The Number of Christ

Bruce Michael · 06-26-2007, 12:23 AM

Dear Friends,
We all know the number of the Beast is 666, but does our Lord have a number?
Well it turns out He does, and this was well known to the early Christians and Church Fathers- Clement of Alexandria for one.

The number was prophesied in the Sibylline Oracles.

Quote:

"When the virgin shall give birth to the-word of God the Most High, she shall give to the-word a name, and from the east a star will shine in the midst of day gleaming down from heaven above proclaiming to mortal men a great sign. Yes, then shall the son of the great God come to men, clothed in flesh like mortals on earth. Four vowels he has and twofold the consonants in him ... and now I will declare to you the whole number ... eight monads, and to these as many decads, and eight hundreds his name will show. "

-The Sibylline Oracles

I was able to find some good sites on this subject:

The Gospels seen as Sacred Geometry Plays > Jesus 8880

The Gospels seen as Sacred Geometry Plays > Jesus 8880

Alphabetics on 888 (Jesus) -- and 888 on Alphabetics

Jesus (888) = Christ (1480): Necessary and Sufficient

-Br.Bruce

Penguin · 06-26-2007, 12:13 PM

Since people communicate with the Lord and identify with him in so many different ways of recognition it would be hard to pin on him a "one and only number"? I feel it would be impossible to give him a number in this case. My thoughts

Bruce Michael · 06-27-2007, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penguin

Since people communicate with the Lord and identify with him in so many different ways of recognition it would be hard to pin on him a "one and only number"? I feel it would be impossible to give him a number in this case. My thoughts

Greetings Penguin,
I should've said "the number of Jesus".

I'm just giving the historical account here. If you look into it further you'll see that this was widely known back then.

As to a "one and only number" why then a "one and only name". There are many Names of course.

-Br.Bruce

JosephM · 06-27-2007, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

Dear Friends,
We all know the number of the Beast is 666, but does our Lord have a number?
Well it turns out He does, and this was well known to the early Christians and Church Fathers- Clement of Alexandria for one.

The number was prophesied in the Sibylline Oracles.

-The Sibylline Oracles

I was able to find some good sites on this subject:

The Gospels seen as Sacred Geometry Plays > Jesus 8880

The Gospels seen as Sacred Geometry Plays > Jesus 8880

Alphabetics on 888 (Jesus) -- and 888 on Alphabetics

Jesus (888) = Christ (1480): Necessary and Sufficient

-Br.Bruce

With all due respect,

Me thinks this is of no useful function whatsoever as relates to God and our journey. It is a mere detour on one's transformation to the image of Christ. But then again, it is only my view and if it interests you, enjoy.

Love and Peace,
JM

China Cat Sunflower · 06-27-2007, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosephM

With all due respect,

Me thinks this is of no useful function whatsoever as relates to God and our journey. It is a mere detour on one's transformation to the image of Christ. But then again, it is only my view and if it interests you, enjoy.

Love and Peace,
JM

Somewhere back on an old thread of Juan's I posted a quote from St. Clement regarding the nature of Christ as the Logos and its relation to music- He being the New Song and etc. This relates directly to Jesus being the Ogdoad of Eights, or 888, which is, among other things, significant in the mathematics of Greek musical structure. Clement was keenly aware of the numerological significance of 888 and its symbolic metaphysical connection with Jesus.

I guess what one finds useful in one's path is a matter of personal revelation. For myself I find this information very interesting and useful.

Chris

flowperson · 06-27-2007, 04:08 PM

Hi...The number "888" would symbolically represent (to me) the notion of
"three octaves".

flow....

InLove · 06-27-2007, 04:16 PM

I am so interested in this stuff when it relates to music. But I have such a hard time understanding it. While music has always been a help to me in areas such as math, I still struggle with this. I don't think much about numbers when I play music. But I think it is fascinating to read the kind of comments that are here. Chris, I especially enjoy thinking about yours. The thought I can immediately relate to is the one flow made above about 3 octaves.

InPeace,
InLove

flowperson · 06-27-2007, 05:27 PM

Hi...Think of it all in terms of three songs within one embodiment, or a "trinity" perhaps.

flow....

InLove · 06-27-2007, 05:45 PM

I'll try that, flow. And I'll keep reading....

Hehe.

Bruce Michael · 06-28-2007, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Somewhere back on an old thread of Juan's I posted a quote from St. Clement regarding the nature of Christ as the Logos and its relation to music- He being the New Song and etc. This relates directly to Jesus being the Ogdoad of Eights, or 888, which is, among other things, significant in the mathematics of Greek musical structure. Clement was keenly aware of the numerological significance of 888 and its symbolic metaphysical connection with Jesus.

