the Bible from a Jehovah's Witness perspective - Page 14

mee · 08-01-2006, 01:03 AM

(John 3:16) "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

(1 John 4:9) By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only-begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him.

John

1:1—"and the Word was a god (godlike; divine)"

Gr., και θεοςηνο λόγος (kai the·os´ en ho lo´gos)
(Proverbs 8:30) then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time,
(John 1:18) No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.... ................yes the bible harmonizes throughout , Jesus had a pre-human life in heaven with his father , and he was the only one created by Jehovah alone , every thing else was created through Jesus. yes Jesus was a master worker in the heavens with his father Jehovah . he really is divine like.

(Genesis 1:26) And God went on to say: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth."

(Genesis 3:22) And Jehovah God went on to say: "Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad, and now in order that he may not put his hand out and actually take [fruit] also from the tree of life and eat and live to time indefinite,—" .............yes he was talking to his first-born son in his pre-human life in the heavens ,with his father Jehovah.

BlaznFattyz · 08-01-2006, 01:35 AM

just by sending the son, who always existed as the word of god, is part of it. if god created the son, like he created adam and satan, and jesus failed like both failed then the son would have just been another creation gone bad. yet the nature of the son, being fully god in spirit, he did not fail. but being man, he had freewill and choose to do the will of god. because he did not fail in his purpose for coming he is exhalted. he is exhalted because he humbled himself of his divine nature and died on the cross for our sins. he is perfect, good, holy, and righteous. because he is god manifested in the flesh, that means that which is god is god from eternity, not created. and that which was flesh died, yet rose again and was glorified as the firstborn over all. firstborn meaning preeminence, meaning christ has the authority of all things, and there is no other name by which we are saved. he is first in all things; the way, the truth, and the life. he is the begotten son, not that he was born on earth as a son and he died of old age and natural causes teaching here and there, but begotten because he died for our sins, and rose again as saviour to the world.

mee · 08-01-2006, 07:37 AM

John 1:1, 2 gives the heavenly name of the one who became Jesus, saying: "In the beginning the Word [Gr., Lo´gos] was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god ["was divine," AT; Mo; or "of divine being," Böhmer; Stage (both German)]. This one was in the beginning with God." Since Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3), the Word’s being with God from "the beginning" must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah’s creative works. This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as "the firstborn of all creation," "the beginning of the creation by God." (Col 1:15; Re 1:1; 3:14) Thus the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, his firstborn Son

BlaznFattyz · 08-01-2006, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

John 1:1, 2 gives the heavenly name of the one who became Jesus, saying: "In the beginning the Word [Gr., Lo´gos] was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god ["was divine," AT; Mo; or "of divine being," Böhmer; Stage (both German)]. This one was in the beginning with God." Since Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3), the Word’s being with God from "the beginning" must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah’s creative works. This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as "the firstborn of all creation," "the beginning of the creation by God." (Col 1:15; Re 1:1; 3:14) Thus the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, his firstborn Son

here we see that jesus was glorified with the father before the creation of things:

John 17:5: "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was."

Here we see the Son is Also God, he is the one who created all things.

Isaiah 40:28, "Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom."

John 1:3, "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."

Col. 1:16-17, "For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together."

Here we see that the Son who is the saviour is also God.

Isaiah 45:21, "...And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me."

1 John 4:14, "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world."

Here we see that the father and the son are both Alpha and Omega, first and the last, both are one, because both are God.

Isaiah 44:6, "This is what the LORD says -Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God."

Revelation 1:8, "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

Revelation 1:17-18, "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades."

I and the Father are one." Heb. 1:8 God the Father says to the Son ‘your throne O’ God is forever and ever".

So when you realize that Jesus is the Son of God and is God manifested in the flesh who died for our sins and rose again, taken back to glory with God who he was with before all things, you may realize that God does not need to create God, because God always existed, therefore the Son who is God always existed. The son is not born or created, he is the eternal Son of God. The "begotten" is the proclamation of God the father himself declaring the sent and glorified risen Christ, as our Saviour, as having oneness with God, and the only way to God:

Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Heb.1:5 " For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Romans 1:3-4 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Abogado del Diablo · 08-01-2006, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work 2 timothy 3;16

Here's something I've always been curious about. In this passage, what is the author referring to when he/she uses the term "Scripture"?

Dor · 08-01-2006, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

and the Word was a god ["was divine," AT; Mo; or "of divine being," Böhmer; Stage (both German)]. This one was in the beginning with God." Since Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3), the Word’s being with God from "the beginning" must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah’s creative works. This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as "the firstborn of all creation," "the beginning of the creation by God."

