The Nephilim Race - Page 6

Nogodnomasters · 08-11-2005, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tropheus74

In addition, Nimrod was known as "The great hunter". For those anthropologists out there, this might tie him to a more ancient hunter gatherer tradition that survived into what was then "modern" memory.

As far as his descent: "The sons of Cush: Seba, Havilah, Sabtah, Raamah, and sabteca...Cush became the father of Nimrod; he was the first on earth to be a mighty man. He was a mighty hunter before the lord; therefore it is said "like Nimrod a mighty hunter before the Lord." The beginning of his kingdom was Babel, Erech and accad, all of them in the land of Shinar. From that land he went into Assyria, and built Nineveh, Rehoboath-Ir, Calah , and Resen between Nineveh and Calah; that is the great city." (Genesis 10:7--12)

What is interesting is that Cush "became the father of Nimrod", separate from the other 5. Does this mean he was an illegitamite and/or adoptive son? This may be where the reference to the Nephalim comes from. It seems he went on to produce most of the Villains of the bible (Babel, Assyria, and most of the other eastern warring nations of the Tigris/Euphrates).

I find it interesting that while Nimrod was mentioned to be a hunter, he is associated with the "enemy" cultures. This, along with the story of Cain, who made an offering of animal flesh before the lord, the rejection of which drove him to sin (Genesis 4:1--10), lend a fairly negative association with the practice of hunting. Another Indo-European religion, that of Krishna, based on the Bagvad Gita (pardon the spelling), also discourages hunting, to the point of putting a ban on the eating of meat. These clues really tickle me.

Compare this with the context; the most ancient cities, archeologically speaking, appear in the middle east, where gathering and herding became the driving force in cultural evolution.

Another important reference to Nimrod occurs in the Epic of Gilgamesh; Gilgamesh's buddy Enkidu was described as a great hunter. Together they fought Humbaba of the ceder forest. Could Enkidu be Nimrod with a different mask? I don't like to make loose associations, but it shows that the Sumer/Assyrian/Babylonian cultures would more readily celebrate hunting.

Let's bring this full circle, back to the Nephalim; can anyone reference the text and/or books so that I can do some of this research? I am extremely curious where this mythology is placed, given that the bible dedicates only a few lines to them in pre-flood genesis, then hints at them later (Nimrod, Goliath, etc.)

Just my 2 cents on goliath: I don't think he could be called a Nephalim; perhaps descended from them, but he was clearly a Philistine hero. The philistines were an Aegean people, referenced as "the Sea Peoples" in egyptian stories; They settled the coast of Palestine (whom derives its name from them) around 1200 BC; the late bronze/early iron age. If any of Nimrods descendants founded the greek world, then it is possible that Goliath was descended from the Nephalim. Otherwise, he can be viewed as a kind of Hercules/Gilgamesh type charecter.

By the way, I love to have references when something is posited.

How dare you demand references! You sure won't make many friends with this crowd. In my research about the Hebrew cosmic myth origin of the OT stories I have discovered (Hebrew Myths- Robert Graves/ Raphael Patai) the Hebrews equated Nimrod to fool and to Orion (the great hunter)> the explanation was this was to poke fun at those who worshipped the constellation Orion. Also in the same text one of the nephilim (Shemhazai) was hung upside down in the heavens, in the same contellation of Orion. Bullinger (Witness to the Stars) claims The Chaldean name for Orion was Niphla which I have not been able to confirm. The Jews called Orion "Gibbor" "The giant, considered Nimrod bound to the sky for rebellion against Jehovah..." (Graves) they also claim Nimrod derives from the Hebrew word "marod" "to rebel."

The main problem with the Biblical account is the origin of Nimrod as the son of "Cush." Cush was the Biblical name for Ethiopia and clearly Nimrod was Babylonian. Osiris was the Egyptian Orion. There is an Egyptian Cu****e story of Osiris as a great hunter who near death from starvation chased a ram (Amon/Aries) to an oasis. (Star Names Their Lore and Meaning- Richard Hinckly Allen). The Egyptian dictionary expalins Cush to mean "tomb RAM." Nimrod as Orion follows Aries (Cush) in the sky. In Egypt it was a chase. In Hebrew the story morphed to where Cush was the father. The oasis symbolized the coming of spring.

