the Bible from a Jehovah's Witness perspective

[Plaidback]

JW organization rejects flat out any chance of accepting truth that
Jesus Christ was the God,( or any other name you please to call God )
alive in flesh for 33 years.
This is John 14:6-7, Jesus to Thomas and others: " I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except trough me.
If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on,
you do know Him and have seen Him. "
And continue in 14:9-10
" Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say " show us the Father " ?. Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in Me ? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather , it is the Father,
living in Me, who is doing His work. "

OK, they ( JW's ) are not feeling that, that's fine. But then I wonder
knowing their Belief of People living here on Earth with the God, Forever ( whenever that happend ).
Now if Jesus wasn't the God, Who is then " Son of Man " that He refered in
Luke 21:27, 36 ?
Now, it is either Jesus was Liar, or " Lucky Ones " will witness two separate
Gods,(or I am not sure what would that mean), maybe Three, thanks to Jews.

Did I mention, my wife is JW

[mee]

Originally Posted by Plaidback

JW organization rejects flat out any chance of accepting truth that
Jesus Christ was the God,( or any other name you please to call God )
alive in flesh for 33 years.
This is John 14:6-7, Jesus to Thomas and others: " I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except trough me.
If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on,
you do know Him and have seen Him. "
And continue in 14:9-10
" Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say " show us the Father " ?. Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in Me ? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather , it is the Father,
living in Me, who is doing His work. "

OK, they ( JW's ) are not feeling that, that's fine. But then I wonder
knowing their Belief of People living here on Earth with the God, Forever ( whenever that happend ).
Now if Jesus wasn't the God, Who is then " Son of Man " that He refered in
Luke 21:27, 36 ?
Now, it is either Jesus was Liar, or " Lucky Ones " will witness two separate
Gods,(or I am not sure what would that mean), maybe Three, thanks to Jews.

Did I mention, my wife is JW

if your wife is one of JW then i am quite sure she can put you right about what we believe, you only have to ask her,

[Awesome Possum]

Originally Posted by mee

Jehovah became the accepted pronunciation of the divine name in English. This retains the essential elements of God’s name from the Hebrew original......as an example lets think about the name of Jesus

Would it be showing honor to Jesus to remove all mention of his name in the Bible and by removing it from our biblesreplace it with a mere title like "Teacher," or "Mediator"? Of course not, We can relate to Jesus when we use his name the way it is commonly pronounced in our language

In the New Testament, Jesus was referred to as "Lord" quite a bit and "God" on one occasion that I can think of off the top of my head (doubting Thomas seeing the Ressurrected Lord). I'd almost be willing to bet that Christ's preferred title is Lord or Master, just like you would call your teacher or professor by their title in school. Also, Christ is the Master Teacher...

Here's another twist that I'll throw in for kicks. Would it matter if we referred to Jesus as Joshua? It's basically the same name, isn't it, just derived from two different langauges? Both are correct, yet we use the Greek form Jesus as his English Equivalent. Interesting, eh?

I think it IS important how we refer to deity, but we shouldn't be hesitant to use their respectful titles either. There's much scriptural proof that it's okay to refer to God as Father...in fact, it could be even more endearing than calling him Jehovah or Elohim. We here on earth refer to our fathers as Dad and rarely call out to them by their name. It's because we have a bond to them that others do not. God, as father or our spirits, has that bond with us (actually moreso than our earthly fathers and mothers). These are just my feelings on the matter.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Awesome Possum

In the New Testament, Jesus was referred to as "Lord" quite a bit and "God" on one occasion that I can think of off the top of my head (doubting Thomas seeing the Ressurrected Lord). I'd almost be willing to bet that Christ's preferred title is Lord or Master, just like you would call your teacher or professor by their title in school. Also, Christ is the Master Teacher...

Here's another twist that I'll throw in for kicks. Would it matter if we referred to Jesus as Joshua? It's basically the same name, isn't it, just derived from two different langauges? Both are correct, yet we use the Greek form Jesus as his English Equivalent. Interesting, eh?

