The Message

[cyberpi]

mee,
What would you say is the difference between justice and judgment, and between faith and faithfulness? I think the JW translation has some giant sized errors there. It completely alters the message. What is it translated from?

[LeoSalinas22]

hello cyberpi,

i want to get this right. so what you are saying is that judgement basically is to be frank or honest with someone? it makes so much more sense with this in mind because if there is anyone that i would want to judge me, then it would be God, because only through judgement would we learn from our mistakes. am i close?

[mee]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

mee,
What would you say is the difference between justice and judgment, and between faith and faithfulness? I think the JW translation has some giant sized errors there. It completely alters the message. What is it translated from?

so what are the giant sized errors then ?

[mee]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

mee,
What would you say is the difference between justice and judgment, and between faith and faithfulness? I think the JW translation has some giant sized errors there. It completely alters the message. What is it translated from?

Jehovah—The Source of True Justice and Righteousness

“The Rock, perfect is his activity, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice.”—DEUTERONOMY 32:4.

[mee]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

mee,
What would you say is the difference between justice and judgment, and between faith and faithfulness? I think the JW translation has some giant sized errors there. It completely alters the message. What is it translated from?

The breadth of God’s justice can better be understood by considering how the original-language words are used in the Bible. Interestingly, in the Scriptures there is no significant difference between justice and righteousness.

In the Hebrew Scriptures, three principal words are involved. One of these (mish·pat′) is often translated “justice.” The other two (tse′dheq and the related word tsedha·qah′) are in most cases rendered “righteousness.” The Greek word translated “righteousness” (di·kai·o·sy′ne) is defined as the “quality of being right or just.”

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

hello cyberpi,

i want to get this right. so what you are saying is that judgement basically is to be frank or honest with someone? it makes so much more sense with this in mind because if there is anyone that i would want to judge me, then it would be God, because only through judgement would we learn from our mistakes. am i close?

Yes I would say very close when looking up. I would extend on that though. If a person judges and voices their judgment then I have something to work with. Even if those judgments are lies or selfish attempts to control, I still have some information to work with.

I would extend that to helping someone. Not just children but the friend, neighbor, or person from the street where there can be found all manner of lies, scams, a lack of faith in others, paranoia, addictions, hatred, entrenched disorders, etc... But if I want to truly try to help a person who I think is lost for whatever reason, then judging and judgment is a part of it. Rebuke and praise. Placing faith, giving, and forgiving are requirements, but it is all wasted and unfruitful without judgment and rebuke. Speak for what you believe is true.

With God, yes... frank and honest is what I look for whether it is instruction, rebuke or praise. I have even paid good money to be rebuked and told over and over that I was wrong. Judge me. If eternal judgment is what I have, then I have eternal life. Yes one person's heaven is another person's hell. I find that true hell is the place without judgment. Without God's judgment. Why pray for little things when you can pray for judgment? That place where I even paid for judgment... that personal kind of judgment of everything that I had to say... full of judgmentalism in every room... full of rebuke on nearly every piece of paper that I wrote on, with just a single day of praise in the end... was college. College... the institution of judgmentalism... well worth the money it was. Is there someone giving it out for free? Where do I sign? If there is a teacher that will NOT judge me, and rebuke me, then I have mistakingly called him a teacher.

[LeoSalinas22]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Yes I would say very close when looking up. I would extend on that though. If a person judges and voices their judgment then I have something to work with. Even if those judgments are lies or selfish attempts to control, I still have some information to work with.

I would extend that to helping someone. Not just children but the friend, neighbor, or person from the street where there can be found all manner of lies, scams, a lack of faith in others, paranoia, addictions, hatred, entrenched disorders, etc... But if I want to truly try to help a person who I think is lost for whatever reason, then judging and judgment is a part of it. Rebuke and praise. Placing faith, giving, and forgiving are requirements, but it is all wasted and unfruitful without judgment and rebuke. Speak for what you believe is true.

