the Bible from a Jehovah's Witness perspective

[Quahom1]

Since this thread has slipped off track from the original thought, I propose to split it into two. There seems to be alot of interest in discussing Jehovah's Witness philosophies, which should be in its own area for such discussion, here in the Christian forum.


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[Quahom1]

Right, Now that this has a dedicated thread to the Jehovah's Witness philosophy, I'm certain there are folks like me who wish to ask questions and come to an understanding about this part of the Christian faith.

As such this should be as an information gathering discussion from the resident experts on Jehovah's Witnesses.

It is only fair since we've had threads on Catholicism and Latter Day Saints, as well as other branches of Christianity, that one should be set up for JW thought.

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[Quahom1]

Now what I would like to know is the origins and history of the founding of the Jehovah's Witnesses. I'd prefer to hear it from those that follow it (or have), because it gives a personal perspective and insight.

I've had the oppertunity to explain alot about the Catholic faith elsewhere, and think it appropriate that others enjoy the same.

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[mee]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

there have been plenty of wars before 1914; greek, roman, egyptian, assyrian, persian, european, etc.. the claim of 1914 is as ridiculous as all other failed dates given by the jw as biblical, especially since there is no scripture to support it.

the signs that Jesus left us , was a composite sign ,not just war , the signs would have to be happening all at the same time , so you are right to say that there have always been wars on the earth , but the sign that Jesus left us would be happening altogeather within a certain generation of people , and since 1914 we have seen an increase in the signs Jesus said to look out for
"For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress matthew 24;7....yes 1914 was the year that the first world war happened and many nations were involved with that

And another came forth, a fiery-colored horse; and to the one seated upon it there was granted to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another; and a great sword was given him...revelation 6;4...yes this horse spoken of in revelation is war . so the signs have come true just as Jesus said .Jesus foretold a multitude of events that together would constitute a sign that would be identifiable from anywhere on earth ,but the question is do we recognize the sign?

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Now what I would like to know is the origins and history of the founding of the Jehovah's Witnesses. I'd prefer to hear it from those that follow it (or have), because it gives a personal perspective and insight.

I've had the oppertunity to explain alot about the Catholic faith elsewhere, and think it appropriate that others enjoy the same.



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The modern-day history of Jehovah’s Witnesses began with the forming of a group for Bible study in Allegheny, Pennsylvania, U.S.A., in the early 1870’s. At first they were known only as Bible Students, but in 1931 they adopted the Scriptural name Jehovah’s Witnesses. (Isa. 43:10-12) Their beliefs and practices are not new but are a restoration of first-century Christianity

[Curios Mike]

Their beliefs and practices are not new but are a restoration of first-century Christianity

That is very interesting... The church I was once a part of also claims the same thing. How or what happened in this event that made it seem like a revolation?.... If its possible can you describe the event(short and sweet if possible)

[mee]

Originally Posted by Curios Mike

That is very interesting... The church I was once a part of also claims the same thing. How or what happened in this event that made it seem like a revolation?.... If its possible can you describe the event(short and sweet if possible)

well as i wasnt around at the time LOL i will be short and sweet , As they were bible students their aim was to do the will of God
"God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth."—JOHN 4:24

and Jehovah is looking for those who want to get it right inline with his word the bible. this brings to my mind the verse in matthew 24;45-47
"Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings....... so i supose its to do with faithfulness to God

(Matthew 25:21) His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave! You were faithful over a few things. I will appoint you over many things. Enter into the joy of your master ......... so we believe that we are being blessed with understanding of the bible and its prophecies for today , because we did not become rebellious and lean on our own understanding but stayed faithful to God

And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant DANIEL 12;4

[Curios Mike]

Still sounds the same. I think its pretty neat though. I believe they discovered some things Christianity have lost through the years of interpretations and arguments and so on and so forth. They where also Biblical students trying to find truth, and a deeper relationship with God. Anyways I want go into details, but I guess what I'm trying to say is it seems alot of denoms speak the same way about their own denominations. But I'd still like to know a little more about this event?

[mee]

Originally Posted by Curios Mike

Still sounds the same. I think its pretty neat though. I believe they discovered some things Christianity have lost through the years of interpretations and arguments and so on and so forth. They where also Biblical students trying to find truth, and a deeper relationship with God. Anyways I want go into details, but I guess what I'm trying to say is it seems alot of denoms speak the same way about their own denominations. But I'd still like to know a little more about this event?

yes you are quite right to say that others say theyare Gods channel , but did not Jesus say by their fruits you will recogonize those men,
a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men]...matthew 7;18-20

so what is the fruitage ,is it in line with the teachings of Jesus and the bible? what are their beliefs based on?if Jesus said you will recognize those men then it sould be plain to see
"Either YOU people make the tree fine and its fruit fine or make the tree rotten and its fruit rotten; for by its fruit the tree is known .... matthew 12;33..it is true that their are individualpeople all over the world that maybe trying to get back to the true teaching of Jesus , but Jesus did say that there would be a faithful slave class who would be feeding us in a spiritual way in this time of the end ...MATTHEW 24;45-47 and it is my belief as one of jw that Jesus is directing and teaching his people through this channel . the main thing that this channel is doing ,is to carry on the preaching of the goodnews of the kingdom that Jesus himself said should be taken to the whole inhabited earth.and i think that the fruitage of this command from Jesus speaks for its self when it comes to JW

And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.....matthew 28;19-20

And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come....matthew 24;14.we are carring on the work that Jesus taught his early followers and that is telling others the Good news about Gods kingdom

(Mark 13:10) Also, in all the nations the good news has to be preached first.