I think it IS important how we refer to deity, but we shouldn't be hesitant to use their respectful titles either. There's much scriptural proof that it's okay to refer to God as Father...in fact, it could be even more endearing than calling him Jehovah or Elohim. We here on earth refer to our fathers as Dad and rarely call out to them by their name. It's because we have a bond to them that others do not. God, as father or our spirits, has that bond with us (actually moreso than our earthly fathers and mothers). These are just my feelings on the matter.

yes i quite agree , they were known by various names should as the ones you mention , but we have to leave the original consonents in the bible just as they were in the original , we cannot leave them out or change them that would be changing the word of God thats why the NWT leaves them in so we are getting back to how Jehovah put it in the first place, and when Jesus , and the new testament bible writers ,refered back to the hebrew scriptures and spoke about the God in the hebrew scriptures then the name should be retained
And I have made your name known to them and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them...john 17;26

(Matthew 6:9) "YOU must pray, then, this way: "‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified


(John 17:6) "I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

yes i quite agree , they were known by various names should as the ones you mention , but we have to leave the original consonents in the bible just as they were in the original , we cannot leave them out or change them that would be changing the word of God thats why the NWT leaves them in so we are getting back to how Jehovah put it in the first place, and when Jesus , and the new testament bible writers ,refered back to the hebrew scriptures and spoke about the God in the hebrew scriptures then the name should be retained
And I have made your name known to them and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them...john 17;26

(Matthew 6:9) "YOU must pray, then, this way: "‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified



(John 17:6) "I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word

Hmm, the Aramaic term for father is "Abba". The consonants to be left in the Bible (which I agree), are not pronounced as "Jehovah". That is an English translation or interpretation. The actual sound is _____ that's right, soundless. God's name was and is not mentioned out loud. The four letters are YHWH, but the word is not supposed to be spoken at all.

my thoughts

v/r

Q

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Hmm, the Aramaic term for father is "Abba". The consonants to be left in the Bible (which I agree), are not pronounced as "Jehovah". That is an English translation or interpretation. The actual sound is _____ that's right, soundless. God's name was and is not mentioned out loud. The four letters are YHWH, but the word is not supposed to be spoken at all.

my thoughts

v/r

Q

i agree on the yhwh spellling, i know hebrews at some time, maybe even now, know the pronunciation of his real name. jehovah is in very old latin speaking bibles, but thats a variation of the correct and original jewish way just like jesus is a variation. although gods name not being spoken at all? i dont think god told us not to call his real name, any reason not to is probably man-made. that goes back to what i was saying earlier, different languages are going to change the original jewish title in to something else in their native language. so the only thing that concerns me is whats behind the different pronunciation. jw's "jehovah" has different characterstics and meanings as mainstream christianity's "god" or islams "allah".

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

i agree on the yhwh spellling, i know hebrews at some time, maybe even now, know the pronunciation of his real name. jehovah is in very old latin speaking bibles, but thats a variation of the correct and original jewish way just like jesus is a variation. although gods name not being spoken at all? i dont think god told us not to call his real name, any reason not to is probably man-made. that goes back to what i was saying earlier, different languages are going to change the original jewish title in to something else in their native language. so the only thing that concerns me is whats behind the different pronunciation. jw's "jehovah" has different characterstics and meanings as mainstream christianity's "god" or islams "allah".

Jehovah is nothing latin. It is English. Blaze, the Jews created the name, or had the name written down for them. They never speak the "Name of God". They don't even whisper the "Name of God", but once a year, within the inner chambers of the temple, and only by a "priest". My point is the term "jehovah" does not exist in the earlier testaments or scripture. Yahweh, was how it was pronounced by the gentiles, to the chagrin of the Jews. Jehovah is a modern concept, and a *******ization of the name of God.

Hey, I call a spade a spade. JWs are only a century note and fifty bucks old...they don't have all the answers.

