The Great CR Peace-nik Sit-in - Page 3

Dondi · 06-07-2006, 01:27 PM

Brothers in Arms - Dire Straits

These mist covered mountains
Are a home now for me
But my home is the lowlands
And always will be
Some day you'll return to
Your valleys and your farms
And you'll no longer burn
To be brothers in arms

Through these fields of destruction
Baptism of fire
I've watched all your suffering
As the battles raged higher
And though they did hurt me so bad
In the fear and alarm
You did not desert me
My brothers in arms

There's so many different worlds
So many different suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones

Now the sun's gone to hell
And the moon's riding high
Let me bid you farewell
Every man has to die
But it's written in the starlight
And every line on your palm
We're fools to make war
On our brothers in arms

Vajradhara · 06-08-2006, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciel

Vaj,

With respect, can you say how the lyrics from B S of War Pigs fit in relation to Buddha Dharma and compassion.

- c -

Namaste ciel,

thank you for the post.

i am not sure what you are asking.

clearly, the song is not a Buddhist song nor is it espousing Buddhist ideas with talk of judgement and so forth.

in terms of war protest songs, however, it seems relevant to the thread.

metta,

~v

Ciel · 06-08-2006, 08:31 PM

Namaste Vaj,

Yet, how is it relevant to a man of Buddhist nature, as you appear to be.

And with relevance to this thread amongst others, it is strange to this mentality that words of hatred and war are written in the name of peace.

Am I really such an intelligence unknown?

In Peace - c -

Vajradhara · 06-08-2006, 08:45 PM

Namaste Ciel,

thank you for the post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciel

Namaste Vaj,

Yet, how is it relevant to a man of Buddhist nature, as you appear to be.

just a being. in any event, i understand those things in a different manner. in a sense, the reaping of ones karma can be seen as a judgement, of course that is due to a misunderstanding of what is going on with karma as it is the fruit of karma which is what a being tastes. nevertheless, some beings perceive it in this manner.

in war time there are fields with bodies burning and, in the overall context of history, it has been the poor which have take up the sword in their nations sake. beings are engaged in thinking of the most effective manner in which to kill other beings.

Quote:

And with relevance to this thread amongst others, it is strange to this mentality that words of hatred and war are written in the name of peace.

indeed. but, then again, that is what you get from the first Heavy Metal band.. they are an angry lot, especially at that point in their musical career.

Quote:

Am I really such an intelligence unknown?

In Peace - c -

i am a bit unclear on what you are asking here. perhaps our idoms are not being properly understood. if you could ask this query using some different words, i may have a better chance at answering the intent behind the query.

suffice it to say that this being is not a Buddha and, as such, i have no ability to know anothers thoughts.

metta,
~v

wil · 06-08-2006, 08:49 PM

Tis living in the noise that really makes us appreciate the silence...

lunamoth · 06-08-2006, 09:02 PM

Ciel, I am grateful for your peaceful spirit and approach. I pray you remain steadfast in this. At the same time I think it is right to express anger at injustice, and it is important to face very clearly the reasons we are opposed to war.

If we gloss over the brutality of war and detach it from the cold hard violence and the practical evil manifested during war it seems like we are opposing merely an idea. Well, just go look at Juantoo3's thread on the Warrior Philosophe' to see what can happen when war becomes just a philosophy. When you are not faced with the torn bodies and broken souls it's all too easy to say war has an upside, a benefit to humankind. When all is ideology someone at the top has an easier time sending your children off to die on the bloody fields, or drop the bomb from afar. It is all to easy to forget flesh and blood.

luna

taijasi · 06-08-2006, 09:37 PM

As a matter of fact, not only did Black Sabbath sing about the horrors of war in protest, and perhaps delight a little bit in pointing out that the war-mongers are in for a nasty time of it when "Satan laughing spreads his wings" ... but OZZY too, in his solo career, sang about war in protest.

Notice, that in this song, Ozzy is not singing praises to the nuclear bomb ... read carefully:

"Ozzy Osbourne Thank God For The Bomb lyrics"

Like moths to a flame
Is man never gonna change
Time’s seen untold aggression
And infliction of pain
If that’s the only thing that’s stopping war

Then thank God for the bomb
Thank God for the bomb
Thank God for the bomb
Thank God for the bomb

Nuke ya nuke ya

War is just another game
Tailor made for the insane
But make a threat of their annihilation
And nobody wants to play
If that’s the only thing that keeps the peace

Then thank God for the bomb
Thank God for the bomb
Thank God for the bomb
Thank God for the bomb

Nuke ya nuke ya

Today was tommorow yesterday
It’s funny how the time can slip away
The face of the doomsday clock
Has launched a thousand wars
As we near the final hour
Time is the only foe we have

When war is obsolete
I’ll thank God for war’s defeat
But any talk about hell freezing over
Is all said with tongue in cheek
Until the day the war drums beat no more

I’ll thank God for the bomb
Thank God for the bomb
Thank God for the bomb
Thank God for the bomb

Nuke ya nuke ya

So while the media loves to harp on this man's errors, and the public is amused by the antics on MTV shows - you know, the "Cops" mentality - here he has his lucid moments. Let me share another song from Ozzy's solo career to illustrate:

"Ozzy Osbourne Killer Of Giants lyrics"

If none of us believe in war
Then can you tell me what the weapon’s for
Listen to me everyone
If the button is pushed
There’ll be nowhere to run

Giants sleeping giants winning wars
Within their dreams
Till they wake when it’s too late
And in god’s name blaspheme

Killer of giants threatens us all
Mountains of madness standing so tall
Marches of protest not stopping the war
Or the killer of giants
The killer of giants

Mother nature people state your case without it’s worth
Your seas run dry your sleepless eyes are turning red alert

Killer of giants threatens us all
Mountains of madness standing so tall
Rising so proudly it has nowhere to fall
This killer of giants
This killer of giants

Killer of giants threatens us all
Mountains of madness standing so tall
Marches of protest not stopping the war
Oh the killer of giants
Oh the killer of giants
Killer of giants
Killer of giants

Anyone who knows this song, who has heard it, knows it is actually rather in the form of a ballad, it is poetical, it is quite beautiful in fact ... and is not actually heavy metal at all!!! Might I recommend downloading it, if you are curious? It may even bring tears to your eyes. It has to mine.

But I've got one more for ya! And this one is definitely metal, it is Black Sabbath! Yes, I do often prefer the Woodstock era peaceful protest songs and chants ... but sometimes, I just hafta crank this one up and wonder - WILL WE EVER LEARN???

"Black Sabbath Children Of The Grave lyrics"

Revolution in their minds - the children start to march
Against the world in which they have to live
and all the hate that's in their hearts
They're tired of being pushed around
and told just what to do
They'll fight the world until they've won
and love comes flowing through

Children of tomorrow live in the tears that fall today
Will the sun rise up tomorrow bringing peace in any way?
Must the world live in the shadow of atomic fear?
Can they win the fight for peace or will they disappear?

So you children of the world,
listen to what I say
If you want a better place to live in
spread the words today
Show the world that love is still alive
you must be brave
Or you children of today are
Children of the Grave, Yeah!

My favorite part is actually the tribal war-dance touch, about 2 1/2 minutes in! Rock on, Ozzy, Geezer, Tony & Bill, ROCK ON!!!

And peace to us all, HUMANITY WILLING!!! God ain't got nuthin' to do with this one ... I think He's just chillin' back, holdin' his breath with the rest of us (hey, pass that spliff) ...

uhhhh-huch uh-huch uh-huch uh-huch uh-huch!

taijasi

Ciel · 06-08-2006, 10:36 PM

Luna,

With thanks, your kindness travels far. Your point of view is well understood.

In simplicity I ask the people to consider;

Are you promoting a peaceful solution?

Is it possible you have become the very thing you are opposing?

peace - c -

taijasi · 06-08-2006, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciel

Luna,

With thanks, your kindness travels far. Your point of view is well understood.

In simplicity I ask the people to consider;

Are you promoting a peaceful solution?

Is it possible you have become the very thing you are opposing?

peace - c -

And btw, Ciel, I hear what you are saying. I get very upset to even hear the puppet dictator fuhrer person on TV anymore, so I don't look at him, or the evil empire that pulls his strings. I REFUSE to listen, it is poison in my ears. I hate to even read about this evil that has spread, and some might say that I am a bit like an ostrich, with my head in the sand. Yet I am not unaware, and it is not that I am insensitive to the news stories of the day, or to the suffering that is occurring. I simply refuse to let the drowning man (men), drown me!

'tis the first rule, in seeking to save the life of another!!! And good, common sense, practical wisdom!

As the Buddha said, "Never yet has hate conquered hate; only Love conquers hate."

Thus must disarmament be unilateral, and thus must the future be safeguarded for ALL, even the violent and mentally disturbed. The medicine and foreknowledge of the future will allow us to anticipate both - not perfectly, but with enough awareness to offset largescale disasters.

And indeed, once we stop selling plutonium to the terrorists, even their threat will become lessened. In the meantime, we have some ways to go until the One Human Family is like the Great Flock of which the Good Shepherd spoke ... missing but one lost sheep, here & there. At present, it seems the handful of World Servers must still contend with the greatest threat of all, still so prevalent - APATHY!

Only apathy allows the horrors that have been allowed to occur so recently. Only apathy allows them to continue. Therefore ... I think ... that

there's only one thing you can do and that's walk into
the shrink wherever you are, just walk in, say

"Shrink, You can get anything you want, at Alice's restaurant."

And walk out. You know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony, they may think they're both faggots and they won't take either of them. And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day, I said fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.

And that's what it is, the Alice's Restaurant Anti-Massacre Movement,
and all you got to do to join is sing it the next time it come's around on the guitar.

I hope EVERYBODY joins the Movement, and sings out strong! ... every single one of us!!!

Peace,

Andrew (taijasi)

flowperson · 06-09-2006, 12:00 AM

Give peace a chance.

Resist the temptation to attack others either with words, thoughts, acts, physical force, deceptive manipulations, wrongful images, or just the welling-up of intent.