The original Hebrew name for Orion was Ke Sil which signified foolishness, impiosness, arragance, and rebellion. Arabs had various names for it meaning "the giant", The Strong One" and "The snake." (Allen)

The constellation Aries was associated with the Amorites and Assyria (Allen). Thus "Cush" as the father was most likely meant to be a symbol of the Ram and a methaphor for Assyria.

It all makes sense as a cosmic myth when we consider the syncretism that was going on.

I, Brian · 08-12-2005, 11:16 AM

Hi tropheus74, and welcome to CR.

tropheus74 · 08-13-2005, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogodnomasters

...the Hebrews equated Nimrod to fool and to Orion (the great hunter)> the explanation was this was to poke fun at those who worshipped the constellation Orion. ... Bullinger (Witness to the Stars) claims The Chaldean name for Orion was Niphla which I have not been able to confirm. The Jews called Orion "Gibbor" "The giant, considered Nimrod bound to the sky for rebellion against Jehovah..." (Graves) they also claim Nimrod derives from the Hebrew word "marod" "to rebel."

Wow! I'll have to check that book out. I'm assuming this is the same Robert Graves of "I, Claudius" fame...

In my own research, (and I don't speak hebrew) I have read (Practical Kabbalah, Rabbi Laibl Wolf) that the word "Neph" is the hebrew word for "breath" or "Soul" (as in breath of life, etc.) which could speak to the ethereal nature of the "Nephalim". The Chaldean word and the hebrew word could descend from the same linguistic root, and if the chaldeans worshipped orion then perhaps the name "Niphla" spoke to the divine nature of the constellation. I don't know, I'm just wondering alloud.

It could also be due to syncretism; it was not uncommon for similar sounding words in different languages to play on one another. For example, John Ferguson, in "The Religions of the Roman Empire" tells the story (originally told by Plutarch) of a Greek ship captain named Thammous. He states:

"As they were sailing close to the island of Paxi he heard a voice calling "Thamous". The voice told them to announce at a later stage of their journey 'Great Pan is dead'. They did, and the announcement was greeted with sorrow and anguish. This lamentation was typical of the annual mourning for Tammuz, and it seems that what they heard was not 'Thamous' but 'Tammuz'--'Tammuz, the All-great, is dead' (Pam-megas not Pan megas)."

Once again, off the subject of the Nephalim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogodnomasters

...The main problem with the Biblical account is the origin of Nimrod as the son of "Cush." Cush was the Biblical name for Ethiopia and clearly Nimrod was Babylonian...

If the hebrew concept of the shape of the world was anything like the ancient greeks, then this reference isn't too surprising. The greeks viewed the world as a disc, and "Cush" (south of Nubia) spread around the edge of the disc from south to east (thus, "the Hindu Cush"). I'm sorry, at this point I don't have my greek history text with me, so I must reference that awful Oliver Stone film "Alexander" as my reference point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogodnomasters

...Osiris was the Egyptian Orion. There is an Egyptian Cu****e story of Osiris as a great hunter who near death from starvation chased a ram (Amon/Aries) to an oasis. (Star Names Their Lore and Meaning- Richard Hinckly Allen). The Egyptian dictionary expalins Cush to mean "tomb RAM." Nimrod as Orion follows Aries (Cush) in the sky. In Egypt it was a chase. In Hebrew the story morphed to where Cush was the father. The oasis symbolized the coming of spring.

The original Hebrew name for Orion was Ke Sil which signified foolishness, impiosness, arragance, and rebellion. Arabs had various names for it meaning "the giant", The Strong One" and "The snake." (Allen)

The constellation Aries was associated with the Amorites and Assyria (Allen). Thus "Cush" as the father was most likely meant to be a symbol of the Ram and a methaphor for Assyria.

It all makes sense as a cosmic myth when we consider the syncretism that was going on.

Again, I MUST get a copy of these books. (argh..so much to read, and only about 80 years to cram it in)...

Chalice · 08-14-2005, 03:54 AM

I would like to explain my take on Genesis 5-8, or so, which is the story of Noah, and the "nephilim".

First of all, no one actually reads the TEXT, and that is the major point of confusion. But the TEXT is very clear about the nephilim, the "Sons of God" and mortal man - they were all separate groups, and the "Sons of God" who intermarried with the earth women are NOT ONE TIME mentioned as EVIL at all in any portion of the text.

