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Old 09-20-2005, 04:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

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Originally Posted by Virtual_Cliff
I have met other Christians whose faith is based more on their fear of the devil than on their love of God. This is not good.

Take the advice of St Paul and fill your mind with thoughts of good, beautiful, noble, inspiring things. Turn your back on the dark side. Just don't go there.
What a profound statement, Virtual Cliff. Interesting that you brought something to my attention. BTW, it's nice to see you around - haven't seen you in a while.

I have met other Christians whose faith is based more on their fear of the devil than on their love of God as well. Most of them were/are Jehovah's Witnesses. These people seem to be more in contact with demonic forces more than any other denomination of Christianity that I've known. My grandmother spoke of the same things that E99 speak of. Not to say that JW draws demons, but that it is a religion which is a sort of 'safe haven' for those who have a good healthy fear of the devil. Hmmm. I guess that is why I have such a problem with JWs. Guess it all depends on how you view the spirit world.

I've always thought that if you carry a demon with you, then it can attract other demons. Interesting.
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Old 09-20-2005, 05:01 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

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Originally Posted by truthseeker
What a profound statement, Virtual Cliff. BTW, it's nice to see you around - haven't seen you in a while.

I have met other Christians whose faith is based more on their fear of the devil than on their love of God as well. Most of them were/are Jehovah's Witnesses.
LOL why single out satanists the bible tells me that the whole world is in the power of the wicked one(satan the devil) (1 John 5;19)so if the whole world is under that power then that includes most things goverments, religion , ruling powers etc, ect ,thats why true christians have to stick to Gods word the bible so they are not led along with the world. so i would look at it rather differently to you, my faith is based on my love for God and his ways ,and trying my best to live in line with them . but also realizing that satans aim is to destroy a true christians faith. remember that satan has great anger because he knows he has a short period of time left before he is put out of action for good
So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. ..rev 12;9not much time left for his rulership on the earth because he will be put out the way soon


(Romans 16:20) For his part, the God who gives peace will crush Satan under YOUR feet shortly. May the undeserved kindness of our Lord Jesus be with YOU.

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Old 09-20-2005, 07:22 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

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Originally Posted by mee
LOL why single out satanists the bible tells me that the whole world is in the power of the wicked one(satan the devil) (1 John 5;19)so if the whole world is under that power then that includes most things goverments, religion , ruling powers etc, ect ,thats why true christians have to stick to Gods word the bible so they are not led along with the world. so i would look at it rather differently to you, my faith is based on my love for God and his ways ,and trying my best to live in line with them . but also realizing that satans aim is to destroy a true christians faith. remember that satan has great anger because he knows he has a short period of time left before he is put out of action for good
So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. ..rev 12;9not much time left for his rulership on the earth because he will be put out the way soon


(Romans 16:20) For his part, the God who gives peace will crush Satan under YOUR feet shortly. May the undeserved kindness of our Lord Jesus be with YOU.

Please excuse me. I didn't mean to imply that all those involved in the JW faith is based more on a fear of the devil than their love for God. Nonetheless we certainly do have a tendency to belong to organizations that best suit our interests.
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Old 09-22-2005, 09:49 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

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Originally Posted by truthseeker
Please excuse me. I didn't mean to imply that all those involved in the JW faith is based more on a fear of the devil than their love for God. Nonetheless we certainly do have a tendency to belong to organizations that best suit our interests.

All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work 2 timothy 3;16 .....the reason i stick to the bible is because it is beneficial to me and JW stick to the bible thats why when the bible says the whole world is in the power of satan the wicked one 1 john 5;19 we take note of that, and put on the complete suit of armour from God

Put on the complete suit of armor from God that YOU may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil; Ephesians 6;11

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Old 09-23-2005, 05:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

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Originally Posted by mee

All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work 2 timothy 3;16 .....the reason i stick to the bible is because it is beneficial to me and JW stick to the bible thats why when the bible says the whole world is in the power of satan the wicked one 1 john 5;19 we take note of that, and put on the complete suit of armour from God

Put on the complete suit of armor from God that YOU may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil; Ephesians 6;11

The whole world is not in the power of Satan, the wicked one. If this were true, then the world and man are already lost. The way you make it sound, is like earth is the Alamo, and we are so outnumbered that there is no hope, so we are going to go down in a glorious last battle (though hopeless and futile). That is not however, what the Bible tells us. Quite the opposite in fact. The Lord is the ultimate victor, and we are His prize. He will spare no effort to win and keep us from the enemy. That is the news the Bible presents to us.

