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Old 02-23-2009, 02:01 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Re: The great beast

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Originally Posted by greymare View Post
NickA can you please explain it to me... You say alot but none of it I understand.......
And you want him to say more?
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Old 02-23-2009, 02:12 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Re: The great beast

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Realistically, I seriously wonder whether anyone actually cares what anybody else thinks, especially in this online linguistic realm where we don't really know anyone and they don't really know us. This is so far removed from real life. A person is so much more than a text file.
Yup, a person is very much more. So much so that when text is all we have with which to exchange ideas it is vital to provide our best. I've only met one member here in person and plan to meet with two more which is pretty ambitious for an introvert

Writing to each other the way we do is indeed a part of life, since living beings are engaged in the activity. You do see that there are those who simply pontificate to an audience and those that actively engage each other. So there is a certain level of caring going on.
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Old 02-23-2009, 02:16 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Re: The great beast

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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
You do see that there are those who simply pontificate to an audience and those that actively engage each other. So there is a certain level of caring going on.
Paladin, actively engaging is not necessarily an indication of caring. It could be that they are seeking answers and pontificating is not the way to get answers.
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Old 02-23-2009, 02:47 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Re: The great beast

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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Quote:
Realistically, I seriously wonder whether anyone actually cares what anybody else thinks, especially in this online linguistic realm where we don't really know anyone and they don't really know us. This is so far removed from real life. A person is so much more than a text file.
Yup, a person is very much more. So much so that when text is all we have with which to exchange ideas it is vital to provide our best. I've only met one member here in person and plan to meet with two more which is pretty ambitious for an introvert

Writing to each other the way we do is indeed a part of life, since living beings are engaged in the activity. You do see that there are those who simply pontificate to an audience and those that actively engage each other. So there is a certain level of caring going on.
Hey, how many people that you meet in real life do you engage in the kinds of conversations that we do here?
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Old 02-23-2009, 03:26 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Re: The great beast

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Originally Posted by greymare View Post
please please please... dont confuse me... I dont know who needlman, weil, and keirkegard are?? and where the heck is Platos cave....

NickA can you please explain it to me , without quoting, and in simple english.
Belittle me if you will, i dont care,, but i am curious... You say alot but none of it I understand.......
Love the Grey
Hi Grey

Plato's cave allegory is not easy to explain if you're unfamiliar with the basic idea which is that existence is composed of levels of reality. We have enough trouble with one level.

You've heard the expression of not seeing the forest for the trees. We are involved with the trees so do not experience the life of the forest, the wholeness, within which the trees reside. The forest is a higher level of reality than the level of individual trees since the essence of all types of trees exist within the forest

Plato's cave is an allegory that connects the "world of forms" and the phenomenal world which we call reality. It connects the level of reality in which the essence of things exist. For example there are many forms of tables but there is one thing that defines something as a table. That is its "isness" and it existence is in the world of forms

The "good" which is what philosophy seeks as wisdom is in the world of forms. In Plato's cave we are attached so as to only experience shadows on the wall or interpretations of the world of forms.

The esoteric idea here is that man is dual natured. As such he is not restricted to the phenomenal world as animals are but can awaken to the inner experience of the world of forms above the animal level within which the essence of "Man" exiss and the :"good" is experienced which clarifies human meaning and purpose beyond the phenomenal world or as Plato calls "shadows on the wall."

Society is produced from the collective results of interpretations of shadows on the wall and no longer acknowledges the world of forms or its "isness.". As such it reacts like an injured Beast dominated by a cruel master which is the hypocrisy of the collective human condition.

Without being open to our connection to the world of forms, we have no choice as a conditioned beast but to devolve into being governed by power and force resulting in everything you've witnessed in the world including alternating between compassion and cruelty without batting an eye..
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Old 02-23-2009, 03:43 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Re: The great beast

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Originally Posted by seattlegal View Post
Hey, how many people that you meet in real life do you engage in the kinds of conversations that we do here?
That's the thing isn't it? Being able to connect the way we do serves a social need that might not be met otherwise. I value the people I have gotten to know over the last few years here. What makes this interaction interesting is that since it is in print we have to take a little more time pondering the other persons point of view. The downside is, no body language to clarify the communication.
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Old 02-23-2009, 03:48 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Re: The great beast

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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
The downside is, no body language to clarify the communication.
Or obscure the conversation!
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Old 02-23-2009, 03:52 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Re: The great beast

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Originally Posted by greymare View Post
where the heck is Platos cave....

Watch The Matrix. That movie is based on the concept.
Not the flying neo part, the part when he realizes his world
was just a prison (cave) and is liberated from it.
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Old 02-23-2009, 03:55 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Re: The great beast

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Originally Posted by c0de View Post
Watch The Matrix. That movie is based on the concept.
Not the flying neo part, the part when he realizes his world
was just a prison (cave) and is liberated from it.
You mean it's not a club in Denver's lower downtown?
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Old 02-23-2009, 04:08 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Re: The great beast

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Originally Posted by c0de View Post
Watch The Matrix. That movie is based on the concept.
Not the flying neo part, the part when he realizes his world
was just a prison (cave) and is liberated from it.
Quite true. Instead of God telling you what to do in the cave, education should be more concerned with getting out of it. But it isn't and only serves politically to sustain a more pleasant cave life so we are as we are.

