happens every day & all day long from certain individuals of unbelief. unbelief is one thing, but i see those who believe being swiftly persuaded to unbelief as well & that would include those of all religions- not just christians.

[truthseeker]

The Anti-Christ is an individual, but in the sense that the individual is a body of individuals. As The Revelation speaks of nations, there will come a time in which the nations shall become one and, I believe, the ruling individual (body of individuals in like mind) shall be of a Christian background (nation, ancestry) in which it can fool the people into believing that it is of Christ (because it knows how to appeal to the Christ Body) but also endorsing the ways that are anti-christ, such as taking all profession of God away from the state of the new nation in an attempt to be 'indoctrinally correct' in presentation. All of the scriptures that InChristAlways quoted says that much.

Though all people may not believe there is a God or share the same view of the heavens and earth and origins of good and evil, all people can be joined in a unity of fear and need for protection. So the goal is to incite fear and paranoia into the people so as to uproot the basic feeling of security (beit financial, religious, personal, etc.). When a solution is offered, it will come in a package of a proposed new world order with specifications indentifying who is for it or who against it. The world has seen this in so many ways over time but the part of the revelation that has yet to be seen is the fight at Meggido between good and evil. The fight will be a spiritual one, shrouded in political madness. Israel has/will got/get its Messiah. It is a literal war that will not soon end, aimed to destroy the soul of mankind in a presentation to free mankind.

[taijasi]

Wow, in the US we have a president who fits this bill entirely ... and probably not since WWII have the people been so paranoid and suspicious of each other. The current administration has practically made their motto, "Let Xenophobia prevail!!!" ... though certainly, we should not overcredit any one individual (such as the president) or scapegoat him - as something like "antichrist" is well beyond his intellectual ability. And probably beyond his cunning as well. Still, I think one can draw quite a few objective parallels between what you just said, truthseeker, and the current administration - plus his daddy's, plus the Reagan. Put 'em together, and BOOM ... yep, that's close enough to the antichrist for me!!!

protokletos

[mee]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Kindest Regards, Popeye, and welcome to CR!

You have an interesting choice of screen name.

I like your observations.

About Revelations though, my jury is still out and undecided. I have heard a great many interpretations. Most seem to me an attempt to justify the status quo, as though the promises can be avoided "if only we do this or that." For some reason, this interpretation does not sit well in my heart or spirit.

Paranoia? Perhaps.

I agree that much of the language is symbolic. I don't think it will be an actual dragon or some kind of huge lizard that is let loose on the world, for example. One that always intrigued me, from Rev. 9, are the locusts like battle horses with crowns of gold and faces of men, hair of women and teeth of lions, breastplates of iron and wings with the sound of many battle chariots running to battle, with tails of scorpions by which they are able to hurt men.

Are these helicopter pilots? What about the scorpion tails? How does one describe something like a helicopter to a people who were two thousand years away from such technology? And is a helicopter the correct interpretation of the symbol to begin with?

Overall though, I think Revelations is a preview of how our social / political / religious systems will culminate, a vision as it were of the natural end of the path humanity is on. Such is the nature of power. I cannot help but think there is an element of spirit here, of unseen powers and municipalities, that is not readily accounted for.

Literal? No. Prophetic? I think so. Avoidable? I don't know, but I do not think the warning would be necessary if it were avoidable.

the locusts have been doing their job ,they have been let loose on the world for years now,not litral locusts of course ,but symbolic locusts
Jesus had truly released a plaguing woe on Christendom. and what did christendom do , they tried to stamp them out,because of the discomfort they coarsed to them ,but the locusts have kept coming on stronger than ever

[peale]

Who hasn’t played the game of pin the tale on the antichrist? Considering this person does not exist there has been a huge amount of speculation as to who or what it is. Lets assume that the revelations are fact and that these things will come to pass or be it something that in hind sight fits the prophesise, then what are you looking for.

He or it does not believe that Jesus is the Son of God! Well that narrows it down to about 5 and half billion people. Just because we don’t believe in the Son the Father and the Holy Ghost doesn’t make us bad people not fit to go to heaven. I think we should all be judged as individuals.

The number 666 has to have some direct relevance to he or it. Well numbers can be twisted in many ways, my birthday is 21.11.1966 if you reduce that to 3 numbers i.e. 2+1+1+1+1+9=15 then 1+5=6 then add the 66 and hey presto. My company integrates text messaging with web sites and its account number with the mobile networks is puk 666320 another incidence of 666.

