The Greatest Commandment

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Silas

Because apart from Christ and the grace of God we're evil.

I disagree Silas. Separate from God we are broken, ill, alienated, fallen...but not evil. We were created good. Knowing good and evil is the price of our self-consciousness apart from God...and getting past good and evil (through love) is the way back to the garden.

[Prober]

Originally Posted by InLove

Thank you guys, for the spiritual food. Very much appreciated, especially in these confusing times. I'd like to add a Scripture, even though I know it doesn't say the word "love", it embodies it. Y'all have discussed how love is not always easy. And I thought of this:



Keepin' the faith....

InPeace,
InLove

Love ya InLove!

Thanks for your comment...

[Silas]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

I disagree Silas. Separate from God we are broken, ill, alienated, fallen...but not evil. We were created good. Knowing good and evil is the price of our self-consciousness apart from God...and getting past good and evil (through love) is the way back to the garden.

Do you believe God when He said that all your best work at it zenith, apart from Christ, is as filty rags? Do you believe Jesus who said "you being evil know how to give good?" Do you believe God when He stated in the psalms and Romans, 1, 2, and 3 (and else where), that we all are murders for lack of opportunity? Or, do you still think that your goodness is actually good in God's Holy eyes?

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Silas

Do you believe God when He said that all your best work at it zenith, apart from Christ, is as filty rags?

1. God is Love.
2. 1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not love, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
3. I'm not sure exactly which passage ascribed to Jesus you are paraphrasing here, but in short the answer to your question is...yes. We can do nothing in the name of God that is not love, and anything done in love is of God.

Do you believe Jesus who said "you being evil know how to give good?"

9 "Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. (matt 7)

Hyperbole by Matthew. Compared to the unconditional love of God we don't come close.

Do you believe God when He stated in the psalms and Romans, 1, 2, and 3 (and else where), that we all are murders for lack of opportunity? Or, do you still think that your goodness is actually good in God's Holy eyes?

Paul knew very well how weak and fallen we are, which is why he expounded so much on the idea that the law illuminates sin, but through faith in Christ we are saved. Do we do bad things? Certainly. Are we rebellious, do we turn away from God and try to do things our way, and pay the price of this? Yup. Do we need God's grace to cover the gap between where we are and where we should be? Absolutely. Is there good and evil in the world? Yes, to deny so is to deny the suffering all around us, and to turn away from our responsibilities to love each other. But, are we evil? No. God made us all, He wants us all, He'll have us all, all in all.
:

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a human being. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But in this order: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." [c] Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. (1 Cor 15)

[Silas]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

1. God is Love.
2. 1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not love, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
3. I'm not sure exactly which passage ascribed to Jesus you are paraphrasing here, but in short the answer to your question is...yes. We can do nothing in the name of God that is not love, and anything done in love is of God.



9 "Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. (matt 7)

Hyperbole by Matthew. Compared to the unconditional love of God we don't come close.




Paul knew very well how weak and fallen we are, which is why he expounded so much on the idea that the law illuminates sin, but through faith in Christ we are saved. Do we do bad things? Certainly. Are we rebellious, do we turn away from God and try to do things our way, and pay the price of this? Yup. Do we need God's grace to cover the gap between where we are and where we should be? Absolutely. Is there good and evil in the world? Yes, to deny so is to deny the suffering all around us, and to turn away from our responsibilities to love each other. But, are we evil? No. God made us all, He wants us all, He'll have us all, all in all.
:

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a human being. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But in this order: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." [c] Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. (1 Cor 15)

??? + = You didnt answer the questions, you just put up verses that dealt with God's goodness. Where do you see in the Bible that we are called "good" or are good, apart from Christ?

[Prober]

I know that "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags".

But I prefer to " greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels" (Isaiah 61:10) and "a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. (2 Timothy 4:8)

[Prober]

Originally Posted by Silas

??? + =

Not trying to detract from your post, but this is cute.

[Silas]

Originally Posted by Prober

I know that "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags".

But I prefer to " greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels" (Isaiah 61:10) and "a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. (2 Timothy 4:8)

Amen. But having a healthy understanding of our depravity puts the grace of God where it ought to be in our lives whereby we may boast only in Him. The reason he clothes us in righteousness and the reason why He loves us is not due to anything in us but soely on His choice to love us. He is love therefore He loves. There is nothing in the sinner but sin and it is an abomination to justify the wicked (Pro 17:15). But God made Christ to be the propeitation or atoing sacarifice of sin whereby if we repent and trust in Him, He gets our sin and pays for it in his body and we get his righteousness whereby we can be justified before God and become worthy to come into his presence. All of salvation is a graceful gift of God that isnt merited by any of our worth. Understanding this truth - the truth of our worthlessness and our sin, at least to some degree, will make Christ more precious in our lives. Also, understand our sin in juxtapostion to God's holiness, will the song "amazing grace" make more sense.

[Silas]

Originally Posted by Prober

Not trying to detract from your post, but this is cute.

Not as cute as the "walking on egg shells" avatar. I just love that!

[Prober]

Originally Posted by Silas

All of salvation is a graceful gift of God that isnt merited by any of our worth. Understanding this truth - the truth of our worthlessness and our sin, at least to some degree, will make Christ more precious in our lives. Also, understand our sin in juxtapostion to God's holiness, will the song "amazing grace" make more sense.

Oh, man! Yeah, that's absolutely true, amazing and wonderful.

[Prober]

Originally Posted by Silas

Not as cute as the "walking on egg shells" avatar. I just love that!

Thanks.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Silas

??? + = You didnt answer the questions, you just put up verses that dealt with God's goodness.

Hi Silas, Sorry you're not getting it. Perhaps if we keep trying.

Originally Posted by Silas

Where do you see in the Bible that we are called "good" or are good, apart from Christ?

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, "Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make human beings in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, [a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created human beings in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.


I'm made in God's image, and so are you.

[Silas]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Hi Silas, Sorry you're not getting it. Perhaps if we keep trying.



1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, "Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make human beings in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, [a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created human beings in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.


I'm made in God's image, and so are you.

You qouted something before that fall and before sin. Question: Why do you think Jesus came? You're right about us being made in God's image!

[lunamoth]

OK, I checked out after the fall. Nope, I don't see where God called us evil. Just we know good and evil.

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

4 "You will not certainly die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"

10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."

11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"

12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."

13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?"
The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."

14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.

15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring [a] and hers;
he will crush [b] your head,
and you will strike his heel."

16 To the woman he said,
"I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you."

17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.

18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.

19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return."

20 Adam [c] named his wife Eve, [d] because she would become the mother of all the living.

21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove them out, he placed on the east side [e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Silas

Question: Why do you think Jesus came?

Ah, I 'll address this part after I give my girls their baths!