The Message

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste Cyberpi,

Those are not my words, they are The Message Bible's interpretation of what Jesus said. You may choose to hear or judge Jesus's words or mine.

Am I talking to the bible, or am I talking to you? I am asking you, do you wish me to judge your words? Yes, it is my choice and I am asking you what your will is... do you, or do you not, wish to be judged by me?

[wil]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Am I talking to the bible, or am I talking to you? I am asking you, do you wish me to judge your words? Yes, it is my choice and I am asking you what your will is... do you, or do you not, wish to be judged by me?

Namaste cyberpi,

Great question. And I don't mind hearing your opinion, but in truth first you can't judge me, and second what makes you think you have the right?

Oh, you can slander, libel, say I am wrong, state evidence to the contrary of what I say, but can you judge? I don't think so.

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by wil

Great question.

More than a question, and it still needs your judgment and answer.

By what authority do I judge?

[wil]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

More than a question, and it still needs your judgment and answer.

By what authority do I judge?

Only yours. Surely not by Jesus's authority. Your decision would be agreeing to the consequences of being judged by the same measure, not by me, or anyone else in this plane...

You have free will.

[cyberpi]

More than a question, and it still needs your judgment and answer. I am asking you, do you wish me to judge your words? Yes, it is my choice and I am asking you what your will is... do you, or do you not, wish to be judged by me?

[wil]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

More than a question, and it still needs your judgment and answer. I am asking you, do you wish me to judge your words? Yes, it is my choice and I am asking you what your will is... do you, or do you not, wish to be judged by me?

And I've repeatedly asked you, by what right do you feel you are compelled and qualified to do so? Have you been annointed by G!d for this task? What is this inherent need when your elder brother and wayshower indicates the risk is not worth it. Best to look for your log whilst I work on mine.

You need not my permission and any encouragement on my part, according to scripture could be the unraveling of your salvation, I surely do not wish to take part in that.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

More than a question, and it still needs your judgment and answer. I am asking you, do you wish me to judge your words? Yes, it is my choice and I am asking you what your will is... do you, or do you not, wish to be judged by me?

As steel sharpens steel, so does one brother bring another up to righteousness. Be my brother's keeper, and I will be yours.

That too is biblical.

v/r

Q

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by wil

And I've repeatedly asked you, by what right do you feel you are compelled and qualified to do so? Have you been annointed by G!d for this task?

By what right do you feel you are compelled and qualified to love? Have you been annointed by G!d for the task?

Originally Posted by wil

What is this inherent need when your elder brother and wayshower indicates the risk is not worth it.

If Jesus said it is not worth it, then why do seek his judgment?

Originally Posted by wil

Best to look for your log whilst I work on mine.

Is the log in my eye when I seek the judgment from others, or when I reject their judgment? If I give something that I do not see, then I am a fabricating liar. If I give something that I do see, then I speak the truth. But if you do not wish to receive from me, then must I give?

Originally Posted by wil

You need not my permission and any encouragement on my part, according to scripture could be the unraveling of your salvation, I surely do not wish to take part in that.

If your enemy loves those who love them, and you love everyone, then who is going to hate you? If Jesus tells you to turn the other cheek, then what will you do to have been punched or slapped in the first place?

I receive as I give, and I like what I receive. If you do not wish to receive, then I think Jesus says to not give. But if you do not wish to receive from me, then I will not give to you. Judgment.

[wil]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

By what right do you feel you are compelled and qualified to love? Have you been annointed by G!d for the task?

If Jesus said it is not worth it, then why do seek his judgment?

If your enemy loves those who love them, and you love everyone, then who is going to hate you? If Jesus tells you to turn the other cheek, then what will you do to have been punched or slapped in the first place?

Namaste cyberpi,

As I see it, read it, understand it, we've all been anointed by G!d thru the words attributed to Jesus, to love one another. Am I qualified, I'd like to work on that certification, till then I'll practice.

I don't seek Jesus's judgment.

As for that last sentiment. Tis quite interesting how many folks who we run into that believe that things like health, wellness and peace on earth would simple destroy our economies that are based on sickness, dis ease, violence and war. I would love to live in the world where we all understand that we have no enemies and we all love each other unconditionally. Nirvana, Utopia, Heaven. No disrespect but the fact that you put into words that we somehow have to instigate somehow have to instigate situations to allow us to turn the other cheek is quite funny. (of course maybe I've just done so.)

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by wil

Am I qualified, I'd like to work on that certification, till then I'll practice.

Then truly helping others would mean helping others achieve... achieve their certification.

Originally Posted by wil

I don't seek Jesus's judgment.

Are you sure? I do. Yours too.

Originally Posted by wil

As for that last sentiment. Tis quite interesting how many folks who we run into that believe that things like health, wellness and peace on earth would simple destroy our economies that are based on sickness, dis ease, violence and war.

If judgment is not spoken then the stones will speak. Violence and war will come when people will not judge and hear judgment.

Originally Posted by wil

I would love to live in the world where we all understand that we have no enemies and we all love each other unconditionally.

I would like for people to learn that judgment is a part of loving and being loved. But decide for yourself, do you or do you not, want me to keep judging you?