Plato's Cave & The Matrix

Quote:
The Matrix likewise privileges the work that strangeness and calculated vagueness do; Morpheus, after all, cannot show Neo what he most needs to see, but must get him to see for himself something that is difficult to recognize. In this way, The Matrix and Plato’s Cave are faithful to a central tenet in Socrates’ philosophical examinations: that proper teaching only occurs when students are prepared to make discoveries for themselves. Furthermore, the discovery that is most crucial is the discovery of oneself. Readiness for self-examination is, after all, what makes “care of the soul” possible.
Quote:
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Old 02-23-2009, 04:44 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Re: The great beast

@ Paladin

I knew it, Paladin's a club crawler!!!


@ Nick

Please stop misrepresenting Kierkegaard.
Unlike you he recognized the importance
of revelation and blind faith.

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:...n&ct=clnk&cd=3
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Old 02-23-2009, 05:05 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Re: The great beast

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Originally Posted by greymare View Post
So, tell me,, this is an open invitiation... what exactly is this great beast that particularly 2 posters often refer too.........
go on...
Im all ears........
Oh, and in simple terms if you please.
the beast of many heads............ a collective of self serving

in the texts of some theologies they point to a numbered one. such as in acts, they suggest it was jesus
Quote:
16`Men, brethren, it behoved this Writing that it be fulfilled that beforehand the Holy Spirit spake through the mouth of David, concerning Judas, who became guide to those who took Jesus,

17because he was numbered among us, and did receive the share in this ministration,
but Jesus didn't complete the prophecies

then in other areas of scripture, they suggest the bad guys will all be numbered....

Quote:
Carbon -12

most all life is based from carbon 12............ (includes all human beings)

and it is chemically observed as having:

6 electrons, 6 protons and 6 neutrons...............

so now everyone who read this has 'the mark' upon their head.........
but that is harmless..........

now to observe TODAY's world then the number upon each DOES apply

Such as your social security number that gives american's free reign throughout the free world?

As none can earn an income or be a citizen without it ? ...........(this creates the beast of many heads, as that power, money and might is focused together)

the commitment is made to the philosophy born in 1776... by adam smith (same year the declaration was signed...hint hint)

is everyone aware of the philosophy of western business?

“Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because its excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience.”
- ADAM SMITH

IN which business is easier to predict because it is not flogged with having human compassion among the people.

perhaps some schooling?

Adam Smith | Philosopher

Quote:
Smith moved to London in 1776, where he published An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, which examined in detail the consequences of economic freedom. It covered such concepts as the role of self-interest, the division of labor, the function of markets, and the international implications of a laissez-faire economy. “Wealth of Nations” established economics as an autonomous subject and launched the economic doctrine of free enterprise.

Smith laid the intellectual framework that explained the free market and still holds true today. He is most often recognized for the expression “the invisible hand,” which he used to demonstrate how self-interest guides the most efficient use of resources in a nation's economy, with public welfare coming as a by-product
that 'invisible hand' is the beast many perhaps love more than truth?

The great beast is the combined people of selfish pursuits over the good of mankind.

take it from the little horny one born amongst the monster. (see Daniel 7:8)
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Old 02-24-2009, 03:27 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Re: The great beast

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Originally Posted by c0de View Post
@ Paladin

I knew it, Paladin's a club crawler!!!


@ Nick

Please stop misrepresenting Kierkegaard.
Unlike you he recognized the importance
of revelation and blind faith.

Kant and Kierkegaard on Faith:
Don't confuse what is meant by Kierkegaard's "leap of faith" with "blind faith."

The "leap of faith" is the door Simone refers to that results from the deeper experience of a contradiction.

Quote:
"When a contradiction is impossible to resolve except by a lie, then we know that it is really a door." Simone Weil
In the linked article The question of Jesus being both god and man is a contradiction. One must take a leap of faith through the door to experientially understand it.

Quote:
It is important to understand that Kierkegaard felt a leap of faith was necessary in accepting Christianity due to the paradoxes that exist in Christianity. In his book Philosophical Fragments, Kierkegaard delves deep into the paradoxes that Christianity presents. One of these is the belief that there existed a being (Jesus) who is both 100% man and 100% God. Since neither logic nor reason can reconcile this, one would require faith to believe it in light of the paradox. So, when one decides to have faith that a being existed as both God and man, one makes a qualitative change from non-belief to belief, and thusly makes a 'leap of faith' that it is true.
This isn't blind faith but rather reconciling this paradox requires the depth of conscious pondering.
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:14 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Re: The great beast

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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
I have no idea what you mean by "truth".


the truth has set mee free
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:28 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Re: The great beast

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Originally Posted by Nick_A View Post
Don't confuse what is meant by Kierkegaard's "leap of faith" with "blind faith".


Nick, you are the one who is confused here.
Kierkegaard's entire thesis rests on revelation,
and absolute duty to God. This is much different
then your foundation on philosophy and rationality.

I am sure that if I research the works of Simone Weil
I would find a picture much different then the one
you have presented as well. As I am sure you're
confusion is not limited to just Kierkegaard.
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