To begin with, Genesis 5 is a GEANOLOGY, that gives us the fatherly line going down to Noah, so we know Noah's fathers family history, fully human, clear back to Adam.

Genesis 6 tells the story of how, since the time of ADAM the "Sons of God" intermarried with earth's women, and their children became the MEN OF RENOWN, THE HEROES OF OLD. Why does the Noahide story include this, if it has nothing specifically to do with Noah? In fact it does have to do with his maternal geanology - and explains to us why Noah had communication with God, and could understand how to build the ark, and how he had the strength and life span to do so: He was a descendent of a "Sons of God"/earth woman marriage on his mother's side. NOAH WAS A MAN OF RENOWN, A HERO OF OLD. This is the entire reason WHY this explanation is given in Genesis 6 -it has no business there if it has nothing to do with Noah, his geanology and his special abilities. The "Sons of God" are NOT evil, and are in no way related to the "nephilim", which translates as GIANTS, another group on earth at the time.

The reason the "nephilim"/giants are mentioned is because people did not have any way of identifying the times in which they lived - they could not say "5000 years prior to the Christian era", or "During the reign of King so and so", because nothing had happened yet - except that they lived in an age when giants roamed the earth - they identified their "time" with these giants. The Bible, in Genesis 6 is silent on what the nephilim were, and does NOT tell us they were evil either - just read the TEXT and you will see this is true. The neophilim may have been beings like the Titans of greek myth, or they may have been the dinosaurs, but nothing more is said about them than that they were there during the era of this story.

The third group was "man" - people who did not have ANY "Sons of God" heritage, and descended entirely from human genes. These were the people that inherited Adam and Eve's ability and desire to sin, and their sins caused alot of grief upon earth. These were the people who God desired to destroy. Those whose daughters married the "Sons of God" had at least half the genetic code to honor God and be good, but alas, their other half still desired to sin, so we have beings who had miraculous powers, but an inclination toward mischief. The MEN OF RENOWN, HEROES OF OLD are really the beings that are remembered in much of mythology, and they are not myths, according to the Bible: They were historical people who existed on earth as descendents of the "Sons of God" and their earthly wives.

When God wiped out the earth with the flood, he saved one family - a family who had both divine heritage and genes, and human heritage and genes. When the ark landed, it landed upon a mountain top surrounded by water, an island. Later the water drained away, making for a mountain top society. Noah offered God a sacrifice outside the ark, his home. He and his family lived and worshiped in the ark, which was at the same time a temple and a home. They had children, who considered Noah their priest, king, magistrate, ruler, governor. As the families expanded and the water drained away, they forgot about Noah's God, and began worshipping him and his sons and their wives as gods and goddesses. In fact the word "god" with a small "g" literally means "ruler, magistrate, governor, priest, king, heavenly messenger, and sometimes idol" in hebrew. Noah and his family had positions such as these as their new society expanded, for they lived many years. The Bible only gives us a glimps at their life just after the flood but has no space to go into great detail. We get our details from the histories their descendents wrote about them, which the christian church labeled as mythology.

Eventually people lived at the bottom the the mountain, on the Plain of Shinar, and during the life of Peleg, the "earth split", in other words, the supercontinent of Pangea split and many continents formed, and the tower of Babel fell down. This event is an earth quake and the early rumbles no doubt caused the Tower of Bable to fall. When this happened the languages were also divided, and the people who remembered the pantheon of Noah and his wife, sons and so forth, had new words and names to describe their "rulers" on the mountain top. This is why the Teutons have their gods/goddesses live on top of a mountain in a castle called Valhallah, while the Greeks have their gods/goddesses live in a temple on Mt. Olympus. Other societies chose to remember the family upon the "island" (before the flood waters drained away), or even under water (while the ark was being tossed at sea). These stories are remembered as Atlantis, and in Asian "myth" histories. Many cultures have a rainbow in their creation or deity myths, reflecting that many groups counted this as a message from Noah, heaven and so forth. The Germans even believed that the rainbow was a "bridge" back to heaven. In some asian religions, goddesses dwell on the bridge, and created the world from there.