He needs to be in control of the beast. Actually we wrote a program, which we nicknamed the beast. How many people have you heard referring to a fast car or a motorbike as the beast.

He needs to create a global currency. There are no privately issued global currencies that have stood the test of time but it is fact that with the Internet something similar to a privately issued currency could and probably will happen. Take a look at www.txtchqs.com it uses mobile phones to transfer funds. If you haven’t already guessed that was the program we nicknamed the beast.

He shall be the lawless one. If god created all life on this planet then why create coke cane, cannabis and opium they are all fundamentally plants. Everything has to have a purpose; maybe human beings need to get high every now and then. There is too much bloody law, If a woman wants to charge for a blowjob then good luck to her, no one makes you use a sexual relief worker, you can always have a wank. If you own a field why can’t you build a home on it, who has the right to denigh you a roof, yet planning laws do exactly that. More laws make more work for lawyers, could you imagine a world with less of them? I’m not saying no law just less and simpler so we all know where we stand.

He shall denigh the desires of women. I have a partner and two beautiful girls and love them all; if a woman fancies me then I think I’m going to have to decline. Men are arse holes for the most part, although we are sometimes smarter than women in academic ways, we can’t run a piss up in a brewery. If women would stop shopping, stop having kids and stop gossiping and take charge of the situation we all would be a **** load better off.

The antichrist will not believe in god the creator. Most educated people have accepted evolution as the reason we look the way we do. I don’t believe god exists. I asked god to show itself and if it did I would dedicate the rest of my life to spreading the word and helping others. Well would you believe it that’s exactly what god did. Like I said I don’t believe god exists I know god exists. My connection with god is not spiritual its factual just like evolution, just like gravity, just like the sun but you have to find it for yourself, all I can say is it is there.

Well bugger me if we haven’t just cleared up the identity of the third most talked about person in the western world who doesn’t actually exist, the first being Christ the son of god and the second being Santa Claus. Now that we have sorted that out do you think we could get back to the little matter of saving our planet because I’m dammed if I am going to leave it in the hands of the dick wit presidents, prime ministers and royal families that have assumed responsibility so far.

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, peale.

If I may remind of the Code of Conduct, please review it before continuing with this. That you have an opinion is well and good, but bear in mind what section you are in, and have the courtesy to treat the others here with some respect while presenting your opinion.

[peace4all]

Has anybody ever thought that maybe someone would try to clone Jesus's DNA? But the attempt would fail and the antichrist would be created instead?

[inhumility]

Originally Posted by Amica

How? Doesn't take much to figure it out. First, we could start by remembering what he know about him:
a) he is the greatest liar of all
b) he will be a tyrant
c) he will claim to be the Messiah
d) he will blasphem
etc.
I personally believe the Antichrist is at our doors

The antichrist is already there and have taken over the world.Whoever is against Jesus and true prophets of God,since the time of Jesus, is antichrist.The prophecies of Bible and Quran have already been fullfilled.
Thanks

[BlaznFattyz]

there are antichrists, but The Antichrist, who will do supernatural works of satan has not yet come. when he does come, it will be after the church has been raptured.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Amica

How? Doesn't take much to figure it out. First, we could start by remembering what he know about him:
a) he is the greatest liar of all
b) he will be a tyrant
c) he will claim to be the Messiah
d) he will blasphem

This and the rest of the story... Interesting, but one thing for you christian... Where in the Bible does it say all of this? I love how it is all "-I- think this" "-I- think that!" "-I- say this" Being a christian do you not live by the bible?? What does the bible say about the "anti-christ" Shouldn't you... Being a "sheep" look to see what your god says not what you think.....

[Amica]

Peace to all of you.

17thAngel: I am not a Christian. I am actually a Muslim. My religious teachings do mention the antichrist (dajjal, as we call him).

I read numerous books on the End Time prophecies both christian and islamic. Tim Lahaye researched a great deal about the person of antichrist based ont he biblical verses. Islamic Hadith (Prophet Muhammad's pbuh sayings and tradition) also provide the description of the dajjal/antichrist that appear even more detailed (the Hadith even provide the description of his parents!).

There are some differences but it seems that the man is going to be a something. According to the Revelation, his spirit existed before, then it was not and then it will be again.