The Messiah — Theosophy’s view

[radarmark]

Lunitik, my ego amazes me (see the J23 slapdown in "young earth") but yours really astounds me! Nowhere did EM relate that what you were referring to was something he read. And it does kinda matter which Bible (there are just so many) you are quoting from (both Abrahamic and non).

[Lunitik]

Originally Posted by radarmark

Lunitik, my ego amazes me (see the J23 slapdown in "young earth") but yours really astounds me! Nowhere did EM relate that what you were referring to was something he read. And it does kinda matter which Bible (there are just so many) you are quoting from (both Abrahamic and non).

It was a polite way of saying that his statement is utterly absurd.

First of all, it is not that the divine slows down... it is that we come into tune with its vibration. Secondly, his statement maintains duality, and thus is inaccurate even if it wasn't a nonsense.

You say this is ego, that's fine... I say it is your ego which finds issue with my words.

[seattlegal]

Logos can also mean "cause, or on account of."

Matthew 5:32

5:32 Ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι ὃς ἂν ἀπολύσῃ τὴν γυναῖκα αὑτοῦ, παρεκτὸς λόγου πορνείας, ποιεῖ αὐτὴν μοιχᾶσθαι καὶ ὃς ἐὰν ἀπολελυμένην γαμήσῃ, μοιχᾶται

But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Matthew 5 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)

[Lunitik]

The most fundamental aspect of divinity is that it is unchanging.

[Lunitik]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Logos can also mean "cause, or on account of."

Matthew 5:32

5:32 Ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι ὃς ἂν ἀπολύσῃ τὴν γυναῖκα αὑτοῦ, παρεκτὸς λόγου πορνείας, ποιεῖ αὐτὴν μοιχᾶσθαι καὶ ὃς ἐὰν ἀπολελυμένην γαμήσῃ, μοιχᾶται

But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Matthew 5 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)

Noun
λόγος (genitive λόγου) m, second declension; (logos)
That which is said: word, sentence, speech, story, debate, utterance.
That which is thought: reason, consideration, computation, reckoning.
An account, explanation, or narrative.
Subject matter.
(Christianity) The word or wisdom of God, identified with Jesus in the New Testament.

[radarmark]

Good addition, SG. Quite correct (regardless of previous posting, which displays an utter lack of knowledge of the greek).

[Lunitik]

In your quote, it probably means "saving the reason of fornication".

[Lunitik]

The wisdom of God is the nature of things, the underlying oneness of everything. If you want to use this definition it is fine, but the Bible was written in Greek so we should use the definition the Greeks had for it - not what it has warped into through Christian dogma.

If there is a text which shows the Aramaic and is closer to Sophia, it would give further credit to this theory. It says the word is God though, a more correct translation is probably "and the word is authority/master/lord" since Caesar is also called God in the Bible.

[Etu Malku]

Originally Posted by Lunitik

The wisdom of God is the nature of things, the underlying oneness of everything. If you want to use this definition it is fine, but the Bible was written in Greek so we should use the definition the Greeks had for it.

If there is a text which shows the Aramaic and is closer to Sophia, it would give further credit to this theory. It says the word is God though, a more correct translation is probably "and the word is authority/master/lord" since Caesar is also called God in the Bible.

Now who's quoting what he reads?

Your inane babblings are nothing more than distractions here.
First off I was quoting from the book I am writing on music and esotericism.
So they were my own words.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Lunitik

The wisdom of God is the nature of things, the underlying oneness of everything. If you want to use this definition it is fine, but the Bible was written in Greek so we should use the definition the Greeks had for it - not what it has warped into through Christian dogma.

If there is a text which shows the Aramaic and is closer to Sophia, it would give further credit to this theory. It says the word is God though, a more correct translation is probably "and the word is authority/master/lord" since Caesar is also called God in the Bible.

Sophia is Greek. Aramaic would be chokmah for wisdom, although a case might also be made for t@`em.
Aramaic for "word" could be millah, me'mar, or pithgam.

[seattlegal]

Ahh, found an excerpt from an Aramaic translation of John 1 here.

It doesn't give the Aramaic text here, only their translation. :/

In the beginning of creation, there was the Manifestation,
that Manifestation was with God,
and God was the embodiment of that Manifestation.
This was in the beginning with God.
Everything was within his power;
otherwise, nothing would ever exist.
Through him, there was Life,
and Life became the spark of humanity,
and that ensuing fire lights the darkness,
and darkness does not overshadow it.

[radarmark]

Not bad, SG. I needed one as I am trying to explore the nature of the Jesus Movement prior to Scripture (say 30-200 ce) John in Aramaic was missing. Though he still comes off as someone pretty handy with Greek thought! Thanks!

[Etu Malku]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Ahh, found an excerpt from an Aramaic translation of John 1 here.

It doesn't give the Aramaic text here, only their translation. :/

In the beginning of creation, there was the Manifestation,
that Manifestation was with God,
and God was the embodiment of that Manifestation.
This was in the beginning with God.
Everything was within his power;
otherwise, nothing would ever exist.
Through him, there was Life,
and Life became the spark of humanity,
and that ensuing fire lights the darkness,
and darkness does not overshadow it.

Nice . . . and the 'manifestation' could be termed The Word, and our spiritual pipeline from our mundane Self to the Divine would be the LOGOS.
Some say the soul acts as LOGOS, some say that music itself is a LOGOS to our Higher Self/Daimon

[seattlegal]

Now this is getting to be quite interesting. Now I'm off exploring, comparing, and contrasting the yin and yang of logos/light/manifestation/understanding with secret/dark/latent/potential and their interplay/transformation in different expressions of different scriptures. {That should keep me occupied for a while!}

[radarmark]

I believe that "word" and "manifestation" are translations of the more mundane sense of "logos". Perhaps the first two instances (one each). The third is higher... accepting EM's definition, the third line would be something like "And the Divine Self is the principle of that manifestation". "logos" would be neatly translated in three higher forms "word", "manifestation", and "principle" (this would be, as I understand it, the kind of thing St Jerome saw).