Second: Every good General knows that soldiers, no matter how well armored, will fatigue with constant battle. Morale drops, and the fighting spirit falters. A demoralized army never won a war. Hence the wise General sees to it that His troops are rotated out of battle periodically, for R&R. Where they are sent is a place of safety, peace and healing. Relatively speaking there is no evil there, hence the enemy has absolutely no control there. None.

If humans understand this battle tactic, how much more God understands it. The whole world is not under Satan's control because he cannot be all places at once. He roams to and fro, devouring what he can. But unlike him, God is everywhere all at once. Where Satan is present, God is present, and where Satan is absent, God is still present.

But the Lord provides respite for His soldiers, safe from the clutches of the enemy.

Even solidiers of God need to be able to "exhale" and rest. Your philosophy does not allow for this. Therein (I think) lies a fatal flaw.

Finally, those who live by the sword, die by the sword (any sword). That too is Biblical.

Do you reach out to people who are not of the persuasion that you feel? No. You can't, by the very precepts of your faith. To do so is to set you up to be potentially tainted by those who are unworthy, or fallen, or faithless. Yours is not an all encompassing faith, but rather a self centered faith. You first, all others second.

Wars are not won by standing watch in a tower. They are won by going out into the field and routing the enemy. Satan is pleased that some remain within their own little ramparts surrounding their own little "towns and castles". He doesn't have to fight with them. He just cordons off that part of the country side, until he has the time and resources to "lay siege" to that hold out.

While he grows stronger, those stuck in watchtowers atrophy and grow weak.

This life is a chess game...sometimes bold moves are required. Sometimes defense is required. But no chess game has ever been won on defense alone.

I'm not knocking you Mee. I'm pointing out that there are flaws in your "armor", and if I can see them...who else can?

v/r

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Old 09-23-2005, 05:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

"Wars are not won by standing watch in a tower. They are won by going out into the field and routing the enemy. Satan is pleased that some remain within their own little ramparts surrounding their own little "towns and castles". He doesn't have to fight with them. He just cordons off that part of the country side, until he has the time and resources to "lay siege" to that hold out."



I 100% agree with this quote... You cannot sit and hope it goes away or that your other allies or someone will cover you and fend of the enemy. Only victory is that of a brave and selflessness "group" not always but sometimes an individual but very rare. A battlefield is in ways like life and also like faith, if you want something you have to get out there and grab it and do what you can. laying back and waiting can cause you less chances to be effective and 'fresh' you must always be alert and stand never run nor hide. It is for you and the others of your "church/family/country/religion/unit/and so on." Indeed it takes others and it takes bold moves now and then.... I am not sure if this fits in to this debate lol, *walks off.*
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Old 09-23-2005, 06:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

"All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." Matthew 28:18. (Jesus speaking)

so i would think the whole world is something to be considered as to 'who & what' the whole world is & find the balance of what the whole of the matter is trying to say.
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Old 09-23-2005, 07:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

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Originally Posted by Bandit
"All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." Matthew 28:18. (Jesus speaking)

so i would think the whole world is something to be considered as to 'who & what' the whole world is & find the balance of what the whole of the matter is trying to say.
Interesting. By your own reference Bandit buddy, you simply shut down the "Satan rules all", theory. Oh, I gotta see how this ends up in conjunction and not in conflict with what we've be just told....

Cheers 17th! Thank you for acknowledging my point! That doesn't happen often...

