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Old 01-26-2012, 01:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
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"The empty mind is the devils workshop"

Why do people say this? What will the devil work with if there is nothing there? If the devil is working, he is putting something there, if you go on thinking and thinking, how do you know where these thoughts have come from? If there is a true emptiness, nothing can be done with it. As soon as something is done, there is no longer an emptiness.

Certainly, there will be some practice needed, mind will keep asserting and some will look evil - it is simply that now all you have repressed is arising. Do not become attached to it, simply watch, look at all the ridiculousness of it. Without being directed, this is what the mind has come up with, this is you without reins. Allow it to arise, it will cleanse your being, now you can be done with it. It is funny though that it is the religions which are based around choosing which say this. Choose good, deny evil, now without reins evil will fight back - you have to understand that without identifying with it, without giving it power, it is harmless, just an idea, a cloud floating through your inner sky.

When mind is utterly empty, that is when spirituality is, that is when you see what you truly are. You cannot be deluded when mind is not, how will it happen? You cannot become depressed, afraid, mad, it is all an identification with your thoughts. All that is left is utter freedom, the vastness of truth, you are simply the whole because the very limitation of your being was a delusion all along.
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Old 01-26-2012, 03:54 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: "The empty mind is the devils workshop"

The quote is "An idle mind is the devil's workshop" and it's from H.G. Bohn's, "Hand-Book of Proverbs," 1855

It means somebody who is busy with work - an occupied mind as opposed to an idle one - doesn't have time to think about sinning or doing any evil.
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Old 01-26-2012, 05:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: "The empty mind is the devils workshop"

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Originally Posted by Etu Malku View Post
The quote is "An idle mind is the devil's workshop" and it's from H.G. Bohn's, "Hand-Book of Proverbs," 1855

It means somebody who is busy with work - an occupied mind as opposed to an idle one - doesn't have time to think about sinning or doing any evil.
Ok, but they do, because they will be thinking of all the things they can do that would be better than working... most such answers tend to be sinful. Not that I uphold sin, the very concept in and of itself creates it, each law simply gives people ideas of stuff to try and get away with - and every single mature person goes through a period of rebellion, if anyone has not they simply are still a child. It is strange that Eve is considered negatively, she is the very reason you even know you're human today, we'd never have developed something as basic as language because it requires knowledge to communicate with it.

Still you have utterly missed my actual point, but that's fine.
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Old 01-26-2012, 05:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: "The empty mind is the devils workshop"

Someone else brought this quote to my attention not long ago:
“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone."
~ Blaise Pascal
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: "The empty mind is the devils workshop"

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Someone else brought this quote to my attention not long ago:
“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone."
~ Blaise Pascal

Yes, and someone else explained the reason why
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: "The empty mind is the devils workshop"

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Originally Posted by seattlegal View Post
Someone else brought this quote to my attention not long ago:
“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone."
~ Blaise Pascal

sounds really boring really
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:20 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: "The empty mind is the devils workshop"

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sounds really boring really
are you going to start doing something?

we can't drink tea all day

and we're going to run out of things to talk about .......

someone is going to excuse themselves from the table so they can go home

and then you're going to be all alone

pretty soon you're going to start thinking of smashing your next-door neighbour's window

or asking his wife to come over for a ........ never mind
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Old 01-27-2012, 01:33 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: "The empty mind is the devils workshop"

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Ok, but they do, because they will be thinking of all the things they can do that would be better than working... most such answers tend to be sinful. Not that I uphold sin, the very concept in and of itself creates it, each law simply gives people ideas of stuff to try and get away with - and every single mature person goes through a period of rebellion, if anyone has not they simply are still a child. It is strange that Eve is considered negatively, she is the very reason you even know you're human today, we'd never have developed something as basic as language because it requires knowledge to communicate with it.

Still you have utterly missed my actual point, but that's fine.
I love how I knock you off your pedestal, you admit it, climb back up, and declare I have utterly missed your actual point! When in fact you have no clue whether I got your point or did miss it . . . that my friend is Ego reigning Supreme
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Old 01-27-2012, 05:51 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: "The empty mind is the devils workshop"

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and every single mature person goes through a period of rebellion, if anyone has not they simply are still a child.
yes, if you think swearing, drinking alcohol or having sex before marriage is wrong, you've got to either try it out or do a thought experiment -- you have to convince yourself to accept that it isn't really that bad. After that you can go back to considering the negative consequences, that yes, they can be destructive, but everyone must be given their free choice because you can only take responsibility for your own actions.

There's a good reason to do this -- it's because one day you will either change your mind about the "sin," or you will find yourself in a situation where the "sin" is inevitable. You may well go on thinking you're better than those who engage in such a frowned-upon activity, or you can change your mind now and save yourself the heartache of violating your own set of ethics and disappointing those who know about it and count on you staying loyal to it. Better to be a rebel today than to be a red-faced hypocrite 20 years later.

It is indeed wise to rebel now than later.