It doesn't matter how you spin it...YHWH does not spell Jehovah...not even close, yet the JWs insist that the "FOUR Letters" be put back into context into the bible. Fine. Still does not spell or pronounce "Jehovah". If so, then JWs should be calling God YHWH, or perhaps Yahweh.

I don't know...what do you say about this Mee?

v/r

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[BlaznFattyz]

let me clear that up, i was looking at some old 50's spanish bible and the word jehovah was in it, thats all i meant. and that was just a translation of the english king james bible, not the latin bible. thanx for pointing that out. but i did go look up the oldest Latin bible the Latin Vulgate that many spanish bibles are translated from and instead jehovah it uses adonai in the following verse.

This is the Latin Bible, or 'Vulgate'. Translated from the Hebrew and Aramaic by Jerome between 382 and 405 CE:
exodus 6:3
"qui apparui Abraham Isaac et Iacob in Deo omnipotente et nomen meum Adonai non indicavi eis"

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Hmm, the Aramaic term for father is "Abba". The consonants to be left in the Bible (which I agree), are not pronounced as "Jehovah". That is an English translation or interpretation. The actual sound is _____ that's right, soundless. God's name was and is not mentioned out loud. The four letters are YHWH, but the word is not supposed to be spoken at all.

my thoughts

v/r

Q

no where in the bible does it say that Gods name should be soundless in fact quite the opposite ,the bible tells us that he wants his name declared , the people who claimed to worship the true God made the rule up themselves that Gods name should not be spoken imbroidering the word of God by going one step more than God intended .yes we should not take up the name of God in a worthless way ,to use it in a disrespectful way, but no where does Gods word the bible say we should not make it known
That people may know that you, whose name is JehovahYou alone are the most High over all the earth....psalm 83;18....

But, in fact, for this cause I have kept you in existence, for the sake of showing you my power and in order to have my name declared in all the earth...Exodus 9;16

(Malachi 1:11) "For from the sun’s rising even to its setting my name will be great among the nations, and in every place sacrificial smoke will be made, a presentation will be made to my name, even a clean gift; because my name will be great among the nations," Jehovah of armies has said

(Romans 9:17) For the Scripture says to Phar´aoh: "For this very cause I have let you remain, that in connection with you I may show my power, and that my name may be declared in all the earth

It is true that the most complete manuscript copies of the Septuagint now known do consistently follow the practice of substituting the Greek words Ky´ri·os (Lord) or The·os´ (God) for the Tetragrammaton. But these major manuscripts date back only as far as the fourth and fifth centuries C.E. More ancient copies, though in fragmentary form, have been discovered that prove that the earliest copies of the Septuagint did contain the divine name

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Jehovah is nothing latin. It is English. Blaze, the Jews created the name, or had the name written down for them. They never speak the "Name of God". They don't even whisper the "Name of God", but once a year, within the inner chambers of the temple, and only by a "priest". My point is the term "jehovah" does not exist in the earlier testaments or scripture. Yahweh, was how it was pronounced by the gentiles, to the chagrin of the Jews. Jehovah is a modern concept, and a *******ization of the name of God.

Hey, I call a spade a spade. JWs are only a century note and fifty bucks old...they don't have all the answers.

It doesn't matter how you spin it...YHWH does not spell Jehovah...not even close, yet the JWs insist that the "FOUR Letters" be put back into context into the bible. Fine. Still does not spell or pronounce "Jehovah". If so, then JWs should be calling God YHWH, or perhaps Yahweh.

I don't know...what do you say about this Mee?

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The truth is, nobody knows for sure how the name of God was originally pronounced. Why not? Well, the first language used in writing the Bible was Hebrew, and when the Hebrew language was written down, the writers wrote only consonants—not vowels. Hence, when the inspired writers wrote God’s name, they naturally did the same thing and wrote only the consonants.

While ancient Hebrew was an everyday spoken language, this presented no problem. The pronunciation of the Name was familiar to the Israelites and when they saw it in writing they supplied the vowels without thinking (just as, for an English reader, the abbreviation "Ltd." represents "Limited" and "bldg." represents "building").

