The established kingdom

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

date setting is a sign of a false prophet, especially when one calls themself a prophet and has set other dates and end times which have all failed.

My point was not to set a date. It was to show that for all practical purposes, the beginning of the "end" could have started back in 1150 AD, which is when the weather changed dramatically, crops failed regularly, pestulance and blight, plagues and sickness, wars and rumors of wars occured regularly, up to current times. In fact, some "experts" speculate that had not man stepped into the industrial age circa 1850 (with all the CO2 being kicked out into the atmosphere), we'd still be suffering from the Little Ice age.

Prior to 1150 AD, the weather was rather mild and stable, and from 500 to 1150 AD things were relatively quiet around the world.

I'd also like to point out that according to scripture, Jesus made it clear He was going (right then), to prepare a place for us. That to me indicates His Kingdom was already established, and He was setting things up for us...

v/r

Q

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I'd also like to point out that according to scripture, Jesus made it clear He was going (right then), to prepare a place for us. That to me indicates His Kingdom was already established, and He was setting things up for us...

v/r

Q

when the kingdom was born , (revelation 12;5-6) it happened at a later time ,the book of revelation is for our day ,we are in the Lords day, and yes Jesus did go back to heaven ,but he had to wait for the time he would be made king
But this [man] offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God, from then on awaiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet. hebrews 10;12-13

(Romans 8:34) Who is he that will condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died, yes, rather the one who was raised up from the dead, who is on the right hand of God, who also pleads for us.

(Colossians 3:1) If, however,you were raised up with the Christ, go on seeking the things above, where the Christ is seated at the right hand of God

and yes, the 144,000 have their place in the kingdom (Jews and non Jews) and most of them are already up there doing what their king wants them too ,shortly after Jesus was made king in 1914 he resurrected those who would be going up there with him ,and those who he spoke to when he was on the earth have got their place . yes the kingdom is now established busy ,busy, busy. its all being revealed in the time of the end.

[BlaznFattyz]

jesus christ was born a king and was worshipped by men on earth and angels in heaven as a king, Jesus Christ lived his adult life preaching as a king, and he died on the cross as a king and resurrected as a king back to the glory of his father where he was always. the point is he was always a king. the kingdom was established with adam. adam walked with the lord in the garden and spoke to him. the lord sat with abraham in the tent and ate with him, david filled with the holy spirit knew of the lord and sang about him. john the baptist preached the coming of the lord and baptised him. all righteous men and prophets knew of the lord jesus before he was born on earth and in being faithful and worshipping god and believing in his son the kingdom was established with them. when christ came he fulfilled the law, created a new convenent with his people and the church. as we know live under grace rather than by law we are grafted into this kingdom. 1914 means nothing in regards to christ, his kingdom or his kingship or his return. it is only a date the is relevant to the jw religion and nothing more. it is by faith in christ that we are saved and no one else. all those that believe in god, the son, and the holy spirit are the kingdom which has been around since the beginning of our time.

"Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: Behold thy King cometh to thee, He is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass." (Zechariah 9:9)

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

when the kingdom was born , (revelation 12;5-6) it happened at a later time ,the book of revelation is for our day ,we are in the Lords day, and yes Jesus did go back to heaven ,but he had to wait for the time he would be made king
But this [man] offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God, from then on awaiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet. hebrews 10;12-13

(Romans 8:34) Who is he that will condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died, yes, rather the one who was raised up from the dead, who is on the right hand of God, who also pleads for us.

(Colossians 3:1) If, however,you were raised up with the Christ, go on seeking the things above, where the Christ is seated at the right hand of God

and yes, the 144,000 have their place in the kingdom (Jews and non Jews) and most of them are already up there doing what their king wants them too ,shortly after Jesus was made king in 1914 he resurrected those who would be going up there with him ,and those who he spoke to when he was on the earth have got their place . yes the kingdom is now established busy ,busy, busy. its all being revealed in the time of the end.

To be sure Revelations is for our day. However it was also for the days of the early Christians and the plight they were going through, and it dovetailed quite nicely into the situations they were facing then.

As far as Revelations and the 144,000 well, that is a subject for another thread. However I distinctly recall reading that the 144,000 are chosen during the Tribulations (when the Holy Spirit is gone, and the Anti-Christ is in full control of earth).

That day has not yet arrived.

v/r

Q

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

To be sure Revelations is for our day. However it was also for the days of the early Christians and the plight they were going through, and it dovetailed quite nicely into the situations they were facing then.

As far as Revelations and the 144,000 well, that is a subject for another thread. However I distinctly recall reading that the 144,000 are chosen during the Tribulations (when the Holy Spirit is gone, and the Anti-Christ is in full control of earth).