Ok so let me see if I understand this the NWT says it should say a god instead of God. And that Jesus was the first thing created by God and he is a god.

Well wouldnt that make JW's polythestic.

And wouldnt that make
American Standard
New American Standard
English Standard
King James
New King James
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Third Millennium Bible
New Living Translation
New Revised Standard
Revised Standard
Good News
Douay-Rheims
New Century Version
God's Word translation
World English
The Message
The Complete Jewish Bible
The Bible in Basic English
The Darby Translation
The Webster Bible
Young's Literal Translation
Weymouth New Testament
NIV
Today's New International Version
New International Readers Version
all wrong cause they say 'and the Word was God'.....hmmmm.

Quahom1 · 08-02-2006, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abogado del Diablo

Here's something I've always been curious about. In this passage, what is the author referring to when he/she uses the term "Scripture"?

Exactly what you thought..."all scripture"

When I hear or read "scripture", and know it is God inspired (and we know), I like to think I take heed and apply it to my day to day living (as best I can). I think I know where you are going with this, and I happen to agree, not every God given bit of advice and/or instruction is between the bindings of a cover titled "Holy Bible" ?

v/r

Q

mee · 08-02-2006, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

Ok so let me see if I understand this the NWT says it should say a god instead of God. And that Jesus was the first thing created by God and he is a god.

Well wouldnt that make JW's polythestic.

And wouldnt that make
American Standard
New American Standard
English Standard
King James
New King James
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Third Millennium Bible
New Living Translation
New Revised Standard
Revised Standard
Good News
Douay-Rheims
New Century Version
God's Word translation
World English
The Message
The Complete Jewish Bible
The Bible in Basic English
The Darby Translation
The Webster Bible
Young's Literal Translation
Weymouth New Testament
NIV
Today's New International Version
New International Readers Version
all wrong cause they say 'and the Word was God'.....hmmmm.

yes ,Jesus really is like God , in fact he is the image of God, he had a pre-human life for who knows how many thousands or billions of years with his father Jehovah in the heavens , when he learned from Jehovah , he was learning from the God of LOVE . because Jehovah is love. yes as you mentioned ,many translators have gone along with the trinity teaching , which then puts the bible out of harmony, but from a JW point of view we get back to the original meaning , then the bible does not contridict itself. i think these verses say it all .

(Proverbs 8:30) then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time,................ yes Jesus really was a master worker he had the best teacher, his father Jehovah.

(John 17:5) So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was. ....................................yes Jesus plays a very big part in Jehovahs purpose for the earth , in fact everything was created through Jesus , but Jesus was created by Jehovah alone. i love the way the bible harmonizes throughout
(Proverbs 8:22) "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago.
(Colossians 1:15) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
(Revelation 3:14) "And to the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce´a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God,

mee · 08-02-2006, 08:58 AM

No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him. John 1;18
In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in [the] beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.John1;1-2
So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth. John1;14
(Exodus 33:20) And he added: "You are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and yet live............. Gods son Jesus came to earth but Jehovah did not , because Jehovah is dynamic energy and no man is able to see his face and live .
(John 6:46) Not that any man has seen the Father, except he who is from God; this one has seen the Father.............. and we knowthat one is his son Jesus christ.
(1 John 4:12) At no time has anyone beheld God. If we continue loving one another, God remains in us and his love is made perfect in us.

mee · 08-02-2006, 09:16 AM

(John 5:37) Also, the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. YOU have neither heard his voice at any time nor seen his figure;

(John 6:38) because I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me.............yes his father Jehovah sent him.
(John 8:23) So he went on to say to them: "YOU are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. YOU are from this world; I am not from this world...............yes Jesus had a pre-human life in the heavens with his father Jehovah . i love the way the bible harmonizes.
(John 8:42) Jesus said to them: "If God were YOUR Father, YOU would love me, for from God I came forth and am here. Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that One sent me forth.............yes his father Jehovah sent him forth.
(1 Corinthians 15:47) The first man is out of the earth and made of dust; the second man is out of heaven. ................................yes Jesus had a pre-human life in heaven with his father Jehovah
(Ephesians 4:9) Now the expression "he ascended," what does it mean but that he also descended into the lower regions, that is, the earth? ......................yes his Father Jehovah sent him to the earth.
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting lifeJohn 3;16

(Romans 8:32) He who did not even spare his own Son but delivered him up for us all, why will he not also with him kindly give us all other things?