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Old 09-23-2005, 10:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

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Originally Posted by Quahom1
The whole world is not in the power of Satan, the wicked one. If this were true, then the world and man are already lost. The way you make it sound, is like earth is the Alamo, and we are so outnumbered that there is no hope, so we are going to go down in a glorious last battle (though hopeless and futile). That is not however, what the Bible tells us. Quite the opposite in fact. The Lord is the ultimate victor, and we are His prize. He will spare no effort to win and keep us from the enemy. That is the news the Bible presents to us.

Second: Every good General knows that soldiers, no matter how well armored, will fatigue with constant battle. Morale drops, and the fighting spirit falters. A demoralized army never won a war. Hence the wise General sees to it that His troops are rotated out of battle periodically, for R&R. Where they are sent is a place of safety, peace and healing. Relatively speaking there is no evil there, hence the enemy has absolutely no control there. None.

If humans understand this battle tactic, how much more God understands it. The whole world is not under Satan's control because he cannot be all places at once. He roams to and fro, devouring what he can. But unlike him, God is everywhere all at once. Where Satan is present, God is present, and where Satan is absent, God is still present.

But the Lord provides respite for His soldiers, safe from the clutches of the enemy.

Even solidiers of God need to be able to "exhale" and rest. Your philosophy does not allow for this. Therein (I think) lies a fatal flaw.

Finally, those who live by the sword, die by the sword (any sword). That too is Biblical.

Do you reach out to people who are not of the persuasion that you feel? No. You can't, by the very precepts of your faith. To do so is to set you up to be potentially tainted by those who are unworthy, or fallen, or faithless. Yours is not an all encompassing faith, but rather a self centered faith. You first, all others second.

Wars are not won by standing watch in a tower. They are won by going out into the field and routing the enemy. Satan is pleased that some remain within their own little ramparts surrounding their own little "towns and castles". He doesn't have to fight with them. He just cordons off that part of the country side, until he has the time and resources to "lay siege" to that hold out.

While he grows stronger, those stuck in watchtowers atrophy and grow weak.

This life is a chess game...sometimes bold moves are required. Sometimes defense is required. But no chess game has ever been won on defense alone.

I'm not knocking you Mee. I'm pointing out that there are flaws in your "armor", and if I can see them...who else can?

v/r

Q
so if the whole world is not in the power of the wicked one satan the devil ,are you saying that you choose to ignore what the bible the word of God is telling us, ? we all know that the bible tells us that satan will be destroyed by God, so all is not lost as you say,because the bible always comes true regardless of what we as humans think. the bible does not say we are going to go down the bible tells us that we can live in a new world with no influence of satan ,we will only go down if we choose to go down, Jehovah God does not want any to be destroyed but wants all to repent
Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance 2 peter 3;9 Yes you are quite right to say that the Lord Jesus christ is the victor in fact he is a warrior king

"Look! a white horse; and the one seated upon it had a bow; and a crown was given him, and he went forth conquering and to complete his conquest."—REVELATION 6:2. make no mistake about it this warrior king will destroy all of his fathers enemies , satan is not just one rebel there are many angelic followers of satan ,they are the demons, and Jesus has already cast them out of the heavens ...rev 12;9 yes you are right Jesus will put all of Gods enemies out of the way eventually ,but at this point in time even Gods people have to beware of satans crafty acts just as the bible tells us

"Oppose the Devil, and he will flee from you."—JAMES 4:7

(Matthew 4:10) Then Jesus said to him: "Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service......yes even Jesus had to oppose the devil the same as we do