That day has not yet arrived.

v/r

Q

as far as i am aware the 144,000 started to be chosen from
Pentecost 33 C.E. onward ,they are the little flock that Jesus spoke of

Have no fear, little flock, because YOUR Father has approved of giving YOU the kingdom...luke 12;32 so they have been chosen , and if they remain faithful they would be resurrected soon after Jesus was made king in 1914, but for these last days there has been a gathering of a great crowd who have shown that they want to live under this kingdom goverment

After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: "Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb. revelation 7;9-10

[mee]

The Kingdom itself is a divinely instituted heavenly government that brings about God’s will, eliminating the effects of sin and death and restoring righteous conditions on earth. Already this Kingdom has taken power in the heavens, and soon "it will crush and put an end to all these [human] kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite."—Daniel 2:44; Revelation 11:15; 12:10. is not the bible a book that gives us a hope for the future . i think that Gods established heavenly kingdom is a great hope for the earth ,and its all happening as the bible tells us .what thrilling times we are now living in

But the end of all things has drawn close. Be sound in mind, therefore, and be vigilant with a view to prayers 1 peter 4;7

"‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth. matthew 6;9-10

[mee]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

jesus christ was born a king and was worshipped by men on earth and angels in heaven as a king, Jesus Christ lived his adult life preaching as a king, and he died on the cross as a king and resurrected as a king back to the glory of his father where he was always. the point is he was always a king. the kingdom was established with adam. adam walked with the lord in the garden and spoke to him. the lord sat with abraham in the tent and ate with him, david filled with the holy spirit knew of the lord and sang about him. john the baptist preached the coming of the lord and baptised him. all righteous men and prophets knew of the lord jesus before he was born on earth and in being faithful and worshipping god and believing in his son the kingdom was established with them. when christ came he fulfilled the law, created a new convenent with his people and the church. as we know live under grace rather than by law we are grafted into this kingdom. 1914 means nothing in regards to christ, his kingdom or his kingship or his return. it is only a date the is relevant to the jw religion and nothing more. it is by faith in christ that we are saved and no one else. all those that believe in god, the son, and the holy spirit are the kingdom which has been around since the beginning of our time.

"Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: Behold thy King cometh to thee, He is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass." (Zechariah 9:9)

yes , Gods sacred secret has been revealed over the centuries in a progressive way , right up till the time we live in now , its all happening in this time of the end.
And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant. Daniel 12;4
(Daniel 12:9) And he went on to say: "Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end.

[mee]

I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man(Jesus christ) happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days(Jehovah God )he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One. And to him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin. Daniel 7;13-14...............yes this is Jesus , being made king in 1914, its all happened , and the heavenly kingdom is now established in the time of the end ....daniel 2;44 i find the out working of Gods purpose so thrilling , its all happening in the time of the end. yes the kingdom is now established and has been since 1914 . yes he has been given rulership and kingdom its all happening. would you not agree that we are living in thrilling times indeed.

[mee]

more evidence that Jesus is now ruling in the established heavenly kingdom since 1914. yes 1914 certainly is a significant year in bible prophecy,

decades in advance, Bible students proclaimed that there would be significant developments in 1914. What were these, and what evidence points to 1914 as such an important year?

As recorded at Luke 21:24, Jesus said: "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations ["the times of the Gentiles," King James Version] are fulfilled." Jerusalem had been the capital city of the Jewish nation—the seat of rulership of the line of kings from the house of King David. (Psalm 48:1, 2) However, these kings were unique among national leaders. They sat on "Jehovah’s throne" as representatives of God himself. (1 Chronicles 29:23) Jerusalem was thus a symbol of Jehovah’s rulership.
How and when, though, did God’s rulership begin to be "trampled on by the nations"? This happened in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. "Jehovah’s throne" became vacant, and the line of kings who descended from David was interrupted. (2 Kings 25:1-26) Would this ‘trampling’ go on forever? No, for the prophecy of Ezekiel said regarding Jerusalem’s last king, Zedekiah: "Remove the turban, and lift off the crown. . . . It will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him." (Ezekiel 21:26, 27) The one who has "the legal right" to the Davidic crown is Christ Jesus. (Luke 1:32, 33) So the ‘trampling’ would end when Jesus became King.
When would that grand event occur? Jesus showed that the Gentiles would rule for a fixed period of time. The account in Daniel chapter 4 holds the key to knowing how long that period would last. It relates a prophetic dream experienced by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He saw an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump could not grow because it was banded with iron and copper. An angel declared: "Let seven times pass over it."—Daniel 4:10-16.
In the Bible, trees are sometimes used to represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5) So the chopping down of the symbolic tree represents how God’s rulership, as expressed through the kings at Jerusalem, would be interrupted. However, the vision served notice that this ‘trampling of Jerusalem’ would be temporary—a period of "seven times." How long a period is that?
Revelation 12:6, 14 indicates that three and a half times equal "a thousand two hundred and sixty days." "Seven times" would therefore last twice as long, or 2,520 days. But the Gentile nations did not stop ‘trampling’ on God’s rulership a mere 2,520 days after Jerusalem’s fall. Evidently, then, this prophecy covers a much longer period of time. On the basis of Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6, which speak of "a day for a year," the "seven times" would cover 2,520 years.