The Nephilim DO NOT EXIST TODAY. Fundamentalist Christian writers who enjoy making alot of money at the expense of those who do not read the Biblical text carefully create these stories of fear and terror so that you will purchase their book and buy their take on the story. But you have eyes and a mind! So read the Text and you wont have to read their jumbled and off kilter opinions. If you have not noticed, many christian web sights are selling million dollares in books on the "evil nephilim" or the "left behind" series - all fiction based on what the author "thinks" may happen, or "thinks" did happen, without ever consulting other "histories" from other ancient cultures who also meticulously wrote down what they remembered and valued about the stories.

If you want to really know that I am right, purchase a good book on world Mythology, a STRONG'S EXHAUSTIVE CONCORDANCE to look up the word nephilim and other significant words in the Biblical text, and as you read the myths, the Biblical text, and the correct translations, think of what I am telling you about Noah and his family, including reading the Biblical TEXT of Genesis 5, 6, and 7 (maybe 8) - you will see that I am correct. Remember to look up the word God, and god, (big G, and little g), and you will find that while God means self existant/uncreated first being, god means "ruler, magistrate, governor, priest, king, heavenly messenger, and sometimes idol". In this context you and I are gods, while we are not God. WE have been given power to rule and govern things in our lives, such as money, kids, job, home and so forth. So did Noah. His descendents just slipped into idolatry of him and his family as a pantheon, because they forgot about God with a big G, and this is how pantheon systems formed. You will also find that world pantheons have dieties that do very similar things, even though their names have changed: while the languages changed, the deities and their duties did not change, even over long periods of time (some may have been combined etc.)

Now consider this: you and I are descended FROM Noah, we are his descendents, because all others of mankind were destroyed. We too belong to this "Sons of God" heritage, and are half mortal and half divine, because of Noah's heritage. We have inherited the ability to do miraculous things as well, but we do not know it. Christ knew this and he taught that "anyone who believes in me will be able to do greater things than I did while upon earth". Faith in Christ turned on Noah's full powers, which is why the text says that Noah walked with God (he had faith in the pre-incarnate Christ, who is named Jehovah); We too can believe in Christ and turn our natural miracle working powers on, our divine heritage. YOu ahve the power through Christ to be miraculous because of this story. Some people in the neo-pagan movement have discovered that they have "powers" but have not discovered how to super-power their abilities through Christ. But if you read the text, and then listen to Christ, you do! Isnt that Great News?

Nogodnomasters · 08-14-2005, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tropheus74

Wow! I'll have to check that book out. I'm assuming this is the same Robert Graves of "I, Claudius" fame...

In my own research, (and I don't speak hebrew) I have read (Practical Kabbalah, Rabbi Laibl Wolf) that the word "Neph" is the hebrew word for "breath" or "Soul" (as in breath of life, etc.) which could speak to the ethereal nature of the "Nephalim". The Chaldean word and the hebrew word could descend from the same linguistic root, and if the chaldeans worshipped orion then perhaps the name "Niphla" spoke to the divine nature of the constellation. I don't know, I'm just wondering alloud.

It could also be due to syncretism; it was not uncommon for similar sounding words in different languages to play on one another. For example, John Ferguson, in "The Religions of the Roman Empire" tells the story (originally told by Plutarch) of a Greek ship captain named Thammous. He states:

"As they were sailing close to the island of Paxi he heard a voice calling "Thamous". The voice told them to announce at a later stage of their journey 'Great Pan is dead'. They did, and the announcement was greeted with sorrow and anguish. This lamentation was typical of the annual mourning for Tammuz, and it seems that what they heard was not 'Thamous' but 'Tammuz'--'Tammuz, the All-great, is dead' (Pam-megas not Pan megas)."

Once again, off the subject of the Nephalim.

If the hebrew concept of the shape of the world was anything like the ancient greeks, then this reference isn't too surprising. The greeks viewed the world as a disc, and "Cush" (south of Nubia) spread around the edge of the disc from south to east (thus, "the Hindu Cush"). I'm sorry, at this point I don't have my greek history text with me, so I must reference that awful Oliver Stone film "Alexander" as my reference point.

Again, I MUST get a copy of these books. (argh..so much to read, and only about 80 years to cram it in)...

Yes the same Robert Graves. Hebrew Myths is a hard copy to obtain,it is long out of print, although some of it has been reproduced on line in bulk.

Rouge47 · 08-20-2005, 09:26 PM

Bonjour!

Once again I forgot all about my thread and when I finally logged in again I couldn't believe my eyes

!