Originally Posted by wil

Nirvana, Utopia, Heaven. No disrespect but the fact that you put into words that we somehow have to instigate somehow have to instigate situations to allow us to turn the other cheek is quite funny. (of course maybe I've just done so.)

If I command a dog then my words do instigate. Who are you calling a dog? A purpose of judgment is to inform, not to instigate violence.

[mee]

Happy are the merciful, since they will be shown mercy. matthew 5;7

[wil]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Then truly helping others would mean helping others achieve... achieve their certification.

If judgment is not spoken then the stones will speak. Violence and war will come when people will not judge and hear judgment.

I would like for people to learn that judgment is a part of loving and being loved. But decide for yourself, do you or do you not, want me to keep judging you?

If I command a dog then my words do instigate. Who are you calling a dog? A purpose of judgment is to inform, not to instigate violence.

Namaste Cyberpi,

Such a way with words you have. In reverse order. You use your unknown definitions to equate with your unspoken analogies and then accuse me of calling someone a dog. The stand up routine is wonderful!

If judgment is loving why would Jesus ask you to judge not? If you are a follower why are you so insistent on ignoring his direction?

Folks without sin are always invited to throw the first stone, just after they get the log out of their eye.

Achieve certification?? Do you get parchment to frame and hang?

I still say, I'll stick to encouraging by actions and discussion, not by berating, cajoling, and threatening. As I indicated to mee, if you have issues discussing the text from Luke which this thread is about, there are plenty of other threads on the board to participate in.

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by mee

Happy are the merciful, since they will be shown mercy. matthew 5;7

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought you to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So if Jesus calls the scribes and Pharisees hypocrites for omitting judgment, mercy, and faith... are we following Jesus when we personally omit either judgment, or mercy, or faith? I submit these are verbs in the personal relationship with a friend, and a stranger, and an enemy on the street. It is not a societal problem, it is an individual requirement in every relationship. It is convenient to drop any one of those three: judgment, or mercy, or faith... depending on the personal relationship. Jesus called hypocrite... literally called hypocrite those who dropped judgment, who dropped mercy, or who dropped faith. When society framents to leave the responsibility of judgment to one, mercy to another, and faith to yet another... do individuals really get to choose one over the other? I submit the scribes and Pharisees as individuals each presented one or the other depending on whether it was a friend, stranger, or enemy.

wil, despite your words and interpretation, I find that you do judge and apply words, which I consider is good.

I find that with an alleged enemy or where there is conflict: mercy, judgment, and faith can each tend to be absent. So if someone promotes one but not another then I have words. For example those who are at war with each other... when do they really stop and exchange words? There is judgment internal, but where is there an honest exchange of words across the line? Instead of open judgment, those involved in war are taught to hide from or lie to their enemy. Camoflage and decoy. Secrecy and propaganda. Open judgment is not easy, especially with an alleged enemy or an authority.

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by wil

You use your unknown definitions to equate with your unspoken analogies and then accuse me of calling someone a dog. The stand up routine is wonderful!

If I am incited to violence by judgment, then I compare myself to a dog. A dog does have ears.

Originally Posted by wil

If judgment is loving why would Jesus ask you to judge not? If you are a follower why are you so insistent on ignoring his direction?

My interpretation: If you don't want to be judged, then don't judge.

Originally Posted by wil

Folks without sin are always invited to throw the first stone, just after they get the log out of their eye.

You speak of punsihment, not judgment. Call it metaphor if you wish... did David not hurl a rock at the forhead of a giant? Is it not possible to judge without throwing a rock? Do you think judgment is only for one called a 'Son of David'?

Originally Posted by wil

Achieve certification?? Do you get parchment to frame and hang?

I don't know... what certification were you referring to working on? All I am saying is that helping someone else is more involved than a handout.

Originally Posted by wil

I still say, I'll stick to encouraging by actions and discussion, not by berating, cajoling, and threatening.

Yet those are your judgments... of what you consider to be berating, cajoling, or threatening.

Originally Posted by wil

As I indicated to mee, if you have issues discussing the text from Luke which this thread is about, there are plenty of other threads on the board to participate in.

Luke 19:40 And he answered and said unto them, "I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out."

[mee]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought you to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So if Jesus calls the scribes and Pharisees hypocrites for omitting judgment, mercy, and faith... are we following Jesus when we personally omit either judgment, or mercy, or faith? I submit these are verbs in the personal relationship with a friend, and a stranger, and an enemy on the street. It is not a societal problem, it is an individual requirement in every relationship. It is convenient to drop any one of those three: judgment, or mercy, or faith... depending on the personal relationship. Jesus called hypocrite... literally called hypocrite those who dropped judgment, who dropped mercy, or who dropped faith. When society framents to leave the responsibility of judgment to one, mercy to another, and faith to yet another... do individuals really get to choose one over the other? I submit the scribes and Pharisees as individuals each presented one or the other depending on whether it was a friend, stranger, or enemy.

Jesus often defended the Holy Scriptures against misuse, misinterpretation, and misrepresentation. The religious teachers of his day represented God’s Word in an unbalanced way. They put a lot of emphasis on observing the smallest particulars of the Mosaic Law but very little on applying the principles on which the laws were based. They thus encouraged a superficial form of worship, one concerned with outward appearances rather than with weightier matters—such as justice, mercy, and faithfulness. (Matthew 23:23


They were indeed blind guides