The Premortal Life

Amulek · 06-04-2005, 09:04 PM

What are most Christian views about a life before we were born on Earth? I've never quite understood this. Do they believe we did not exist before we born, or that we lived as spirit beings before coming to this Earth?

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. - Jeremiah 1:5

18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. - Luke 10:18 (speaking of Lucifer's fall before the creation of the world)

Faithfulservant · 06-04-2005, 10:00 PM

Angels are not the same as humans..they were created before us.

God is omniscent and omnipresent and omnipotent and knows all things.. He is outside of time so He is not held to what we consider past present and future so He knew all things before they were. We believe that our life began as we were created within our Mothers womb... but because He knows us now He has known us forever.

Dor · 06-04-2005, 10:18 PM

I agree angels are not the same as humans.

I do not agree with the Morman doctrine that God and some goddess in heaven have children then send them here as people.

JonMarc · 06-04-2005, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Angels are not the same as humans..they were created before us.

God is omniscent and omnipresent and omnipotent and knows all things.. He is outside of time so He is not held to what we consider past present and future so He knew all things before they were. We believe that our life began as we were created within our Mothers womb... but because He knows us now He has known us forever.

agreed....

...just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,... - Ephesians 1:4-5 NKJV
we were known and we were loved and we were chosen.

this is not simply saying before we were made to be living beings, as in adam:

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils th breath of life; and man became a living being - Genesis 2:7 NKJV

but before the foundation of the world. thus there was no concept of Adam but that in God's own mind prior to his becoming a living being (birth.)

Amulek · 06-04-2005, 10:42 PM

So you believe "angels" were created before our spirits? And that the "one-third of the host of Heaven" that followed Lucifer were all angels, and that the other two-thirds were angels were as well?

Hrm. I find it hard to believe that we did not exist before our mortal birth. Does anyone have any Biblical evidence that they feel supports this?

Bandit · 06-04-2005, 11:36 PM

i believe angels are not the same as humans also & that MOST LIKELY, the spirit of man is created at conception. However, I feel there is an exception there with Jesus because of the preeminent factor. He did exist in the beginning with God & before the world (people) was but I do not see him as an angel or even as God there.
We may even see some other exceptions like with Elijah only from this side of Adam, not before.

Some believe that all the angels become people, then go back to being angels. I do not believe in immortal, then mortal, then back to immortal, not even with Jesus. But if others want to, that is up to them.
Yet sometimes I wonder, if God might bring certain ones back to carnality, for whatever purpose He may have...not as in incarnations or reincarnations but as in MADE IT AGAIN a new vessel or as in descended into the lower parts of the earth.

The scripture tells us the tabernacle of God is with MEN, not angels or other creations. While angels are also made for His glory, man obtains an even higher & better crowning in glory, through the covenant God made to us & the inheritance he offers us, through Jesus.

God knows all, so like the others say, he would know us before the womb & even prior to us being made in the womb, but that does not necessarily mean that we pre existed prior to the womb.

Some of these things cannot be proven but make for possibilites.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Genesis 2:7)

The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him. (Zechariah 12:1)

Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. (Isaiah 43:7)

path_of_one · 06-05-2005, 12:14 AM

I believe some of us, at least, had a premortal life. But I'm not a mainstream Christian, so I respect that most denominations and Christians will disagree with me, which is OK. I don't think premortal life is an issue that matters much to a lot of folks. If they were around before this life, what would it matter for this life? If people have memories of other lives, then they'll believe in a premortal life out of experience, and if they haven't, there's little they can gain by pondering on it. It just makes more sense to focus on here and now and where we're headed.

At the same time, I don't think of God at all the way that Mormons do, so I doubt my ideas about this premortal life are very similar to yours. They're probably more similar to Eastern and indigenous ideas of reincarnation, and are based almost entirely on my own introspection and experience.

Dor · 06-06-2005, 08:27 PM

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. - Jeremiah 1:5
Jeremiah was foreknown by God and set apart as His messenger to the nations before his birth. Doesnt say anything about every person on the planet.

18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. - Luke 10:18 (speaking of Lucifer's fall before the creation of the world)
that is a quote from Jesus...of course he saw that he has been around forever he was there before anything was created

Couple verses show that Jesus was around before it all.
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

And a couple that shows man as a whole was not
Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Sorry I just find it hard to believe that God has a wife and has little spirit babies they send to Earth and that Jesus and Satan are brothers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amulek

So you believe "angels" were created before our spirits? And that the "one-third of the host of Heaven" that followed Lucifer were all angels, and that the other two-thirds were angels were as well?

The fact of their creation is brought out in Psalm 148. There the psalmist calls upon all in the celestial heavens, including the angels, to praise God. The reason given is, “For He commanded and they were created” (Ps. 148:1-5).

The time of their creation is never stated, however, we know they were created before the creation of the world. From the book of Job we are told that they were present when the earth was created (Job 38:4-7) so their creation was prior to the creation of the earth as described in Genesis one.

The agent of their creation is specifically stated to be Christ as the One who created all things (cf. John 1:1-3 with Col. 1:16).

The nature of their creation is as a host or a company, simultaneously. Unlike human beings and the animal kingdom created in pairs and who procreate, angels were created simultaneously as a company, a countless host of myriads (Col. 1:16; Neh 9:6). This is suggested by the fact they are not subject to death and they do not or were not to propagate. They are nevertheless an innumerable host created before the creation of the earth (cf. Job. 38:7; Neh. 9:6; Ps 148:2, 5; Heb 12:22; Dan 7:10; Matt 26:53; Rev. 5:11; with Matt. 22:28-30; Luke 20:20-36).

While all the angels were originally created holy and without sin, there was a rebellion by Satan, who, being lifted up by his own beauty, sought to exalt himself above God and rebelled. In his rebellion, he took with him one-third of the angels (Rev. 12:4).
John wrote, “And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. And the dragon and his angels waged war” (Rev. 12:7). In other words, there are good angels and there are evil angels.

So its very easy to me as a "bible believer" to know that the 1/3 that followed Satan were angels and the other 2/3 that stayed were angels too.

Quahom1 · 06-12-2005, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amulek

What are most Christian views about a life before we were born on Earth? I've never quite understood this. Do they believe we did not exist before we born, or that we lived as spirit beings before coming to this Earth?

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. - Jeremiah 1:5

18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. - Luke 10:18 (speaking of Lucifer's fall before the creation of the world)

As per your original question, there is a term describing the chamber of souls called "The Guff". Apparently according to writings, The Guff is where we wait until conception is about to take place, and we then enter the body of the new life on Earth at this conception. This could explain the Bible's statement of God knowing us before we were "stitched together in the womb". It could also be that the fact that God "thought of us each", brought us into existence...and then thought became physical reality.

I know that before I can build a boat, I must see the boat (complete) in my mind. It exists for me, but others can't see it, until I manifest it in the physical world. Then it exists for them as well. The difference in thought here is that I become satisfied with what I envisioned and created, and the observer becomes intrigued and/or pleased with what was created.

I think we are given strong clues as to how and when we come into being, and I think it is before our birth, and perhaps before our conception date.

For me personally, if God claims to have known me before I was physcially put together, then He will most assuredly know me after I am physically dissassembled.

The Spirit of God is eternal...the Spirit of Man is apparently immortal.

my three cent nickel's worth.

v/r

Q