Two things happened to change this situation. First, a superstitious idea arose among the Jews that it was wrong to say the divine name out loud; so when they came to it in their Bible reading they uttered the Hebrew word ’Adho·nai´ ("Sovereign Lord"). Further, as time went by, the ancient Hebrew language itself ceased to be spoken in everyday conversation, and in this way the original Hebrew pronunciation of God’s name was eventually forgotten.

In order to ensure that the pronunciation of the Hebrew language as a whole would not be lost, Jewish scholars of the second half of the first millennium C.E. invented a system of points to represent the missing vowels, and they placed these around the consonants in the Hebrew Bible. Thus, both vowels and consonants were written down, and the pronunciation as it was at that time was preserved.

When it came to God’s name, instead of putting the proper vowel signs around it, in most cases they put other vowel signs to remind the reader that he should say ’Adho·nai´. From this came the spelling Iehouah, and, eventually, Jehovah became the accepted pronunciation of the divine name in English. This retains the essential elements of God’s name from the Hebrew original.

[BlaznFattyz]

since we are talking about god, the question is "should gods name ever be changed from its original langauge? think about it. unlike "house" which in spanish is "casa", but we are not talking about these things, we are talking about gods name.
1917 hebrew bible "and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name YHWH I made Me not known to them."

and once we know the true name (and i would believe hebrew scholars before i would believe some dude from pennsylvania) then is it disrespectful to use his name constantly? shouldnt we be praying in jesus' name?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

since we are talking about god, the question is "should gods name ever be changed from its original langauge? think about it. unlike "house" which in spanish is "casa", but we are not talking about these things, we are talking about gods name.
1917 hebrew bible "and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name YHWH I made Me not known to them."

and once we know the true name (and i would believe hebrew scholars before i would believe some dude from pennsylvania) then is it disrespectful to use his name constantly? shouldnt we be praying in jesus' name?

Good point. And yes it does state God's name is not to be used or abused. His titles are a different matter, but His name is sacred.

When I hear the word "Jehovah", I think of a title for God...I do not think of it as God's name. YHWH, is the name of God as originally written, and I do not speak the name, in public.

To call one by name implies possesion or ownership of a sort. It is a familiarity that is reserved for those who wish to allow one to "own" a piece of them. For example, I address each person I meet by their familial name, until I am invited to call them by their personal name.

In my occupation, I do not allow subordinates to address me in public by my personal name. Nor do I take it upon myself to address my superiors by their personal names. Even if given license to do so...for the sake of those around me, I decline.

Why? There is power in a name. Granting authority to use that personal name is granting authority to give away some of that power.

Hence, Jehovah is not God's name. It is merely a title, like so many other titles He goes by. Just like Jesus. That was His name as a man, but His title is Christ (Christos), Messaiah, Savior. When we call upon Jesus, we call upon the part of Him that is Man, but when we call upon Him as "Christ", we are calling upon God, who's title is "Savior".

I think that is about as clear a case as can be made. YHWH never invited us to call Him by His personal name.

my thoughts

v/r

Q

[Awesome Possum]

And think about this... The Priesthood after the order of the Son was eventually named the Melchizedek Priesthood to prevent overuse of name of deity. So even the title, "The Son" as in "The Son of God" was a high title of Christ. Jehovah, being God's name, is probably even more sacred than the title of "Son of God"...I would say God's prophets knew best and if they tried to not overuse the name of deity, it was probably a good idea. Some things we men just cannot understand right now, but we can be guided by the Holy Ghost to know what's right.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Good point. And yes it does state God's name is not to be used or abused. His titles are a different matter, but His name is sacred.

When I hear the word "Jehovah", I think of a title for God...I do not think of it as God's name. YHWH, is the name of God as originally written, and I do not speak the name, in public.

