The Key to Revelation 7:4

neoxenos · 07-03-2004, 07:05 PM

Quote:

And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Revelation 7:4

Adam is ADM, or Aleph Daleth Mem.

Aleph has the Kabbalistic value = 1
Daleth has the Kabbalistic value = 4
Mem has the Kabbalistic value = 40

So, 144 (or 144,000) is the number of Adam.

Adam is symbolic, it is in reference to Adam Kadmon, the Cosmos Human, the Heavenly Man.

Thus, Revelation 7:4 means that those who become the Adam Kadmon will enter Heaven.

Likewise, the Twelve Tribes represent the Twelve Zodical Signs under which the self realization of the Adam take place.

Mus Zibii · 07-04-2004, 01:02 AM

Huh, I was expecting some big numerical theory, but that kinda makes sense. The Book of Revelation is so intensely mystic, I mostly avoid it.

neoxenos · 07-04-2004, 04:05 AM

Sorry to dissapoint.

Revelation is written for a Kabbalahist, which is ironic because the Christians threw out that stuff and Jews don't care about Revelation.

I picked this verse because an entire sect of Christianity is based off the fact that "144,000" will be saved, however they have read it in a literal form which is a mistake.

juantoo3 · 07-04-2004, 04:49 AM

Kindest Regards!

If I might add, notice that the tribe of Dan is omitted. This is made up for by the two half tribes of Joseph; Ephraim and Mannasseh.

I also hear it commonly misinterpreted "144,000 Jews." Please note, the tribe of Judah accounts for only 12,000. Even considering the tribes of Levi and Benjamin, only accounts for 36,000 Jews.

The remainder are composed of those from the "lost" tribes of Israel.

I, Brian · 07-04-2004, 10:00 AM

I'm curious - how does someone make a direct numercial connection between 1,440, and 144,000? Isn't it dangerous in numerology to start throwing away parts of a number for convenience? For example, there is marked difference between 1 and 10, and 12 is far different to either 1 or 2, or 1.2. Surely?

neoxenos · 07-04-2004, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I'm curious - how does someone make a direct numercial connection between 1,440, and 144,000? Isn't it dangerous in numerology to start throwing away parts of a number for convenience? For example, there is marked difference between 1 and 10, and 12 is far different to either 1 or 2, or 1.2. Surely?

In the Kabbalah, zeros are meaningless numbers (as far as I know anyway). The 22 characters in the Hebrew alphabet corresponds directly with the 22 Major Arcana of Tarot. There is no Arcane Zero or Zero Card and no character related to Zero.

If one wishes to reduce 144 or 1440 or 144000, simply add up the numbers that composes itself recursively until a number less than 23 is reached. In this case we reach 9 regardless (1+4+4+any number of zeros).

So Adam is related with the Ninth Arcanum, the Hermit. Also Adam is related with the Ninth Sphere of Hell, and the Ninth Sephira, Yesod. Which means, in synthesis, we need to die (Hell) and we need to reborn (Yesod).

I, Brian · 07-05-2004, 02:14 PM

Is the Fool not a Zero card? Or have I been far too long away from a Taro deck - and risking a little re-educating here.

Also - I'm not sure if you've ever looked at it in this way, but have you never counted by numericals represented, as well as the constituent numericals within a numberical? For example, is 144,000 not a set of 6 numericals, and therefore "6-ness" is applied specifically to the number? Hence what separates 144,000 from 144 - 12x12.

I never really entered numerology - Crowley saw to that - so I'm sort of explornig the concepts of the discussion here.

bananabrain · 07-05-2004, 02:52 PM

ahem - i'm not aware of adam being yesod. yesod is more properly associated with joseph. adam kadmon is associated with the entire Tree and/or keter.

gematria (jewish numerology) is a very malleable discipline and, therefore, has no status other than as an asmakhta (support) - in other words, if it supports what you're saying, fair dos, but it is not to be relied on for authority by any means. also, the zero is only meaningless in gematria because it would not have a letter attached to it, the smallest unit being an aleph, or 1. however, 1 is not the same as 10, or as 100, although it can be 1000. you can have a difference of one (ie an aleph) which is "close enough for rock and roll". the "adam" gematria works, though.

