the Bible from a Jehovah's Witness perspective - Page 25

Quahom1 · 10-25-2006, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommy

Of course not. Just what the Bible says, "One" true God, the Father. I don't believe in the three God mystery if that is what you mean because the Bible doesn't elude to a mystery or make reference to man's doctrines.

That's interesting. Neither do Muslims or Jews believe. And to them Jesus isn't God either, just a man.

Dor · 10-25-2006, 05:58 PM

Yep interesting. Well it says All things were made by him and without him was not anything made that was made.

Now did he make himself. Cause either Jesus made himself. Or Jesus was not made. Or the Bible lies and everything you believe has to be questioned?

mee · 10-25-2006, 05:58 PM

[quote=BlaznFattyz]YHWH is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says YHWH God, "the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty." (Revelation 1:8)

"I am the first and the last, and besides me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6)

Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last
"'Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end…I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to your people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and offspring of David, and the bright morning star.'" (Revelation 22:12-16)

These are the things that the Son of God says, he who has his eyes like a fiery flame, and his feet are like fine copper." (Revelation 2:18)
And I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me…is eyes as a fiery flame; and his feet were like fine copper when glowing in a furnace…he laid his right hand upon me and said: "Do not be fearful. I am the First and the Last, and the living one; and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever." (Revelation 1:12-18)

Conclusion
YHWH God is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, and is the only God, and Jesus also says he is the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last. It is evidenced by scripture that Jesus is YHWH the Lord God Almighty.[/quote
Texts

in which a title that belongs to Jehovah is applied to Jesus Christ or is claimed to apply to Jesus

Alpha and Omega: To whom does this title properly belong? (1) At Revelation 1:8, its owner is said to be God, the Almighty. In verse 11 according to KJ, that title is applied to one whose description thereafter shows him to be Jesus Christ. But scholars recognize the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 11 to be spurious, and so it does not appear in RS, NE, JB, NAB, Dy. (2) Many translations of Revelation into Hebrew recognize that the one described in verse 8 is Jehovah, and so they restore the personal name of God there. See NW, 1984 Reference edition. (3) Revelation 21:6, 7 indicates that Christians who are spiritual conquerors are to be ‘sons’ of the one known as the Alpha and the Omega. That is never said of the relationship of spirit-anointed Christians to Jesus Christ. Jesus spoke of them as his ‘brothers.’ (Heb. 2:11; Matt. 12:50; 25:40) But those ‘brothers’ of Jesus are referred to as "sons of God." (Gal. 3:26; 4:6) (4) At Revelation 22:12, TEV inserts the name Jesus, so the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 13 is made to appear to apply to him. But the name Jesus does not appear there in Greek, and other translations do not include it. (5) At Revelation 22:13, the Alpha and Omega is also said to be "the first and the last," which expression is applied to Jesus at Revelation 1:17, 18. Similarly, the expression "apostle" is applied both to Jesus Christ and to certain ones of his followers. But that does not prove that they are the same person or are of equal rank, does it? (Heb. 3:1) So the evidence points to the conclusion that the title "Alpha and Omega" applies to Almighty God, the Father, not to the Son.

Quahom1 · 10-25-2006, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

Alpha and Omega: To whom does this title properly belong? (1) At Revelation 1:8, its owner is said to be God, the Almighty. In verse 11 according to KJ, that title is applied to one whose description thereafter shows him to be Jesus Christ. But scholars recognize the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 11 to be spurious, and so it does not appear in RS, NE, JB, NAB, Dy. (2) Many translations of Revelation into Hebrew recognize that the one described in verse 8 is Jehovah, and so they restore the personal name of God there. See NW, 1984 Reference edition. (3) Revelation 21:6, 7 indicates that Christians who are spiritual conquerors are to be ‘sons’ of the one known as the Alpha and the Omega. That is never said of the relationship of spirit-anointed Christians to Jesus Christ. Jesus spoke of them as his ‘brothers.’ (Heb. 2:11; Matt. 12:50; 25:40) But those ‘brothers’ of Jesus are referred to as "sons of God." (Gal. 3:26; 4:6) (4) At Revelation 22:12, TEV inserts the name Jesus, so the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 13 is made to appear to apply to him. But the name Jesus does not appear there in Greek, and other translations do not include it. (5) At Revelation 22:13, the Alpha and Omega is also said to be "the first and the last," which expression is applied to Jesus at Revelation 1:17, 18. Similarly, the expression "apostle" is applied both to Jesus Christ and to certain ones of his followers. But that does not prove that they are the same person or are of equal rank, does it? (Heb. 3:1) So the evidence points to the conclusion that the title "Alpha and Omega" applies to Almighty God, the Father, not to the Son.

LOL, what "scholars" recognize it to be "spurious"? Who are these "SCHOLARS"? You mean to tell me that men can determine what is correct and what is incorrect in the Bible? Who pray tell, gave them that athority?