(Luke 4:13) So the Devil, having concluded all the temptation, retired from him until another convenient time.........so yes he is roaming around looking for a gap in the armour , but only we ourselves can make sure that we have all of the armour on ,and then satan cannot touch us ,because we are using the armour that God supplies.the fact is that we are at rest if we take on the armour from God .did Jesus let his armour down ,no i dont think he did , thats why Jesus was victorious .....do i reach out to others ? well i know one thing ,if i did not take to heart what the bible tells me i would have no interest about telling others about the wonderful hope for the future , and i would not bother to tell others about Gods heavenly kingdom goverment. someone told me about the bible promises and that reached out to me , and i feel that is the best news anyone could have. we are only tainted by others if we want to be tainted , i am not quite sure why you think that JW are self centered, if they were self centered they would keep the good news to themselves , but the fact that they are known the world over for the preaching of the good news of the kingdom speaks for its self .i would say that wars are won by keeping a lookout for the enemy then we are not caught of guard its only those who fall asleep and miss the signs that get caught out, so Gods word the bible has all of the prophecies that are being fullfilled in these last days but the question is do we recognize the signs?



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Old 09-24-2005, 12:39 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

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Originally Posted by mee
so if the whole world is not in the power of the wicked one satan the devil ,are you saying that you choose to ignore what the bible the word of God is telling us, ? we all know that the bible tells us that satan will be destroyed by God, so all is not lost as you say,because the bible always comes true regardless of what we as humans think. the bible does not say we are going to go down the bible tells us that we can live in a new world with no influence of satan ,we will only go down if we choose to go down, Jehovah God does not want any to be destroyed but wants all to repent
Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance 2 peter 3;9 Yes you are quite right to say that the Lord Jesus christ is the victor in fact he is a warrior king



Hi Mee

according to your doctrine, the wicked one had power over the whole world until 1914, when Jesus took the throne? so i guess that means the wicked one has power over YOU too. Jesus has more power than the devil & Jesus has more power than YOU. do YOU see what I mean? if Jesus took the throne in 1914 then the wicked one has no power over YOU.
it sounds better if YOU say, the devil only has the power YOU allow him to have over YOU.

below is the original question Mee:
a yes or no or simple explanation of how it makes YOU feel, would probably suffice.
have a nice weekend Mee.

Quote:
Now I was reading the thread on Lucifarianism, and there were some links to some Satanic sites, and when I visted one it felt like my stomach sank and my heart started racing and I started to feel almost light headed and a little sick, now has anyone ever experienced this before and can anyone explain why or how this happens?
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Old 09-24-2005, 09:59 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

as i dont believe in the hellfire doctrine how can i sell hell and brimstome? as for judging others that is not my place to do that we can only judge our selves after taking in Gods words in the bible and apply them to ourselves ,that is what i try to do for my self, i never judge any one i only give out Good news of better things promised in the bible, yes you are right i know nothing about you or anyone on this board the same way that you know nothing about me , i feel that you are judging me as a person , because i talk about the promises in the bible, i am not here on this board to assume any thing about you only to talk about the bible, is this not a christian site .i wonder why you think that i am giving Jehovahs name a bad taste, are not the promises in the bible part of Gods purpose and after all he did tell us to make know the kingdom

Last edited by Quahom1; 09-25-2005 at 05:26 AM. Reason: Inappropriate response from Q for this thread
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Old 09-24-2005, 10:05 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit
Hi Mee

according to your doctrine, the wicked one had power over the whole world until 1914, when Jesus took the throne? so i guess that means the wicked one has power over YOU too. Jesus has more power than the devil & Jesus has more power than YOU. do YOU see what I mean? if Jesus took the throne in 1914 then the wicked one has no power over YOU.
it sounds better if YOU say, the devil only has the power YOU allow him to have over YOU.

below is the original question Mee:
a yes or no or simple explanation of how it makes YOU feel, would probably suffice.
have a nice weekend Mee.
the wicked one is still in power untill he is destroyed by God . in 1914 he was cast out of heaven , upuntill that date he had access still , but not after that date ,the wicked one has no power over Gods heavenly kingdom after that date . but satan is on death row and he knows it
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Old 09-24-2005, 06:11 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

1914? it is rather disturbing to me that when a jw speaks in a christian forum that an outsider might see parallels in a jw's and christian's posts, but when looked under a microscope, you see that we are not really talking about the same things. confusing gods word and misleading are very disturbing.

