The Great Spirit

[The Jaded Fool]

Hey all...

I was just reading through the thread about the christian God and the islamic God... and it got me thinkin... I do not see a section here about Native American religions and beliefs... I remember reading "Arrow to the Sun"... and thinking to myself how much it mirrored the story of Jesus...

Just something to think about... And if there is an area for discussion of Native American religions please point me in that direction...

Peace

[flowperson]

Jaded...We really haven't had a discussion recently regarding Native American beliefs to my recollection. I'm not much of an information source on it other than to say that different tribal nations had differing beliefs in specificity, but that they usually all held that the world around them was animated by a single underlying spiritual force that respected all life, and which enabled "the people" to survive within nature if they heeded its signs and seasons.
You might wish to obtain and read books by the late Vine DeLoria, a Native American and professor at the University of Colorado. I especially enjoyed and benefitted from reading his book, G-d Is Red.

flow....

[The Jaded Fool]

Thanx Flow!!

[wil]

Namaste Jaded,

This place is completely poster driven...and you are right we lack posters of Native American thought...

I get to dabble in it in scouting with my son, when they have services it is called Scout's Own and often revolves around Native teachings, respect for nature....as we are out in the woods camping...and the scouts consider it I suppose fairly non threatening and non denominational...and as you indicated there exist plenty of similar stories, parables and metaphor.

I'd enjoy some discussion on those lines....

[The Jaded Fool]

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste Jaded,

This place is completely poster driven...and you are right we lack posters of Native American thought...

I get to dabble in it in scouting with my son, when they have services it is called Scout's Own and often revolves around Native teachings, respect for nature....as we are out in the woods camping...and the scouts consider it I suppose fairly non threatening and non denominational...and as you indicated there exist plenty of similar stories, parables and metaphor.

I'd enjoy some discussion on those lines....

Awesome... I am going to pick up a copy of God is Red... the book Flow suggested... I will try to get a discussion rolling =)

Peace

[InLove]

Hi Jaded--

Here's a very helpful link. If you are interested in something less general, let me know. I have quite a few.

Seeking Native American Spirituality and Traditional Religion: Read This First!

InPeace,
InLove

[17th Angel]

I tried to start in the Ancient/myth forum area a thread about the native Indian religion and way of life... It didn't really get that far... But yeah... Good luck with that, would be an interesting read...

[Dondi]

This is a thread I posted in from another Christian board that I think is conducive to the topic. Some of my inquiries weren't answered, but it is interesting nonetheless:

Dondi OP: I'm asking this of Christian Indians, for the most part, but I'm open to other views.

What does the Native American Culture speak in relation to the Great Spirit that I alway hear in conjunction with some tribes? Is this a universal concept among Native Americans? If you converted to Christ, do you still, regard the Great Spirit? Is the Great Spirit God?

Various responses:

1) Hmn.... it would really depend on the particular people. Some 'tribes' were monothiestic and their beliefs sounded extremely close to the One God of the Abrahamic religions. Some were polythiestic, some were panthiestic.

Myself, I believe the Great Spirit is/was THE God.


2) My mother was Choctaw, my father was African-American.
From what I've learned from my mother's mother (and my great-grandmother), and by talking to other native peoples, I would say that no, the Great Spirit is not God as we know Him.
The "Great Spirit" often referenced by various native people's has more in common with pagan nature gods than with the Christian God.

Dondi: But wouldn't finding God in nature be similar to Romans 1:19-20:

"Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

Aren't the Native Americans just trying to understand God from this testamony of nature? That even though they may not have the written word, they at least have God's creation as a witness?

3) I have always believed the Great Spirit either dead closely resembles God or virtually is God. Having studied my background and always being amazed with my ancestors cultures, I firmly believe that they were a very spiritual and intimate people when it came to God. They knew the Great Spirit and credited It with everything and all things. True, some NA tribes did lean towards a more pantheistic and pagan view, but a lot of times it almost seemed catholic in the sense that there were spirits to and in everything, which we respect, sort of like the patron saints of causes, peoples and cultures for catholics today. While this does not prove the Great Spirit to be our Christian God and Father, I like to think it opens many doors to proving the NAs were on a beautiful and spiritual path leading towards the One True God.