Reasoning away things, doesn't make them true or false, only molded to fit the prerequisites of the reasoner.

Dor · 10-25-2006, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

As the bible tells us, Jesus sure is a mighty God.
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9;6-7
Or, "Mighty Divine One." Heb., ’El Gib·bohr´ (not ’El Shad·dai´ as in Ge 17:1, Sy, "Mighty God of times indefinite"; Lat., De´us for´tis.yes there is only one Almighty God and that is Jehovah.
"God Almighty." Heb., ’El Shad·dai´

WAIT ONE SECOND HERE.
I underlined something you put on here Mee. If Jesus is the first created being, why did they call him Eternal Father? And that is your own quote there.

aburaees · 10-25-2006, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

LOL, what "scholars" recognize it to be "spurious"? Who are these "SCHOLARS"?

From what I understand, the earliest manuscripts omit certain verses throughout the New Testament, and when those verses are found in later manuscripts their authenticity becomes somewhat doubtful... or spurious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

You mean to tell me that men can determine what is correct and what is incorrect in the Bible?

Well, it's not as if God wrote the Bible with his own hand. Men have been determining the contents of the Bible throughout it's development, if whole books can be included or excluded, then why not verses?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Who pray tell, gave them that athority?

Who gave Constantine authority over Arius? Who gave men the authority to exclude the book of Enoch, when it is quoted as scripture by James? It seems that Men gave Men the authority to determine the contents of the Bible... but I supopose the Spirit makes it clear which of these men were in the right.

.

tommy · 10-25-2006, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

That's interesting. Neither do Muslims or Jews believe. And to them Jesus isn't God either, just a man.

I agree with you here that Christ is not just a man. He is the Son of God. The Son cannot also be the Father unless we were to say that it is a mystery. It doesn't say in the Bible that God is a mystery as if he were a mystery we wouldn't be able to come to know a mystery accurately.

Prober · 10-25-2006, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommy

I agree with you here that Christ is not just a man. He is the Son of God. The Son cannot also be the Father unless we were to say that it is a mystery. It doesn't say in the Bible that God is a mystery as if he were a mystery we wouldn't be able to come to know a mystery accurately.

I'm a son, a father and a spirit.

Yes, it's a mystery. Deut 29:29 "...the secret things belong unto the Lord our God...".

BlaznFattyz · 10-26-2006, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prober

I'm a son, a father and a spirit.

wouldnt that mean you are three people, cuz 1+1+1 does not equal 1

-haha

Faithfulservant · 10-26-2006, 01:11 AM

Ok I would like the JW's to please answer me this...

If you had a child would he not be human?? If our creator the Father.. Jehovah God... had a Son by His Holy Spirit. what would that make Him? a human child??? Or like God? We reproduce what we are ... we dont reproduce another species...

Maybe look at the trinity of God like a family dynamic.. The Father.. the Spirit... The Son.. OR Man... Woman... Child

I dont want a cut and paste answer, mee.. please.

tommy · 10-26-2006, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prober

I'm a son, a father and a spirit.

Yes, it's a mystery. Deut 29:29 "...the secret things belong unto the Lord our God...".

Makes me think of John 5:19 "Therefore, in answer, Jesus went on to say to you, The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner". I completely agree that a perfect being cannot come from man but would you agree the two are seperate and distinct beings? This can be pointed to you too Faithfulservant as I do not disagree that the Father would create one like himself.

aburaees · 10-26-2006, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prober

I'm a son, a father and a spirit.

Yes, it's a mystery. Deut 29:29 "...the secret things belong unto the Lord our God...".

Ah, but YOU wouldn't be YOUR own father and YOUR own son at the same time... but then again, you're not God

mee · 10-26-2006, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

WAIT ONE SECOND HERE.
I underlined something you put on here Mee. If Jesus is the first created being, why did they call him Eternal Father? And that is your own quote there.

The title "Eternal Father" refers to the Messianic King’s power and authority to give humans the prospect of eternal life on earth. (John 11:25, 26) The legacy of our first parent, Adam, was death. Jesus, the last Adam, "became a life-giving spirit." (1 Corinthians 15:22, 45; Romans 5:12, 18) Just as Jesus, the Eternal Father, will live forever, so obedient mankind will enjoy the benefits of his fatherhood eternally.—Romans 6:9.

mee · 10-26-2006, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

LOL, what "scholars" recognize it to be "spurious"? Who are these "SCHOLARS"? You mean to tell me that men can determine what is correct and what is incorrect in the Bible? Who pray tell, gave them that athority?

Reasoning away things, doesn't make them true or false, only molded to fit the prerequisites of the reasoner.

those scholars who recognize it to be spurious, and it seems that there are plenty around as many translations do not include it.many people are after the pure word of God .

mee · 10-26-2006, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Ok I would like the JW's to please answer me this...

If you had a child would he not be human?? please.

if it was any think else other than human i think i would be one of a kind