(Romans 10:18) Nevertheless I ask, They did not fail to hear, did they? Why, in fact, "into all the earth their sound went out, and to the extremities of the inhabited earth their utterances."



(Revelation 14:6) And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people

while I did not hold back from telling YOU any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching YOU publicly and from house to house...ACTS 20;20

And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus. ACTS 5;42 So have JW produced any fruitage of this sort? continually ,even under opposition do you not agree that this is getting back to how Jesus said the preaching work should be done?

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

I have met other Christians whose faith is based more on their fear of the devil than on their love of God as well. Most of them were/are Jehovah's Witnesses. These people seem to be more in contact with demonic forces more than any other denomination of Christianity that I've known. My grandmother spoke of the same things that E99 speak of. Not to say that JW draws demons, but that it is a religion which is a sort of 'safe haven' for those who have a good healthy fear of the devil.

I would think it is somewhat unfair to label Jehovah's Witnesses as narrowly as this - belief in Satan as a literal figure is not an exclusively JW perception, and having engaged with JW's often enough in the past, both off and online, I can safely say that the movement is concerned with a wider remit.

I think the issue is more that the JW movement is essentially an apocalyptic movement, so for the past 150 years or so they have been trying to set themselves up as a body in final preparation for the end of the world as we know it - so the final battle between God and Satan certainly plays a major role in their theological perspective.

However, I'm not sure I would claim all JW's are more concerned with Satan than God - you get all sorts of apples in all sorts of barrels, and I only ever met one who was more obsessed with demons and evil, than actually trying to be good before God.

As a non-Christian I have often enjoyed engaging with JWs, because their clear insistance to referring to Bible passages for seeming every reason forces a deeper reading of the work. Even when in disagreement, the journey itself can be stimulating.

So overall, I'd ask for a little more respect to JW's as we afford to all denominations here - I appreciate that this creates something of a wide uncomfortable boat, but I figure any group that sees the Resurrection of Jesus as a core part of their belief as a common Christian platform to share - the details of disagreement can surely follow after?

[mee]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I would think it is somewhat unfair to label Jehovah's Witnesses as narrowly as this - belief in Satan as a literal figure is not an exclusively JW perception, and having engaged with JW's often enough in the past, both off and online, I can safely say that the movement is concerned with a wider remit.

I think the issue is more that the JW movement is essentially an apocalyptic movement, so for the past 150 years or so they have been trying to set themselves up as a body in final preparation for the end of the world as we know it - so the final battle between God and Satan certainly plays a major role in their theological perspective.

However, I'm not sure I would claim all JW's are more concerned with Satan than God - you get all sorts of apples in all sorts of barrels, and I only ever met one who was more obsessed with demons and evil, than actually trying to be good before God.

As a non-Christian I have often enjoyed engaging with JWs, because their clear insistance to referring to Bible passages for seeming every reason forces a deeper reading of the work. Even when in disagreement, the journey itself can be stimulating.

So overall, I'd ask for a little more respect to JW's as we afford to all denominations here - I appreciate that this creates something of a wide uncomfortable boat, but I figure any group that sees the Resurrection of Jesus as a core part of their belief as a common Christian platform to share - the details of disagreement can surely follow after?

thank you for your words , yes many people are quick to listen to propaganda about JW but when it comes to listening to those who are very happy in the JW faith , now that is a different story , but as we believe that the preaching about Gods established heavenly kingdom is the work that is asigned to christians in this time of the end . and we also believe that nothing can stop Jehovahs purpose from being acomplished that is why the JW are known all over the world as all making known about the heavenly kingdom that was established in 1914 in the heavens , and every thing about this kingdom is only Good news for those who want to live under the rulership of this kingdom goverment ,with Jesus christ the first born son of God as the king and judge sitting on the throne of this kingdom . who could be better than the son of God to rule all of mankind and to judge the nations. when the time comes for Jesus to go in to action regarding the nations , those who Jesus classes as sheeplike will inherit everlasting life those who have proved them selves to be Goatlike will go in to cutting-off ,to be cut off means they will not benefit from the kingdom and what it will do for the earth. i think that sometimes people can be very goatlike , by not recognizeing the ones that Jesus is using to dish out spiritual food at the right time ..matthew 24;45-47 the faithful slave class is the one that jesus is using to dish out spiritual food at the right time, and then this slave class can feed their domestics, the domestics are the other sheep or the great crowd who in this time of the end are very well feed in a spiritual way. so for me i am very very thankful that the faithful slave class has been doing its job very well over the years because they have filled me up with lots of bible truth and understanding about the prophecies in the bible jw are over flowing with all of this understanding about the scriptures and dont want to keep it all to themselves they want to imitate the faithful slave class and dish it out to others to

[truthseeker]

Yeah. With a ten-foot spoon...