Quote:

Also - I'm not sure if you've ever looked at it in this way, but have you never counted by numericals represented, as well as the constituent numericals within a numberical? For example, is 144,000 not a set of 6 numericals, and therefore "6-ness" is applied specifically to the number? Hence what separates 144,000 from 144 - 12x12.

OK, but in gematria letter equivalence is how things are done, not by constituent numericals, so i can't see that working.

b'shalom

bananabrain

neoxenos · 07-06-2004, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Is the Fool not a Zero card? Or have I been far too long away from a Taro deck - and risking a little re-educating here.

Also - I'm not sure if you've ever looked at it in this way, but have you never counted by numericals represented, as well as the constituent numericals within a numberical? For example, is 144,000 not a set of 6 numericals, and therefore "6-ness" is applied specifically to the number? Hence what separates 144,000 from 144 - 12x12.

I never really entered numerology - Crowley saw to that - so I'm sort of explornig the concepts of the discussion here.

Brian,

The Fool as the Zero Card, in my opinion, in an adulteration. Not all Tarot decks agree, as many people think believe they know how to make it better (Crowely, and many New Age sects). The Egipcios Kier Deck is nearly flawless, however, in my opinion. It has 21 and 22 mixed up. 21 is Transmutation or The Fool. He (21) either is has victory in transmuting lead into gold or he becoms The Fool. The Fool must begin again, however, it should not be noted as Zero.

I cannot comment on numerology, I do not know it.

bananabrain,

Quote:

Originally Posted by bananabrain

ahem - i'm not aware of adam being yesod. yesod is more properly associated with joseph. adam kadmon is associated with the entire Tree and/or keter.

I only meant to state that Adam has a beginning in Yesod, not that it is Adam itself.

Marsh · 07-06-2004, 02:33 AM

By the way, does anyone know what happened to Dan? And why is Joseph counted? When the Israelites were numbered in the book of Numbers, Ephraim and Manasseh took Joseph's place. How is it that there can be such a thing as the tribe of Joseph AND the tribe of Manasseh, when Manasseh was half of Joseph's tribe? I have a feeling that someone who knows their Jewish history will be able to answer these questions for me.

bananabrain · 07-07-2004, 10:58 AM

i don't think i know why the tribe of joseph was split into the half-tribes of ephraim and manasseh. might have something to do with making up the numbers of the sons of jacob given that the levites weren't a regular tribe. i do believe that sometimes one or other half-tribe is conflated with the entire tribe of joseph though.

and as for the danites, what do you mean, what happened to them? they were one of the lost ten tribes that were taken off into exile when the first kingdom of israel was destroyed and only the kingdom of judah remained.

Quote:

I only meant to state that Adam has a beginning in Yesod, not that it is Adam itself.

well, if you want to get biological about it, then, yes, i dare say adam does have a beginning in yesod - but also in tiferet when referred to as rahamim. i still don't quite understand what point you're making, maybe i'm being dense.

b'shalom

bananabrain

juantoo3 · 07-07-2004, 04:42 PM

Kindest Regards, bananabrain!

Thank you for your post!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bananabrain

as for the danites, what do you mean, what happened to them? they were one of the lost ten tribes that were taken off into exile when the first kingdom of israel was destroyed and only the kingdom of judah remained.

It is my understanding that Dan was ousted from the Holy Land long before the carrying away of the ten tribes. Something to do with an internal war that also involved Benjamin. Some extra-Biblical sources I have read long ago (mind stretch, I don't recall exactly where) associated Dan with the Greek city-state of Troy. That is, the Trojans were of Dan. Others say Dan went deep into Europe, evidenced by the many place-names that associate with Dan, such as the Danube river and Danmark (Denmark). I am guessing you may not be familiar with any of this.

Marsh · 07-07-2004, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bananabrain

and as for the danites, what do you mean, what happened to them?

I mean why are they missing from the list in Revelation? Everyone else is there, but Manasseh seems to have taken their place.

bananabrain · 07-08-2004, 04:20 PM

i don't know anything about revelation as it's not in my canon. could be maybe john of patmos had had one too many mushrooms that day?

b'shalom

bananabrain

Mus Zibii · 07-08-2004, 11:36 PM

The original apologetics was that he was on his death bed and was drinking the last drink of Jesus, absinthe, wormwood and wine. How that ever made it into Christian tradition is beyond me. That was before the puritans, obviously.