Attacking another for his/her beliefs, appearance, or aspirations is, in the end, attacking oneself, for G-d has already connected us all. Only the forces of darkness seek to divide us and practice to engender hate and destruction among the separated.

Cleave to the light. Love one another for that is all that is required by the universe and the one that made it. In the beginning the One said, let there be light

flow....

wil · 06-09-2006, 12:24 PM

During the beginning of Gulf War II the sequel, I had the benefit of working downtown DC adjacent to the White House. James Twyman organized Peace Vigil's on the Ellipse at noon. I was able to go over during my lunch hour and sit or stand in the circle bathing the White House and executive office building with positive thoughts and energy, prayers for good decisions. As we realize that we create our world with our thoughts and attitudes it becomes apparant that by indicating someone or some body of individuals has certain positive or negative traits we influence that outcome of being true. Rarely were there over 30 people holding the space of positivity while the US and the world we sending completely devisive energy....hard to overcome the collective consciousness it is...(bad affirmation/cancel that)....be the change.

lunamoth · 06-09-2006, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

During the beginning of Gulf War II the sequel, I had the benefit of working downtown DC adjacent to the White House. James Twyman organized Peace Vigil's on the Ellipse at noon. I was able to go over during my lunch hour and sit or stand in the circle bathing the White House and executive office building with positive thoughts and energy, prayers for good decisions. As we realize that we create our world with our thoughts and attitudes it becomes apparant that by indicating someone or some body of individuals has certain positive or negative traits we influence that outcome of being true. Rarely were there over 30 people holding the space of positivity while the US and the world we sending completely devisive energy....hard to overcome the collective consciousness it is...(bad affirmation/cancel that)....be the change.

Excellent post wil. I so agree that we create our world with our thoughts and attitudes. You know, I can't say that I agree with our President about many things, but he was elected to lead and I pray for him and for all of our world's leaders and soldiers.

Now that we are a couple of weeks into this sit-in, I'd like say why I started this thread. It was three years ago that I saw our country rumbling slowly but surely along the path to an invasion in Iraq. I was frightened by the rhetoric, but I still did not feel we had good cause to enter that country. Now that we are in Iraq I do not think it's right to leave until there is some sort of stability established, although sometimes I wonder how that will ever come to be, and how we will ever be able to disentagle ourselves. I fully supoort our troops over there doing the necessary work, and I pray for them daily as well. I hope that in the end we leave it better than we found it.

Today I see the same thing happening with Iran. There are rumors and fear-mongering going on trying to drum up support for a war there. Perhaps the signs are not as clear as they were for Iraq, but the rhetoric is there and growing. There are problems in Iran, problems that threaten the region and problems that are hurting the citizens of that country. But I do not think that the answer is to keep going to war, bombing the heck out of the place, sending our children over there to kill and die or come back wounded one way or another. There has got to be another way, and I believe that way is going to involve some sacrifice of power and wealth on our part.

And I just wanted to say that.

China Cat Sunflower · 06-10-2006, 12:39 AM

You guys send out the positive thoughts, I'm too angry. I hope, I hope, I hope the Dems take back at least the house in November.

Chris

Vajradhara · 06-10-2006, 01:27 AM

Namaste Lunamoth,

just an aside... the invasion of Iraq and all of the Middle East, for that matter, has been something which the United States military has been planning for quite a bit of time. in what seems to be a life time ago, i was personally involved in drawing up said plans.

the United States, and other militaries around the world, plan invasion scenarios for nearly every other nation on the globe. this is a time tested method of strategic planning which is found advocated in several Taoist texts on martial strategy.

it just occurs to me that i should start a different thread to complete the rest of my thoughts on this.

sorry for the tangent

metta,

~v

lunamoth · 06-10-2006, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Namaste Lunamoth,

just an aside... the invasion of Iraq and all of the Middle East, for that matter, has been something which the United States military has been planning for quite a bit of time. in what seems to be a life time ago, i was personally involved in drawing up said plans.

the United States, and other militaries around the world, plan invasion scenarios for nearly every other nation on the globe. this is a time tested method of strategic planning which is found advocated in several Taoist texts on martial strategy.

it just occurs to me that i should start a different thread to complete the rest of my thoughts on this.

sorry for the tangent

metta,

~v

Hello Vaj,

That does not suprise me. I'm sure that our military has plans for lots and lots of scenarios, probably including invasion by interplanetary aliens (I'm not joking). What worries me is when the propaganda starts to leak into the media. This signals that these plans might soon become reality and the public is being prepared for it.

Your Cambodia thread has certainly hit home for me but I do not think I will be replying in that thread. It is so tempting to think yes, lets send in the troops and save those people <start sarcasm> because that has worked so well for us the past <end sarcasm.> I think there are times when that is the right thing to do and your Cambodia example may be one of them, but it really needs to be a united world effort. The current example in Darfur shows just how complicated these cases can be. Not only are some of the 'big gun' countries like Russia, the USA, France, and Britain tied up with conflicting interests, but the surrounding African nations are ambivalent about stopping the violence.

It's not a matter of preventing war. Sadly, the wars are already started. What is needed is a strategy for peace. And that's going to take some sacrifice on our part.

lunamoth