I guess what one finds useful in one's path is a matter of personal revelation. For myself I find this information very interesting and useful.

Chris

Thank you for posting that about Clement, Chris. I knew he had said something about it. And there are others too....

Greetings,
Bruce

China Cat Sunflower · 06-29-2007, 02:21 AM

.888 is the ratio of the perfect fourth to the perfect fifth. It's 2/3 divided by 3/4. The reason that's important is because it tells us what the interval, or "bandwidth" of the tritone is. The tritone is the whole note between the perfect fourth and perfect fifth which is the balancing point of the octave. That critical fact is what gives the octave the essential proportion, or logos that governs its harmonic structure. Moving down the interval of a perfect fifth brings one to the same note as moving up a perfect fourth, while moving down the interval of a perfect fourth brings one to the perfect fifth. This happens because of the perfection of ratio between the fourth, fifth, and tonic tones.

Chris

China Cat Sunflower · 06-29-2007, 02:32 AM

Hi Bruce!

I don't recall specifically which tractate the appropriate quote from Clement is from, but if you google "Clement of Alexandria- Exhortation to the Heathen" you'll find it.

Chris

China Cat Sunflower · 06-29-2007, 03:33 AM

It's also interesting that .666 (2/3) is the ratio of the perfect fourth.

When thinking about the mathematical properties of the octave what we're really considering is the practical application of the power of 2. Divide the string in half and you double the frequency while preserving harmonic unity. Say we start with a note at 64 hertz. The next octave is both 64 x 2 and 64 + 64. Both equal 128. The next octave is twice 128 = 256. From there the frequency keeps doubling and the classic J curve of exponential acceleration appears. But in between the octaves after the first doubling there is a linear arithmetic function as well because even though the frequencies are increasing exponentially they still have to add up to a whole bunch of 64's. So in between 128 and 256 hertz, there is 192, and in between 256 and 512 there are 320, 384, and 448.

Now, why the heck is that important? Because it explains why the perfect fourth and fifth tones in the scale progression resonate most powerfully when combined with the tonic note. It's because those in-between frequencies most often fall in the position of the fourth or fifth, and to a lesser degree on the third and natural seventh. And that, my bleary eyed imaginary friend, is why certain chord progressions like 1-4-5 (C,G,F) and it's permutations are so absolutely universal in popular music.

Chris

wil · 06-29-2007, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Now, why the heck is that important? Because it explains why the perfect fourth and fifth tones in the scale progression resonate most powerfully when combined with the tonic note. ...and it's permutations are so absolutely universal in popular music.

Namaste Chris...great stuff.

Now here wil goes again...
a. discussing things he knows nothing about and
b. creating analogies where there may be none.

The math and Pythagarus and music intrigues the heck out of me, but I have no musical skills. When I was looking at this years ago thou I recall a number of different scales and systems of notes...and some informaton that what is so lovely, enjoyable to our western ear isn't always so all around the world....that their are scales that asians primarily use that differ and scales that indigenous peoples use that differ.. and that while some of us may listen to the music of India or China or Tibet or....and enjoy snippets, we really couldn't sit and have it play all day as it is like fingernails on the chalkboard to us after a while...

Which if true totally intrigues me in regards to the 888 and 666 as if our societal nature is to gravitate to these opposites (in our system) I'm wondeirng what combinations the other societies gravitate to and if there is also corresponding links to their belief systems....music to religion...

Bruce Michael · 06-30-2007, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

It's also interesting that .666 (2/3) is the ratio of the perfect fourth.

When thinking about the mathematical properties of the octave what we're really considering is the practical application of the power of 2. Divide the string in half and you double the frequency while preserving harmonic unity. Say we start with a note at 64 hertz. The next octave is both 64 x 2 and 64 + 64. Both equal 128. The next octave is twice 128 = 256. From there the frequency keeps doubling and the classic J curve of exponential acceleration appears. But in between the octaves after the first doubling there is a linear arithmetic function as well because even though the frequencies are increasing exponentially they still have to add up to a whole bunch of 64's. So in between 128 and 256 hertz, there is 192, and in between 256 and 512 there are 320, 384, and 448.

Now, why the heck is that important? Because it explains why the perfect fourth and fifth tones in the scale progression resonate most powerfully when combined with the tonic note. It's because those in-between frequencies most often fall in the position of the fourth or fifth, and to a lesser degree on the third and natural seventh. And that, my bleary eyed imaginary friend, is why certain chord progressions like 1-4-5 (C,G,F) and it's permutations are so absolutely universal in popular music.

Chris

Hi Chris,
Your musical knowledge is impressive.
I have heard in the past that there is a Devil's chord- and it certainly sounds devilish. Do you know what it is?

-Br.Bruce