[truthseeker]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I would think it is somewhat unfair to label Jehovah's Witnesses as narrowly as this - belief in Satan as a literal figure is not an exclusively JW perception, and having engaged with JW's often enough in the past, both off and online, I can safely say that the movement is concerned with a wider remit.

I think the issue is more that the JW movement is essentially an apocalyptic movement, so for the past 150 years or so they have been trying to set themselves up as a body in final preparation for the end of the world as we know it - so the final battle between God and Satan certainly plays a major role in their theological perspective.

I agree.

However, I'm not sure I would claim all JW's are more concerned with Satan than God - you get all sorts of apples in all sorts of barrels, and I only ever met one who was more obsessed with demons and evil, than actually trying to be good before God.

Interesting. I've only met two who is actually trying to be good before God while the others appear to be more obsessed with demons and evil and Satan ruling the world and 'we need the new paradise on earth now, now,now!'

As a non-Christian I have often enjoyed engaging with JWs, because their clear insistance to referring to Bible passages for seeming every reason forces a deeper reading of the work. Even when in disagreement, the journey itself can be stimulating.

For that reason I will forever be indepted to JWs. My need to release myself from the constant reminder that the world will soon be destroyed by fire and that Satan is everywhere and that all those who are not in the 'truth' are ruled by Satan and the whole world and everything in it is wicked forced me to take it upon myself to seek a deeper reading of the Bible.

So overall, I'd ask for a little more respect to JW's as we afford to all denominations here - I appreciate that this creates something of a wide uncomfortable boat, but I figure any group that sees the Resurrection of Jesus as a core part of their belief as a common Christian platform to share - the details of disagreement can surely follow after?

Brian brought up an interesting point - that the JW movement is essentially an apocalyptic movement...
That is what makes JWs interesting to talk to. The one-sided thing is a turn-off though. I just happen to think there is more to Christianity then the book of Revelation. Maybe everything leads up to the point of Armegeddon even...
but you can't insist that the whole world is evil because they are not interested in picking up the sword and shield and fighting your fight. Throw out some biblical points if you like, much like many of us do, but the 'preaching to the choir' bit is annoying. Got some apocalyptic movement conversation - let us have it. I think it would be interesting. But giving the 'sermon' to me in bits and clippings and Watchtower and Awake! pastes is an insult to my intelligence and quest for truth. I prefer a conversation that is rich in understanding of the things learned; that is the kind of conversation that breaks barriers and builds truth and understanding where the divisions lie in Christianity.

[mee]

Originally Posted by truthseeker

Yeah. With a ten-foot spoon...

LOL well there is plenty to go around in fact its a feast
And Jehovah of armies will certainly make for all the peoples, in this mountain, a banquet of well-oiled dishes, a banquet of [wine kept on] the dregs, of well-oiled dishes filled with marrow, of [wine kept on] the dregs, filtered isaiah 25;6

Happy are those hungering and thirsting for righteousness, since they will be filled matthew 5;6

[mee]

Originally Posted by truthseeker

I agree.

Interesting. I've only met two who is actually trying to be good before God while the others appear to be more obsessed with demons and evil and Satan ruling the world and 'we need the new paradise on earth now, now,now!'

For that reason I will forever be indepted to JWs. My need to release myself from the constant reminder that the world will soon be destroyed by fire and that Satan is everywhere and that all those who are not in the 'truth' are ruled by Satan and the whole world and everything in it is wicked forced me to take it upon myself to seek a deeper reading of the Bible.


Brian brought up an interesting point - that the JW movement is essentially an apocalyptic movement...
That is what makes JWs interesting to talk to. The one-sided thing is a turn-off though. I just happen to think there is more to Christianity then the book of Revelation. Maybe everything leads up to the point of Armegeddon even...
but you can't insist that the whole world is evil because they are not interested in picking up the sword and shield and fighting your fight. Throw out some biblical points if you like, much like many of us do, but the 'preaching to the choir' bit is annoying. Got some apocalyptic movement conversation - let us have it. I think it would be interesting. But giving the 'sermon' to me in bits and clippings and Watchtower and Awake! pastes is an insult to my intelligence and quest for truth. I prefer a conversation that is rich in understanding of the things learned; that is the kind of conversation that breaks barriers and builds truth and understanding where the divisions lie in Christianity.

yes you are right there is more to the bible than the book of revelation . from Genesis to revelation it is about Jehovahs universal sovreignty and how it will bring peace to the earth , that is why JW have a bible education work going on all over the world with their home bible studies so people can gain an accurate knowledge not just clippings of information as you stated , if they want to of coarse ,