"This unique government rules over the earth from heaven. Jehovah fulfilled His promise to Jesus that he would rule in 1914. When Jesus became king, Satan and his evil angels were kicked out of heaven and sent to inhabit the earth. This is how the Jehovah's Witnesses explain the wars, crime increases, and other "bad" things which are happening in our world today."

"Failed Prophecies - Jehovah's Witnesses have calculated many dates which were meant to invite extraordinary events. Five times the start of Armageddon has been predicted by Jehovah's Witnesses; their predictions were proven wrong each of those times. They still hold fast to the date of 1914 in which Jesus Christ returned invisibly to earth, but admit erring in their calculations (1914, 1918, 1920, 1925, and 1941) for Armageddon. (Kephart and Zellner, p. 291, Religious Tolerance Page). Effects of Failed Prophecies from a Sociological Perspective."

satan has tempted man since the beginning of our creation. as man gets used to sinning it becomes easier to do. satan is trying hard to deceive many. however satan is limited to what he can do at the moment, because of the holy spirit and the work of the church. when the rapture of the church takes place, then "all hell will break loose". satan and the antichrist will have no one to stop them, accept for jesus' glorious return. jesus is lord.
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Old 09-24-2005, 07:12 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

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Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz
1914? it is rather disturbing to me that when a jw speaks in a christian forum that an outsider might see parallels in a jw's and christian's posts, but when looked under a microscope, you see that we are not really talking about the same things. confusing gods word and misleading are very disturbing.

"This unique government rules over the earth from heaven. Jehovah fulfilled His promise to Jesus that he would rule in 1914. When Jesus became king, Satan and his evil angels were kicked out of heaven and sent to inhabit the earth. This is how the Jehovah's Witnesses explain the wars, crime increases, and other "bad" things which are happening in our world today."

"Failed Prophecies - Jehovah's Witnesses have calculated many dates which were meant to invite extraordinary events. Five times the start of Armageddon has been predicted by Jehovah's Witnesses; their predictions were proven wrong each of those times. They still hold fast to the date of 1914 in which Jesus Christ returned invisibly to earth, but admit erring in their calculations (1914, 1918, 1920, 1925, and 1941) for Armageddon. (Kephart and Zellner, p. 291, Religious Tolerance Page). Effects of Failed Prophecies from a Sociological Perspective."

satan has tempted man since the beginning of our creation. as man gets used to sinning it becomes easier to do. satan is trying hard to deceive many. however satan is limited to what he can do at the moment, because of the holy spirit and the work of the church. when the rapture of the church takes place, then "all hell will break loose". satan and the antichrist will have no one to stop them, accept for jesus' glorious return. jesus is lord.
we still hold fast to 1914 as being the date that Jesus was made king in the heavenly kingdom goverment, we do not believe that Jesus is invisibly on the earth ,but we do believe that his kingship in 1914 was invisible to us on the earth , big difference , we believe he is ruling in the heavenly kingdom goverment right now ,but it is invisible because it is in heaven,
Jesus gave his disciples ‘the sign of his presence and of the conclusion of the system of things.’ The sign to identify his invisible presence included great wars, food shortages, earthquakes, the appearance of false prophets, an increase of lawlessness, and severe pestilences. Such events were to be expected, for the ouster of Satan the Devil would mean "woe for the earth." The Devil has come down to the vicinity of the earth "having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time." In addition, the sign includes the preaching of the good news of the Kingdom "in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations."—Matthew 24:3-14; Revelation 12:12; Luke 21:7-19.

Like the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle that fit together, the things that Jesus prophesied have occurred. Since the outbreak of World War I in 1914, we have seen the composite evidence of the invisible presence of Jesus Christ. He is reigning as the King of God’s Kingdom and is wielding tremendous influence

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Old 09-24-2005, 08:02 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: A question to all Christians, anyone can answer though.

there have been plenty of wars before 1914; greek, roman, egyptian, assyrian, persian, european, etc.. the claim of 1914 is as ridiculous as all other failed dates given by the jw as biblical, especially since there is no scripture to support it.
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