4) I vote yes, because I am native american. We believe that the Great Spirit is another name for God.\

Dondi: Thank you for your responses.

I was also wondering, is there was some kind of saying or proverb among Native Americans similiar to the Golden Rule?

5) Some of my ancestry was Cheyenne, and of course I have studied into their religion abit, as well as Lakota, which is quite similar.
Their understanding of the Great Spirit very closely resembles that of Christianity, and much of their basic religion does as well, although there are a few particular ceremonies and beliefs that are clearly pagan.
But when they decide to convert to Christianity, it is not a very far leap for them, and what they understand of the Great Spirit is merely clarified and enhanced.
The Navajo, on the other hand, whom I am currently working with, have a whole different kind of religion, involving mostly evil and coercable spirits who have little regard for the well-being of the people, and their understanding of afterlife is way different.
There is no Great Spirit with them, only a peculiar set of deities whodid the creating.
That said, some of their creation 'myths' (I hesitate to use that term), do find some correspondance with that of the Bible, including the flood of Noah.

6) I'm from the Choctaw's that were originally in what is now Louisianna and intermarried with the English to avoid being moved to a reservation out west: not sure if you call that East or mid-west, lol. It's more south. I don't know specifically what my tribe believes, but I personally believe that God is the Great Spirit. I once attended a native american worship service (at a Christian retreat) where we put all of our worries in a piece of cloth and after sharing what we put in the cloth with the Great Spirit, either out loud or silently, we tossed it in the campfire. I felt God so closely, so intensely, that they have to be the same. But that's just me. I also enjoyed worshipping the way my ancestors might have worshipped.

Dondi: That almost seems to parallel the idea of atonement in laying one's sins upon an altar of sacrifice. I recall how Rahab tied a scarlet cloth upon her window as a sign to the spies she helped escape, that the promise to rescue her and her household may be fulfilled when the Israelites conquered the city of Jericho. Rahab, a foreigner to the Hebrew God, believed the God of Israel for her salvation, though she was a harlot. She may not have understood the provision of God fully in her understanding, but believed God and it was accounted to her for righteousness (i.e. the faith of Abraham before the Law). It is no accident that she is mentioned in Hebrews 11 as one of the great examples of faith.


Dondi:
Do you think the parallels of Native American thoughts about the Great Spirit with God are enough to bring them to God?

8) Indeed I do. They already possess the type of thinking necessary to do so. I'd term it an eastern mindset, as their thinking agrees more with that mindset rather than the western mindset.

And that western mindset is likely why they were so misunderstood as are most eastern views of a metaphysical nature.

Native Americans were the first to accept christianity from the Orthodox christians from the east, in Alaska.

9) To better understand the relationship between the Native American concept of the Great Spirit, or as the Lakota say, Tunka'sila Waka'n Ta'nka (translated as, "Grandfather Great Mystery") and the Christian concept of God, I can recommend reading a book I read some years ago titled:

"The Pipe and Christ: A Christian-Sioux Dialogue" by Fr. William Stoltzman, S.J., Tipi Press, Chamberlain, SD, 1991.

After six years of monthly meetings with the holy men and pastors on Rosebud Reservation in South Dakota,(from 1980 to 1986 if I remember correctly), Fr. Stoltzman compiled his notes and wrote this book showcasing the differences and similarities between Lakota rituals and Christian ceremonies.

Chapters included are:
"Lakota and Christian Views of God"
"On Lakota Spirits"
"Sundance and Paschal Mysteries"

[The Jaded Fool]

Hey Dondi...

THAT IS AWESOME!!!

Thanx

Peace

[Miss Amy]

Hi

I am also intersted and Native beliefs and religion. My half-sisters and brother are native. As well, I worked for a long time in a primarily native community. They believe very deeply and to watch them pray, dance and give offering to their religion is beautiful.

I have a great respect for how earth and nature based it is; however, I allways thought of the great spirit as primarily representing the earth so Thanks Dondi for the last comment.

Has anyone here ever had their totems done? It is similar to Tarot Cards in Theory but still completely different.

I wonder what the differences are between nativ culture in the US and here in Canda. There is a lot of difference between bands within Canada...