I have just created a new group on Yahoo called Faith Exloration. Its a bible study group. If anyone wishes to join just PM your e-mail addresses and I'll send you an invite ASAP. We have polls, chat rooms, and PM's. Our current poll question is, "Is 'The War on Terrorism' the best way to handle things now that 9/11 is overwith?

A biento!
Paul
p.s. Im taking french classes!

Rouge47 · 08-25-2005, 10:42 PM

Oh and by the way I finished my thesis on the Nephilim! I would like to thank you all for the wonderful information. I made an A+ with a 100% completion.

Thanks again for everything,
Paul James

Satanist · 08-29-2005, 06:16 AM

My personal thought.

The Nephilim are polytheistic Gods of a religion worshiped before the deluge
and the deluge sent them out of bussiness.
The deluge was a war between gods of the flood and nature against the Gods that developed into the christian religion.

I think the angels and the Nephilim are the same.
Half-god halv man, not children of angels and therefore kind of
Messiahs.

Becouse I think the angels developed from Zoroastrian gods and that the deluge myth predated that religion.

They then become the Zoroastric evil gods but continued to be worshiped as some of the gods in Hinduism.
I think this becouse of the hostile potrayal these religions contain of the other as well becouse of polary possoded idealogies and culture-historial wars.
Dynamism in the other polar end and order and monolothism in the other.
Azura= Ahura. Diva = Deva.

There are many themes in many religion about how humans are half gods and half men. It's a symbol of personal development. The merging between the devine and the worldy.
Between God, the bestial and the human.

Thats why there were so winged bulls and other winged or hybrid creatures in Mesopotamia. Also that why angels are part human, god and Winged.

Everybody or almost everybody has bit of Nephilim in them.
We are all half animal and half the God that we have within our heart.
Thats the meaning.

Rouge47 · 08-29-2005, 02:02 PM

Hello Satanist,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satanist

They then become the Zoroastric evil gods but continued to be worshiped as some of the gods in Hinduism.

Was Hinduism even around at that time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satanist

Everybody or almost everybody has bit of Nephilim in them.
We are all half animal and half the God that we have within our heart.
Thats the meaning.

I could agree with you on that, but not biologically. You see what is left of the Nephilim are just their spirits that are capable of possesing people and driving them mad, and insane, so to speak. Their spirits work like sin, that is my personal belief. I dont think that we are half animal though. I never really believed in that stuff, but I strongly respect your opinion and mean no offense.

God Bless,
Paul

Quahom1 · 08-29-2005, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satanist
Everybody or almost everybody has bit of Nephilim in them.
We are all half animal and half the God that we have within our heart.
Thats the meaning.

Perhaps, but most of us do not have six fingers on each hand nor six toes on each foot...

So the outward signs are not that apparent.

v/r

Q

OtownPR · 09-04-2005, 03:13 AM

Hi all,

between the end of the 17th century and early 1900s archaeologist uncovered this ancient civilization which contained buildings, pyramids called zigurauts (sp), figurines and clay tablets which writing was found.

Sumer is a large area in southern Mesopotamia containing many cities one being the city of UR the birth place of Abram (later known as Abraham).

The Sumerian civilization is credited with over 100 of the things needed for a civilization: agriculture, math, laws, the wheel, religion, astronomy, astrology and writings among others but the Sumerians never took credit for these inventions they said all they know was given to them by the ANUNNAKI (those from heaven to Earth came). In their writing they describe these gods that not only walked among them but were very human like, they ate, they interacted with the Sumerian people, they multiplied by having sex with each other as well as with humans but they were also capable of amazing feats like flying "measuring the Earth" and able to resurrect.

The Sumerians depicted the Anunnaki sometimes with wings but they were never depicted in flight using these wings as if they were just decorative.

Allot of the stories from the Sumerian times are echoed in our holy books, one story is the story of the flood in the Mesopotamian version (Atra Hasis) the god ENLIL was upset with the humans and wanted them to parish in the flood, the god ENKI chose to tell Atra Hasis/Ziusudra/Noah about the flood and to build an ark to survive it. Ziusudra built the ark, survived the flood, opened the hatch and released birds to see if the water had receded enough to show land. After the waters receded and Ziusudra left the ark he cooked a sacrifice and the gods "smelled" the meat and descended ENLIL decided to promise mankind to never try to drown them again.

