The Definition of Life

Virtual_Cliff · 01-10-2005, 10:34 PM

This is a question that came up in another discussion: What is the definition of life? We all learn at school a list of characteristics of living organisms on our planet - things like procreation, growth etc - but even this list is inconclusive when applied to viruses, for example. This is still not a definition though. This matters because we are spending a lot of time and money speculating about life on other planets when we do not even know what life is. There may be life on earth that we haven't noticed. Why should life on other planets even remotely resemble the product of our biosphere? How do we recognise life? (The first person to mention Spock buys the next round!)

Ciel · 01-11-2005, 06:59 PM

Greetings Virtual Cliff,

As you say "There may be life on earth that we haven't noticed,"
Yes, there is a life of electromagnetic colour form and force beyond the wildest dreams of any sci-fi scholar. And it covers all realms in attendance to the formation that we are and know as life. Many have experienced the seeing of coloured lights and vibrations in heightened awareness and there exists a state of consciousness from defined and continual elevated awareness where this is correspondent to life as one may be witness to every day life on this planet. Yet beyond innovation of the mind for it is also intelligence, creational and sustainable.
Now I hear Blue behind me saying, "How do you prove this in rational form?"
Well science can prove many things that we do not see with the naked eye, elements of light and energy fields of quantum capacity. Many years ago I was granted the gift of seeing and communicating on these levels, with a furtherance to understanding their reason and many dimensions, it is as a bridge between God and this earth, and all that we are.
On this forum I am aware through recent postings that the norm is a far more acceptable policy, and therefore have kept low profile, in all humbleness this is not a proclamation that I set myself above this, more so that something is in all awe and wonder with us constantly. And above us certainly.

aquaris · 01-12-2005, 10:00 AM

Ceil I have personally and very briefly encountered that state....But it has not repeated itself...
By the way... can you tell us more about that gift.... PM me about it...

anyway..... the other day I was visiting some site....and there was this excellent explanations...
some of it goes like this....
We precieve the world or reality....throgh our five/six senses.....
But those senses are nothing but electrical impulses ...generated in our brain...through the stimulus of those senses...
for example.... when we see... the image...from the object passes through our eye lens and then is converted into electircal impulses... some part of Brain then translates them as the object...so in reality....if brain is unable to translate that....into that object....we wont be able to see or perceive that object... even if it is there....
or if something goes wrong....in that translation mechanism....then we may see things..which are not there......or if that translation mechanims... reaches a new...level of finese...or perception [ a very crude analogy for it ] then we may see things..... which are there....and yet are not visible through the normal level of perception as translateable by that translation or coversion mechanism that we normally have...

.....So in essense.... whatever the reality we see, hear, smell, feel, etc...etc... is due to the brains translation or perception mechanism... it has about that sense...

aquaris · 01-12-2005, 10:02 AM

Ceil I have personally and very briefly encountered that state....But it has not repeated itself...
By the way... can you tell us more about that gift.... PM me about it...

anyway..... the other day I was visiting some site....and there was this excellent explanations...
some of it goes like this....
We precieve the world or reality....throgh our five/six senses.....
But those senses are nothing but electrical impulses ...generated in our brain...through the stimulus of those senses...
for example.... when we see... the image...from the object passes through our eye lens and then is converted into electircal impulses... some part of Brain then translates them as the object...so in reality....if brain is unable to translate that....into that object....we wont be able to see or perceive that object... even if it is there....
or if something goes wrong....in that translation mechanism....then we may see things..which are not there......or if that translation mechanims... reaches a new...level of finese...or perception [ a very crude analogy for it ] then we may see things..... which are there....and yet are not visible through the normal level of perception as translateable by that translation or coversion mechanism that we normally have...

.....So in essense.... whatever the reality we see, hear, smell, feel, etc...etc... is due to the brains translation or perception mechanism... it has about that sense...

Virtual_Cliff · 01-12-2005, 01:15 PM

So pleased you said that, Aquaris. I sometimes wonder if we are like a blind man surrounded by a stunningly beautiful landscape he doesn't know is there. We think we live in the material world but really we live in a picture of it, and possibly a selective picture at that.

But I'm asking how do we distinguish "aliveness" from "unaliveness". Is there actually a difference? When pantheists ascribe a spirit to hills and streams, what are they saying about it? Any ideas?

lunamoth · 01-12-2005, 08:36 PM

Biologically speaking I get stuck at the place you pointed out VC, the virus. This is the classic borderline between the living and the inanimate. A virus sure can have a lot of power over a creature given that it is incapable of even replicating itself without hijacking a cell. Sticking to the material world people have already conceived of silicon based life forms and it's not too much of a stretch to imagine life based upon molecules other than DNA/RNA yet posessing the same capacities for storing information compactly and self-replication. However, the physical conditions of this planet have probably limited the potential for other types of life in this sense. And as for other planets I'm sure the SETI scietists have a very open mind about it, not limited to what is observable in our biosphere.

But, perhaps you are speaking of a different kind of life, one that is outside the boundaries of what is testable? In that case I like this metaphor: The life force is like radiation from the sun, everpresent and overly abundant. What we observe is merely what is reflected back by the material objects we experience. A rock reflects what a rock is capable of, a leaf what a leaf is capable of, and a person what a person is capable of. The whole universe is like a mirror, differentially reflecting God's image.