The 2,520 years began in October 607 B.C.E., when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians and the Davidic king was taken off his throne. The period ended in October 1914. At that time, "the appointed times of the nations" ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God’s heavenly King.—Psalm 2:1-6; Daniel 7:13, 14.

Just as Jesus predicted, his "presence" as heavenly King has been marked by dramatic world developments—war, famine, earthquakes, pestilences. (Matthew 24:3-8; Luke 21:11) Such developments bear powerful testimony to the fact that 1914 indeed marked the birth of God’s heavenly Kingdom and the beginning of "the last days" of this present wicked system of things.—2 Timothy 3:1-5.
From October 607 B.C.E. to October 1 B.C.E. is 606 years. Since there is no zero year, from October 1 B.C.E. to October 1914 C.E. is 1,914 years. By adding 606 years and 1,914 years, we get 2,520 years.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

more evidence that Jesus is now ruling in the established heavenly kingdom since 1914. yes 1914 certainly is a significant year in bible prophecy,

decades in advance, Bible students proclaimed that there would be significant developments in 1914...

Very well. 1914 is a significant year. Can you explain the rest of the proclamations? I'd like to understand.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Very well. 1914 is a significant year. Can you explain the rest of the proclamations? I'd like to understand.

do you think that we should recognize 1914 , and Jesus kingship in the heavens, or dismiss it ? for me i feel it is very important to recognize Jesus kingship that happened in 1914............ which part do you not understand .?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

do you think that we should recognize 1914 , and Jesus kingship in the heavens, or dismiss it ? for me i feel it is very important to recognize Jesus kingship that happened in 1914............ which part do you not understand .?

No, I think you answered that part well. For you it is very important to recognize Jesus' kingship as occuring in 1914. I don't think you should dismiss your personal belief at all.

I happen to believe differently, that is all. I'll use this to explain my belief, as it states it best:

"I believe in one God, the Father Almighty
maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God,
and born of the Father before all ages.

"God of God light of light, true God of true God, begotten not made,
consubstantial to the Father, by whom all things were made.
Who for us men and our salvation came down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and of the Virgin Mary and was made man;

was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered, died and was buried;
and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures. And ascended into
heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with
glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end.

And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from
the Father and the Son, who together with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified, and who is spoken by the Prophets.

And the one holy, catholic and apostolic Church. I confess one baptism
for the forgiveness of sins. And I look for the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come
Amen"

Similar yet so different in perceptions.

You see, to me Jesus' kingdom is already established. He assumed the throne 40 days after He rose from the dead. But it isn't complete yet. And Jesus is begotten of the Father, and one with the Father, not made by the Father. And when He comes in glory to judge the living and the dead, then His kingdom will truly, and forever, be without end.

And I believe the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son and is one with the Father and the Son.

And I believe in one holy catholic (universal not Roman), and apostolic Chruch.

And I do look for the resurrection of the dead and the new life of the world that has yet to come.

When will this all be completed? When the Father states so, not one instant before. And no one know the the year, the day, the hour, or the moment of that time, but the Father (Jesus stated so).

By looking at my faith in this way, I am free to concentrate on each day as it comes, and to live it to the fullest. Yes, I often think of God and talk with Him, but it is to express the simple pleasures and wonders He gives me each day, or to ask how to deal with a tough situation, or to bless my family each day as we rise and begin that day.

That doesn't leave me much time to worry or even consider the end of the world as we know it. In fact, what it does do, is compel me to at least try to live as an example that Jesus wants me to, just for that day. Then try it again the next day, and the next, and so on...until I am finally called home.

That is my belief.

v/r

Q

[mee]

Whether the message is accepted or rejected, people must know that it has been preached. the book of revelation is now well along ,and the sacred secret has progressivly been revealed and its all to do with the established kingdom that was set up in 1914 ....Daniel 2 ;44 for me i find it really brings the bible alive.

[BlaznFattyz]

jw's 1914 date does nothing to save anyone; therefore it is useless to the unsaved. it is important to jw's obviously for the sake saying we know something you dont, or just repeating stuff someone they really dont konw said once, perhaps. i see it as another failed date jw's have announced, among many.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

Whether the message is accepted or rejected, people must know that it has been preached. the book of revelation is now well along ,and the sacred secret has progressivly been revealed and its all to do with the established kingdom that was set up in 1914 ....Daniel 2 ;44 for me i find it really brings the bible alive.

Duly noted.