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It is strange that Eve is considered negatively, she is the very reason you even know you're human today, we'd never have developed something as basic as language because it requires knowledge to communicate with it.
agreed, we're all better off because of her
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:07 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: "The empty mind is the devils workshop"

i think where Schrodinger's Cat lives is actually the Devil's workshop!
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Old 01-27-2012, 12:04 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: "The empty mind is the devils workshop"

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are you going to start doing something?

we can't drink tea all day
well there is always Beer

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and we're going to run out of things to talk about .......

someone is going to excuse themselves from the table so they can go home

and then you're going to be all alone

pretty soon you're going to start thinking of smashing your next-door neighbour's window

or asking his wife to come over for a ........ never mind

think if man was happy to sit on his arse not much would get done, we would never have left the oceans let alone the trees.

or maybe what was why we left the oceans for a more comfortable place for our bottoms.

and if man was supposed to sit on his arse doing nothing, man would have evolved huge comfortable bottoms, come to think of it perhaps that is where evolution is heading ?
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Old 01-27-2012, 01:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: "The empty mind is the devils workshop"

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Why do people say this?
Well it's contextual ... I don't think they are saying it in response to a spiritual discipline or meditation training.

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What will the devil work with if there is nothing there?
There is never 'nothing there' ... what is there is being that transcends the world of 'things', be they ideas of forms or material presences, but being is there ... to say there's nothing is like discussing the contents of an empty cup.

Another saying is:
"All that is required for evil to flourish is the good man to do nothing."

The way of Enlightenment is not to do or be nothing. As Eckhart says, "My truest I is God" — but God is not nothing.

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f there is a true emptiness, nothing can be done with it. As soon as something is done, there is no longer an emptiness.
Well that opens the debate on 'true emptiness'. what is referred to as emptiness is so because what is there is beyond forms, beyond manifestation, but it contains all forms, all manifestations in an undifferentiated state, thus it is neither being nor not-being, neither acting nor not-acting. It is the Motionless Mover, the Cause that suffers no cause. The Arche Anarchos or the Apeiron of Anaximander ...

I would say 'true emptiness' is actually the absolute and infinite Principle, and is All-Perfect, All-Possible ... of course, both you and I are pushing language beyond its limits in this discussion.

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Do not become attached to it, simply watch, look at all the ridiculousness of it. Without being directed, this is what the mind has come up with, this is you without reins. Allow it to arise, it will cleanse your being, now you can be done with it.
No, evil cannot cleanse, as that would be good, and no good can come from evil.

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It is funny though that it is the religions which are based around choosing which say this.
Those religions that recognise the fundamental gift of selfhood and freedom, and the Giver, yes ... and I would have it no other way.

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Choose good, deny evil...
Why introduce duality where none need exist?

Be good ... that's it. Be good for goodness sake. There's no need to invent other reasons why.

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you have to understand that without identifying with it, without giving it power, it is harmless, just an idea, a cloud floating through your inner sky.
D'you think so ... I hope you never discover the truth of it.

Or put it another way ... does that include ignoring it when someone else is the victim of evil? Do you not see that evil will flourish as long as you keep your nose in the clouds?

This is not, nor will it ever be, a perfect world. You can't pretend it is by ignoring what's wrong. This is the world you live in.

Evil is the only real 'nothing', because it possesses no actual being as such (all being coming from God, and all being is good), no reality as such ...

... But in the world of ideas and the world of things, in the world of finite and contingent forms, evil is very real, and very harmful, and highly addictive.

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When mind is utterly empty, that is when spirituality is, that is when you see what you truly are.
What are you? How can the mind be empty and spiritual? How can you see what you truly are when there is nothing to be seen, nothing of the seer?

You're confusing levels.

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You cannot be deluded when mind is not, how will it happen?
So what do you suggest, frontal lobotomies all round?

I'm not being facetious, I think you're being somewhat romantically naive.

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All that is left is utter freedom, the vastness of truth, you are simply the whole because the very limitation of your being was a delusion all along.
Ah, the last bit saves the day, but for one thing:
Your corporate being is not, at the level of corporate beings, a delusion. The only aspect of delusion is thinking that that is all there is.

There is more to me than my corporeality ... indeed, my corporeality is the least of who I am, but it is as real, in its own way, as any other aspect of my being ... and I know my being is real only inasmuch as it participates in being-as-such.

Enlightenment is not an 'Indian rope trick', one doesn't disappear into the clouds, being enlightened means one is where one is, and sees things as they are, and are not ... it is just that it is not all there is.

God is not deluded in creating ... so creation is, in its very being, not a delusion, rather delusion signified a limitation of vision, and that is where fantasia and evil (illusion and nothing) fills the space.

God bless

Thomas
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:49 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: "The empty mind is the devils workshop"

Thomas, quite good reply, IMHO. Theodicy, the Problem of Evil, and the notion of Evil itslef is a universal, basic concern the world over. It is the shadow ourside the light the ghost beyond actual entities or experience.

It is part of redemption to resist evil, to speak up for G!d's justice insofar as we are capable.

This, as you said, becomes a really hard issue to keep on one level.
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:12 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: "The empty mind is the devils workshop"

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sounds really boring really
What is boredom other than exactly the inability to site alone silently?
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: "The empty mind is the devils workshop"

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i think where Schrodinger's Cat lives is actually the Devil's workshop!
Certain it is where fear arises: the unknown.

What is hell but the manifestation of fear?
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