Ciel · 01-12-2005, 11:01 PM

Aquaris,
Yes, there is a translation mechanism through the brain, there is also the mind and there is also consciousness. The trinity of man.
But is the human simply a machine or created and sustained by a higher power?
When there is a shift in consciousness there are new variables unknown in previous content.

I, Brian · 01-13-2005, 12:27 PM

New Scientist made the point a couple of months ago that there is no universally acceptable definition of what constitutes "life".

Virtual_Cliff · 01-13-2005, 01:16 PM

Thanks Brian, I didn't know that.

If a life form does not die, it does not need to reproduce. If it does not expend energy, it does not need to feed - and anyway it could "feed" on other energy sources. A thing does not have to move to be alive. So we could be looking at non-moving, non-feeding, non-reproducing things which are alive. How would we know?

As far as I know, the search for extra-terrestrial life only covers water-based life forms. Is that right?

Ciel · 01-13-2005, 05:10 PM

Virtual Cliff.
All things emit an auric field through various degrees. Flora, fauna, human.
It is possible to both see and feel this .As I sit at this desk I see the life force of the opening flowers in the vase before me. If I place my hand over them I feel subtle electrical coolness of dancing vibration.
Consider an auric field itself to itself, without the need for attachment that exists in it's own right. Multicoloured formations spread throughout the planet. On an elemental level nature plays minute luminous systems in attendance to the natural worlds, graduating to globes of greater light and brightness and dancing coloured mists. Colours painting the seasons in landscape before they begin.
Indeed when pantheists ascribe a spirit to hills and streams it is through the subtle forms of connected recognition, yet there are also larger domains of truly heavenly conception.

Virtual_Cliff · 01-13-2005, 10:52 PM

Thanks Ciel, the language you use to describe what you have experienced is beautiful. You are saying in effect that in order to recognise life we need to go beyond our usual senses and logical thinking, and open ourselves to different kinds of sensations.

I have occasionally tried to sense the characteristic presence of trees or rocks or animals with mixed results. I suppose that like most people I'm a complete novice at that kind of thing. To you it's a firework display - to me it's a faint glimmer. Can people like me learn to be more sensitive?

Ciel · 01-14-2005, 02:15 PM

Virtual Cliff, Yes and Yes,
One of the paths of this life took the direction of theatre, in all its many forms in the understanding of human character and it's relationship to it's self and the inner and outer world play. It transacted from outward mode to the vision of the mime and theatre of mask.
There is a mask known as the neutral mask, without character, without history or pre-formed knowledge, yet all wisdom in it's innocence. The appreciation of the neutral is .......All is new...... it carries the conjecture.........What is this?...........as though never seen before. It is seeing with new eyes, it creates space and can be compared to a state of no- mind. There is no answer to formulate or refer, it is experience of presence of being.
An invert stillness, an incredible appreciation of what is.
I found an answer in the gratitude of life, in the stillness of being, without challenge and life was able to respond and to open with mutual respect and empathy.

Virtual_Cliff · 01-14-2005, 09:36 PM

Ciel you are an inspiration. I will think hard about what you've said and maybe return to it in another thread.

Has anyone else any thoughts on the difference if any between living and non-living things? I just feel that if the human race could crack this one there would be a great leap forward in our understanding - one that would change everything.

alexa · 01-15-2005, 06:15 PM

Life can be defined as the period between birth and death of an organism. On Earth all life is based on the chemistry of carbon compounds.

As per wikipedia there are 5 characteristics required to have an alive organism :

Living organisms contain molecular components such as: carbohydrates, lipids, nucleic acids, and proteins.
Living organisms require both energy and matter in order to continue living.
Living organisms are composed of at least one cell.
Living organisms maintain homeostasis.
Species of living organisms will evolve.

Maybe on other planets the chemistry of life is different or maybe not. This is beyond our present knowledge. I only hope to live enough to see life on other planets found.

Quahom1 · 01-15-2005, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexa

Life can be defined as the period between birth and death of an organism. On Earth all life is based on the chemistry of carbon compounds.

As per wikipedia there are 5 characteristics required to have an alive organism :

Living organisms contain molecular components such as: carbohydrates, lipids, nucleic acids, and proteins.
Living organisms require both energy and matter in order to continue living.
Living organisms are composed of at least one cell.
Living organisms maintain homeostasis.
Species of living organisms will evolve.

Maybe on other planets the chemistry of life is different or maybe not. This is beyond our present knowledge. I only hope to live enough to see life on other planets found.

Oh Alexa,

I know you're going to kick me for this:

Fire contains as a part of its very existence molecular components including all or part of what you mentioned above.

Fire requires energy and matter in order to continue existing.

Fire does require at least one cell to exist.

Fire maintains homeostasis.

Fire evolves.

Fire requires oxygen and fuel and energy. It consumes, and gives back. It grows and dies. It can be enraged, or smoulder quietly. It spreads, and can be made extinct.

Is fire alive?

v/r

Q