To call one by name implies possesion or ownership of a sort. It is a familiarity that is reserved for those who wish to allow one to "own" a piece of them. For example, I address each person I meet by their familial name, until I am invited to call them by their personal name.

In my occupation, I do not allow subordinates to address me in public by my personal name. Nor do I take it upon myself to address my superiors by their personal names. Even if given license to do so...for the sake of those around me, I decline.

Why? There is power in a name. Granting authority to use that personal name is granting authority to give away some of that power.

Hence, Jehovah is not God's name. It is merely a title, like so many other titles He goes by. Just like Jesus. That was His name as a man, but His title is Christ (Christos), Messaiah, Savior. When we call upon Jesus, we call upon the part of Him that is Man, but when we call upon Him as "Christ", we are calling upon God, who's title is "Savior".

I think that is about as clear a case as can be made. YHWH never invited us to call Him by His personal name.

my thoughts

v/r

Q

so then, would you think it was right to take away from the bible what God put there in the first place (the consonants)? because many translaters have done this, and changed the word of God to there own thoughts , the Tetragrammaton(YHWH) Should be retained,but no they have taken it out and put (Dominus)Lord instead, but thankfully there have been ones who have tried to put it right down through time
The name first appeared in an English Bible in 1530, when William Tyndale published a translation of the first five books of the Bible. In this he included the name of God, usually spelled Iehouah, in several verses, and in a note in this edition he wrote: "Iehovah is God’s name

From this the practice arose of using Jehovah’s name in just a few verses and writing "LORD" or "GOD" in most other places where the Tetragrammaton occurs in the Hebrew text ,yes there have always been some around who are more concerned with getting back to what the truth of Gods word is rather than going along with false things.

In 1611 what became the most widely used English translation, the Authorized Version, was published. In this, the name appeared four times in the main text. (Exodus 6:3; Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 12:2; 26:4) "Jah," a poetic abbreviation of the name, appeared in Psalm 68:4. And the name appeared in full in place-names such as "Jehovah-jireh." (Genesis 22:14; Exodus 17:15; Judges 6:24) However, following the example of Tyndale, the translators in most instances substituted "LORD" or "GOD" for God’s name. But if God’s name could appear in four verses, why could it not appear in all the other thousands of verses that contain it in the original Hebrew? still its good to know that there is now a bible around that does include it throughout (NWT) and other bibles as well . But most are translated with LORD orGOD .so the KJV has the name Jehovah in it but not as often as it should, i wonder what Jehovah God thinks about that ,removing his name

Some widely used versions that include the name are the Valera translation (Spanish, published in 1602), the Almeida version (Portuguese, published in 1681), the original Elberfelder version (German, published in 1871), as well as the American Standard Version (English, published in 1901). Some translations, notably The Jerusalem Bible, also consistently use God’s name but with the spelling Yahweh

[mee]

Originally Posted by Awesome Possum

And think about this... The Priesthood after the order of the Son was eventually named the Melchizedek Priesthood to prevent overuse of name of deity. So even the title, "The Son" as in "The Son of God" was a high title of Christ. Jehovah, being God's name, is probably even more sacred than the title of "Son of God"...I would say God's prophets knew best and if they tried to not overuse the name of deity, it was probably a good idea. Some things we men just cannot understand right now, but we can be guided by the Holy Ghost to know what's right.

so you agree that Jehovah is Gods name then? and yes this is a most sacred name not many do give it the respect he deserves ,still the bible tells us that he will sanctify his great name
And I shall certainly sanctify my great name, which was being profaned among the nations, which YOU profaned in the midst of them; and the nations will have to know that I am Jehovah,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘when I am sanctified among YOU before their eyes.... Ezekiel 36;23

"‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth....matthew 6;9-10

Yes, God’s Kingdom in the hands of Jesus Christ will sanctify God’s name and also bring good conditions to this earth. It will eliminate wickedness and take away war, crime, famine, sickness and death.—Psalm 46:8, 9; Isaiah 11:9; 25:6; 33:24; Revelation 21:3, 4...bring it on