There are other stories that parallel stories in the bible like the tower of Babel characters in these stories that parallel people in the bible like Moses, Enoch, Cain, Able and most interesting are the Nefilim and Adam & Eve.

The Sumerians had a creation story called the Enuma Elish or the 7 Tablets of Creation where the gods were fussing with each other and climaxed to a great battle. Now the Sumerian were amazing astronomers and mathematicians they were the first to invent the wheel (360 degrees) which is depicted in their art drawings, they knew about all 9 of our planets plus a 10th planet that has a very long orbit a 3600 year orbit and they also with their math system sexegesimal (math that used 6 times 10) that made them able to math very small fractions into the billions and trillions and actually distanced the space between planets.

Hard to believe? their tablets are held in museums all around the world you can see one tablet that they have that maths out 50 years ahead the next lunar eclipse at Jason Martel's website www.ancientx.com, now how could an ancient civilization have figured out a future position of a round celestial body on a round celestial body in a system of round celestial bodies? They knew!

There's a cylinder seal from a museum in Germany from around 2500 bc that depicts what looks like a solar system with the Sun in the MIDDLE thousands of years before Capornacus (sp), VA/243: http://erikparker.com/images2/akkad2.gif

They named some of the celestial bodies with the names of their gods: Apsu (Sun) Mummu (Mercury) Lahamu (Venus) Kingu (The Moon) Lahmu (Mars) Kishar (Jupiter) Anshar (Saturn) Anu (Uranus) Ea (Neptune) Gaga (Pluto) and this extra body called Marduk in Babylonian times in Sumerian NIBIRU (celestial body of the crossing). In the story Apsu and Tiamat created the other gods, the other gods robbed Apsu of his creative powers and Tiamat was looking for revenge with nobody willing to fight Tiamat the other gods recruited an outsider to come in and take up the fight.

The story seems to give a very detailed explanation of how our solar system was formed as well as how the Earth came to be, how it is today. NIBIRU was pulled into the solar system from the outside in to fight Tiamat, on the first pass cracked Tiamat in half killing her, on the second pass crashing into one half of Tiamat creating the Hammered out Bracelet the biblical Firmament/Heaven pushing the other half into another orbit which become the Earth.

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the Firmament Heaven. And the evening and morning were the second day. Gen 1:6-8

Sounds crazy but lets look at both halves of Tiamat, in the Old Testament this battle is echoed, biblical scholars now recognize and admit that the Hebrew word Tohem-Raba (great watery deep, watery monster, watery crocodile in some translations of the Old Testament) was translated through time from the word Tiamat (great watery celestial body or planet). Passages concerning the epic battle in the heavens: Isaiah 51:9-10 and Psalms 74:13.

Once NIBIRU smashed one half of Tiamat into pieces it became our asteroid belt (the Sumerian's hammered out bracelet) between Mars and Jupiter where scientists have said with the positions of the other planets should be one but there is the asteroid belt. So how could the other half become the Earth? After time a large spinning object in the vacuum of space will eventually become round again, it's explained in the Bible:

Then God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry [land] appear"; and it was so.

And God called the dry [land] Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. and God saw that [it was] good. Genesis 1:9-10

Science backs this up with Pangaea (when all the continents were in one place). Why would a giant sphere do this? If you took all the water off of Earth it would be far from a perfect sphere with the Pacific Ocean's basin being a very large gash into the Earth. The Sumerian explanation puts it into context.

The Enuma Elish on the 6th tablet with the creation of man (same as the sixth day in Genesis) and the 7th tablet as celebration (rest?).

The Anunnaki told the Sumerians that they were the 7th member of 12, counting inward from the outside of our solar system Earth would be the 7th, hence the lucky number seven and seven days of the week but 12 has kept in line ever since:

12 Ruling gods of the Anunnaki
12 Olympic gods
12 Tribes of Israel
12 Disciples of Jesus
12 Months of the Year
12 Hours in a day
12 Hours in a night
12 Members of a Jury
12 In a dozen
12 Inches in a foot

and I'm sure there are others. As their sexigesimal system of math has stayed with us (6 times 10) as in with our clocks 60 seconds for a minute and 60 minutes for an hour so naturally their "amazing" stories would also.

So I beg the question how out of nowhere does one of the first civilization know all this this fast and they give all the credit to their gods they call the ANUNNAKI that walked talked with them and could fly? Could they have been real?