(1 John 4:9) By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only-begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him.

mee · 08-02-2006, 09:36 AM

yes this son that Jehovah sent to earth will do great things for the earth, the earth will be brought back to paradise conditions, through the heavenly kingdom goverment that Jesus is now king of. Daniel 2;44the English word "paradise" is related to Greek, Persian, and Hebrew words that all carry the thought of a park or garden, a peaceful, refreshing place. The Bible promises that some day the earth will be a physical paradise, a gardenlike home for a sinless human race. (Psalm 37:10, 11)

No lazy man’s paradise this; it will be a place of satisfying activity. (Compare John 5:17.) Restoration of paradise will be accomplished by individuals carrying out the command given to man in the original paradise: subdue the earth, cultivate it and care for it. Man’s willingness to do so in harmony with divine instructions, coupled with God’s blessing, will bring about a gradual spreading of paradise conditions throughout the globe.—Gen. 1:28.

Many persons today are frustrated with their work, for it often is monotonous and seems to accomplish little more than offering the means to survive from one day to the next. What a contrast, though, in the picture conveyed by the prophetic words of Isaiah: "People will build houses and get to live in them—they will not be used by someone else. They will plant vineyards and enjoy the wine—it will not be drunk by others. . . . They will fully enjoy the things that they have worked for. . . . I will bless them and their descendants for all time to come." (Isa. 65:21-23, Today’s English Version) Conditions comparable to that will exist in the coming earthly paradise. Can you imagine how satisfying it will be to apply your energies and talents to such work?—Eccl. 2:24. and it will all come about because those living on the earth will be instructed by Jehovah. so, this is GOODNEWS INDEED bring it on
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come matthew 24;14 yes this heavenly kingdom will accomplish what manmade goverments will never be able to accomplish....PARADISE

Abogado del Diablo · 08-02-2006, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Exactly what you thought..."all scripture"

When I hear or read "scripture", and know it is God inspired (and we know), I like to think I take heed and apply it to my day to day living (as best I can). I think I know where you are going with this, and I happen to agree, not every God given bit of advice and/or instruction is between the bindings of a cover titled "Holy Bible" ?

v/r

Q

That's part of it. But also, at the time this was written, there was no "New Testament" or a recognized "canon" of Christian writings, and there were whole bunch of things that were widely read in early Christian churches and treated as authoritative writings that did not make the official "canon." So what is the author referring to? Just the Jewish scriptures? Or does it include some "Christian" writings? If so, which ones is the author talking about? And how do we know that?

mee · 08-02-2006, 04:57 PM

With each passing year, the world is becoming more and more dangerous. It is overrun with warring armies, dishonest politicians, hypocritical religious leaders, and hardened criminals. The world as a whole is beyond reform. The Bible reveals that the time is near when God will eliminate the wicked world during his war of Armageddon. This will make way for a righteous new world.—Revelation 16:14-16.

Jehovah God selected Jesus Christ to be Ruler of His heavenly Kingdom, or government. Long ago, the Bible foretold: "Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called . . . Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end." (Isaiah 9:6, 7, King James Version) Regarding this government, Jesus taught his followers to pray: "Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth." (Matthew 6:10) God’s Kingdom will soon remove all the governments of this world, and it itself will replace all of them. (Daniel 2:44) Then God’s Kingdom will usher in an earthly paradise. what a great thing to see that the bible promises us that the earth will be a paradise. thats because Jesus is the prince of peace, and those who want to be ruled by him will fall inline with the heavenly kingdom that he is king of. just what we need isnt it?

JustifiedByFaith · 08-10-2006, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

The whole world is not in the power of Satan, the wicked one.

Dear Quahom1,

Good point you made. It's the "sway", "wiles" or "deception" of the evil one... that's what the bible speaks of.

The world isn't under the power of Satan. He is the great deceiver and father of lies in the world.

JustifiedByFaith · 08-10-2006, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

With each passing year, the world is becoming more and more dangerous. It is overrun with warring armies, dishonest politicians, hypocritical religious leaders, and hardened criminals. The world as a whole is beyond reform. The Bible reveals that the time is near when God will eliminate the wicked world during his war of Armageddon. This will make way for a righteous new world.—Revelation 16:14-16.

Jehovah God selected Jesus Christ to be Ruler of His heavenly Kingdom, or government. Long ago, the Bible foretold: "Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called . . . Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end." (Isaiah 9:6, 7, King James Version) Regarding this government, Jesus taught his followers to pray: "Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth." (Matthew 6:10) God’s Kingdom will soon remove all the governments of this world, and it itself will replace all of them. (Daniel 2:44) Then God’s Kingdom will usher in an earthly paradise. what a great thing to see that the bible promises us that the earth will be a paradise. thats because Jesus is the prince of peace, and those who want to be ruled by him will fall inline with the heavenly kingdom that he is king of. just what we need isnt it?

Yes.