With God, yes... frank and honest is what I look for whether it is instruction, rebuke or praise. I have even paid good money to be rebuked and told over and over that I was wrong. Judge me. If eternal judgment is what I have, then I have eternal life. Yes one person's heaven is another person's hell. I find that true hell is the place without judgment. Without God's judgment. Why pray for little things when you can pray for judgment? That place where I even paid for judgment... that personal kind of judgment of everything that I had to say... full of judgmentalism in every room... full of rebuke on nearly every piece of paper that I wrote on, with just a single day of praise in the end... was college. College... the institution of judgmentalism... well worth the money it was. Is there someone giving it out for free? Where do I sign? If there is a teacher that will NOT judge me, and rebuke me, then I have mistakingly called him a teacher.

hello cyberpi,
i know exactly what you mean with judgement. for some reason people think that judgement is left to God only but if we were to judge each other with God's wisdom, things would be a whole lot better. don't get me wrong though, God is the First and Last Judge that we should all be looking for and we should be seeking His Judgements beyond anything! thank you very much for your reply. it was very insightful and i learned a great deal by your posts about judgment. people shy away from doing this because they are taught a different meaning of what it means to judge. judging with God's Wisdom is a good thing. judging with half ass opinions? that is bad! sadly, most people judge the wrong way, but i guess things are supposed to be this way for now. anyhow, if you get the chance, judge me, my friend. i would really appreciate it. if you don't have enough information to judge me by, then please ask God to judge me. thanks for reading and God be with you.

[Azure24]

I don't know where this thread seems to be going, but from reading the first pages, do you think Jesus never spoke harshly, cruely, or with great anger in his voice?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Azure24

I don't know where this thread seems to be going, but from reading the first pages, do you think Jesus never spoke harshly, cruely, or with great anger in his voice?

Harshly? as in I want you to suffer? No. Harshly? as in you better listen to what I am saying? Yes.

Cruely? no, not even to the spirits that went into the swine, who went over the cliff.

With great anger? You bet, right after he turned over the tables at the temple, his anger was brought to the forefront when he addressed the Sanhedrin for allowing the temple of worship to become a market place...

v/r

Q

[wil]

Originally Posted by Azure24

I don't know where this thread seems to be going, but from reading the first pages, do you think Jesus never spoke harshly, cruely, or with great anger in his voice?

Namaste Azure,

Yeah, what he said.

But that isn't exactly my point. I'm contemplating whether folks would think this quote is a foundational statement of Jesus's. And if so how do we rate ourselves in relation to it.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste Azure,

Yeah, what he said.

But that isn't exactly my point. I'm contemplating whether folks would think this quote is a foundational statement of Jesus's. And if so how do we rate ourselves in relation to it.

Ok, what is the quote? I can't find it. just color me stupid...

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

judging with half ass opinions? that is bad!

I certainly see the trouble in mindless or half minded reactions, but I think helping identify them does require hearing them. I still speak and drive despite having blind spots.

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

i would really appreciate it. if you don't have enough information to judge me by, then please ask God to judge me.

I have found that God's judgment is available, and those verses that wil quoted indicate a bit of how: in the measure that you mete, it will be measured to you again. In other words it seems to me that each person needs to judge, whether right or wrong, and to seek and ask God for his judgment themselves. I also think it is there whether people see him or not. However, I have asked as you asked.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Ok, what is the quote? I can't find it. just color me stupid...

Namaste Q,

Now I wouldn't color you stupid, I don't even know what color that is...

But I was referring to the OP.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste Q,

But I was referring to the OP.

Luke 6:27-38 The Message (MSG)
27-30"To you who are ready for the truth, I say this: Love your enemies. Let them bring out the best in you, not the worst. When someone gives you a hard time, respond with the energies of prayer for that person. If someone slaps you in the face, stand there and take it. If someone grabs your shirt, giftwrap your best coat and make a present of it. If someone takes unfair advantage of you, use the occasion to practice the servant life. No more tit-for-tat stuff. Live generously...

Fun stuff.
Can I love my enemies?
Yes.
Is it easy?
Are you nuts?

You know stupid comes in hues.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Azure24

I don't know where this thread seems to be going, but from reading the first pages, do you think Jesus never spoke harshly, cruely, or with great anger in his voice?

he certainly showed righteous indignation.