Something happened in the days of Abraham! I personally see righteousness in most if not all religions at their root in the sense of seeking to live right and walking a righteous path and our holy books have helped religions to a certain extent but it seems people have overlooked the historic physical aspect of these documents with the Hebrew Torah being the oldest "modern" holy book and their Sumerian roots that are the oldest known to man.

There are talks about a type of extraordinary beings in the Old Testament: the Nefilim (Giants in some translations) who are related to the Anak who have came about from the mating of "Angels" and humans.

In the Sumerian stories there were these beings that came to Earth in search of precious metals so they started to mine and their main area to mine was in the Apsu, in southern Africa you'll find ancient extinct mines and ever wondered why Gold became man's first precious metal, that's what they mined for first and mostly. The workers of the mines were called the IGIGI they toiled in these mines for 40 sars (a sar being 3600 yrs a complete orbit of NIBIRU) 40 sars being 144,000 yrs till they mutinied against their bosses cause of their hardships.

This uprising caused the ANUNNAKI to come up with a way to continue to mine for the metals, ENKI proposed creating a worker but the other 'naki didn't like the idea of creating a new being to do the mining. Enki then stated that this being already exists all they would have to do is "bind" to it the "image" of the gods and create a LULU (mixed worker).

Gen 1-26 And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness...
The plurality is right there.

But to get a good foothold on what the Old Testament is truly saying you have to go back to the oldest version to start with then back to material that influenced it. The oldest version of the Bible of course is the Hebrew Torah, there are allot of words that have not been translated as it should have been. One example is Nefilim being translated as Giants when in fact Nefilim in Hebrew means "those from heaven to earth fell" i.e. "The Fallen Ones".

But there are others that are partly right like "Elohim" which in Hebrew is "Gods" plural ("Eloah & El" being it's Hebrew singular form"), but in the English translations it is translated as "God". Biblical scholars have said although it's true that the Hebrew word Elohim is plural there are places where it is read to be singular, which anyone can tell by reading a sentence to figure out if a noun should be plural or singular. But it should be understood that the Hebrew scholars not only realize that the word Elohim from it's root is a plural word but that they also see that there are places in the Bible that should be read as plural.

Then Gen 6:4 could be read as such: And the Gods said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness.....

AGAIN on SUMERIAN TABLETS ENKI created these beings with the help of Ninmah a female 'naki, ancient Sumerian poems hint at what could be interpreted as genetic trial and error:
<http://www.sleepingiantpro.com/Sumerian%20creation%20poem.htm>

Finally a male baby was born they called it the Adamu (from the red soiled earth) but their was a physical difference between this baby and the 'naki, it's male hood had a foreskin so they decided to cut the extra skin and with the drop of blood they squeezed out the creation was complete ending up as a ceremony of future times, circumcision.

It is said that ENLIL the head of the Anunnaki on Earth was upset with the creation of these workers but then once more workers were created to help work the mines Enlil wanted his own workers to toil in the Garden of EDIN, no lie in Sumerian tablets there is a garden called EDIN "abode of the righteous ones".

Before Enlil decided he wanted some workers Enki was struggling with creating more workers because as with the mule which is a hybrid itself the Adamu wasn't able to procreate by itself so Enki is said to have given Adamu "knowledge" so to be able to multiply and create more Adapas (basically from the red soiled earth upgrade).

In the bible "knowledge" was used to denote procreation:

Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain......
Gen 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived and bare Enoch........

Enlil took workers to EDIN and found that these LULUs were able to procreate so he kicked them out. Which is why in Genesis there seems to be more than one entity involved in the kicking out of Adam and Eve:

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of US, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever: Gen 3:22

Time goes on and some of the male Anunnaki started to procreate with human women (Nefilim) and babies started to pop up everwhere which angers ENLIL which leads to The Great Flood.

In the physical sense the Sumerian stories are not that far from the stories of our modern holy books but the main thing is if these ancient books pull from their Sumerian elder texts then it looks like it's talking about multiple flesh and blood deities.

In Sumerian drawings they have found the earliest depictions of the Zodiac signs, the Zodiac is mostley associated with astrology today within our 12 month year and are depicted as signs in the sky as the constilations.

The Zodiac constilations are also a natural clock for when the Earth's axis completes a full circle (Procession), it takes around 26000 years to complete one cycle. The rising of the Sun into each constilations indicate what great age they were in (we are currently coming to the end of the Great Age of Pisces), it takes an average of 2160 years to go through each sign completing just 1% every 72 years

The Sumerian, Akkadian, Assarian, Babylonian gods the ANUNNAKI looks like they used this natural clock (Procession) as when rulership changed hands,
the Babylonian Marduk (the Egyptian Ra and one of Enki's sons) felt his time to riegn had come which was at the beggining of the great age of Aries.

Marduk/Ra who was identified with the planet Mars, and thus the astrological sign of Aries, had assumed he would be in charge during the Age of Aries but was denied by the other Anunnaki. Marduk/Ra started to take over a spaceport in the Sinai Penninsula, a character closely resembling Abraham was as it sounds like in ancient text a military head to defend the spaceport from the hands of Marduk/Ra.

When it looked like Marduk's army was close to controling the spaceport PER ANCIENT TEXT heads of the Anunnaki decided to use "the forbiden weapons" to destroy it (Sodam & Gommorah). Then back in Sumer there are tablets talking about an "Evil Wind" that covered the sky choked and killed all inhabitants and their livestocks making the area barren (Nuclear Fallout?).

There is an area in the Sinai Penn that's covered with burnt pebbles that geologist have said could have only come from a volcanic eruption but when reminded that the Sinai have no volcanoes they shrug their shoulders, scientists also recorded readings of trace elements of U-235 only found involving a Nuclear type explosion.

Babylon which was Marduk/Ra's city which was just north of Sumer was spared and was looked at by the Anunnaki as an omen of Marduk/Ra's time to rule. Cairo was in the ancient language the name for Mars.

Continue on next post.

OtownPR · 09-04-2005, 03:14 AM

Babylon is where the ancient Hebrews were held captive leaving around the end of the age of Aries when it looks like the Anunnaki left Earth, around the same time the Torah (Old Testament) was first written down and amazing stories of ancient battles with Nefilim; Goliath being the most famous for his battle with David, starting the Davidic dynasty and the three major religions of the modern day (Goliath and other "Giants" possibly left behind 'naki?).

ANUNNAKI "Those from Heaven to Earth came" NEFILIM "Those from Heaven to Earth fell" or "The Fallen Ones"

Sorry for the long post.

What do you guys think?

Bless.

I, Brian · 09-04-2005, 12:29 PM

The Sumerians certainly are credited with a proper place in the history of human development, and although there are interesting postulations within the Niburu hypothesis - the actual hypothesis very much seems to be intellectual junk that has no supporting record, and instead appears to be a haphazard collection of ideas formed without any real regard for scientific justification - yet dresses itself up as scientific fact.

Here's a somwhat critical link, but which has further references:
http://skepdic.com/sitchin.html

Please note that I would be grateful if we could keep this thread focussed on theological discussion of the Nephilim, rather than coverage of sensationalist tracts.

OtownPR · 09-04-2005, 05:37 PM

My apologies, it was just hard to not only equate the Nephilim with the Anunnaki or that the origin of all major religions of today are rooted from a possible Physical ancient intervention of extraterrestrials if not just the possibility of "Aliens" by itself without pulling all that I see as evidence together.

It's very understandable for people to point right to Sitchin for his Cueniform script interpretations and Sitchin in general because Sitchin was the person to really give the Ancient Astronaut possibility into a theory.

Ofcourse nobody is gonna be 100% right 100% of the time but I do see truth in the fact that if one scholar translates a sentence of an ancient tablet of an ancient language that scholar probably will not be that different from other scholars' transtations but as time goes by and the rest of that tablet is translated and an understanding of the topic of it is clearly understood that first translated sentence will probably be refined to make sense with the rest of the tablet.

Add to that stepping further back to how the evolution of human civilization as a whole has evolved then that tablet becomes even more understood and it would depend on how far back does that interpreter steps back and that could differentiate the translations greatly from just a local flood to a hemispheric flood when just the existence of flood stories from around the world are taken into consideration.

The Nefilim looks to have had an important role before and after the flood from mating with humans to being defeated in battle giving rise to the Davidic dynasty, I've enjoyed reading the posts so far and look forward to reading future posts from members.

Bless.

Nogodnomasters · 09-04-2005, 08:08 PM

I read the 12th Planet as a child and that is where that stuff remains. Just because the ancients thought the planets were gods doesn't mean they were aliens.