The Problem of Evil (in a Deterministic Universe)

[Postmaster]

Let’s say there was no such thing as misfortune, we would then start rating our reality differently and thus you get misfortune again. Evil is what we consider to be misfortune. So my answer is evil is an illusion and we must constantly push to higher our misfortune threshold towards God.

[c0de]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

So my answer is evil is an illusion and we must constantly push to higher our misfortune threshold towards God.

I definitely agree with that.

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by c0de

That's funny, coming from someone who believes man can achieve
"inner objective morality"... a position based in a logical fallacy.

You are not Christian so I cannot expect you to understand Meister Eckhart but in this famous quote he describes the basis of inner morality:

"God...does not constrain the will. Rather, he sets it free, so that it may choose him, that is to say, freedom. The spirit of man may not will otherwise than what God wills, but that is no lack of freedom. It is true freedom itself."

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by c0de

The reason why I limited the discussion is because I do not want to argue with people about free will. Because I do not want
to convince anyone they dont have it, even though I do not believe
in it, and I think it is not compatible with an all-powerful and all-knowing God.

Free will is the logical possibility to balance Determinism...dismiss one half and the discussion is no longer logical. It is like placing a brick on one side of the balance and trying to call it fair and equal...it isn't.

G-d is what G-d is, and G-d will be what G-d is regardless of what we want to believe He is.

Originally Posted by c0de

Personally though, I think its an adorable concept

Like I said about ad hominems...

[c0de]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

It is like placing a brick on one side of the balance and trying to call it fair and equal...it isn't.

Bud I am not balancing anything here. This is not a
discussion about determinism "vs" free will.

Like I said about ad hominems...

Dude, this is not an "ad hominem" because I am not dismissing
free will, nor am I taking determinism for granted because I can't
argue for it. I started the thread for the sake of discussing
the Problem of Evil, (specifically) from a deterministic point of view.
There is a difference. If I was arguing for determinism without
taking into consideration free will, then you could make that criticism.

If you want to create a determinism vs free will thread,
please feel free and I will jump on board if you wish.
Believe me, it is very easy to disprove free will if you
believe that God is all powerful and all knowing... but
I don't care for that debate at all, because.. well, I just
dont want to destroy people's belief in free will...
like I said... i think its adorable belief lol...

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by c0de

Bud I am not balancing anything here. This is not a
discussion about determinism "vs" free will.



Dude, this is not an "ad hominem" because I am not dismissing
free will, nor am I taking determinism for granted because I can't
argue for it. I started the thread for the sake of discussing
the Problem of Evil, (specifically) from a deterministic point of view.
There is a difference. If I was arguing for determinism without
taking into consideration free will, then you could make that criticism.

If you want to create a determinism vs free will thread,
please feel free and I will jump on board if you wish.
Believe me, it is very easy to disprove free will if you
believe that God is all powerful and all knowing... but
I don't care for that debate at all, because.. well, I just
dont want to destroy people's belief in free will...
like I said... i think its adorable

As you wish, but it is not logical. The ad hominems are glaring evidence of that fact.

[c0de]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

As you wish, but it is not logical. The ad hominems are glaring evidence of that fact.

*holds head in hands*

THERE IS NO AD HOMINEM HERE!!!!!!!!!!!


geeeeeeeeeez dude...

did you even read my post above???

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by c0de

*holds head in hands*

THERE IS NO AD HOMINEM HERE!!!!!!!!!!!


geeeeeeeeeez dude...

did you even read my post above???

Indeed, I did. Dude. Bud. It's just adorable.

Peace out.

[c0de]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Indeed, I did. Dude. Bud. It's just adorable.

Peace out.

lol


im so confused, yet so amused

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

You are not Christian so I cannot expect you to understand Meister Eckhart but in this famous quote he describes the basis of inner morality:

So you have to be Christian to understand Eckhart?

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by Paladin

So you have to be Christian to understand Eckhart?

No, I simply meant that a Christian would appreciate what Meister Eckhart has written. While anyone could, many wouldn't. Not many would want to accept that though free will is a potential for man, as we are, we deny it and its freedom. Try telling that to a non christian like Richard Dawkins and see how far you'll get.

[TheKhan]

my definition of evil is. in the widest definition possible has something to do with.

1. bringing misfortune to children.
2. messing with peoples abilities to put food on the table.

Anything other than that is therefore not evil, a luxury, and all in our minds, IMO.

Step over these rules and even nations will be gone. civilizations wiped out. This often happens when man is so man, full of himself that as a society these basic principles are ignored or lost in an ocean of logic. Thus causing destruction of societies.

Whether you call that an act of God is anyone`s choice. I frankly think its in our DNA.
Some people seem to know this, IMO. Making people so mad.. but their lineage will most likely not continue for very long.


TK

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

No, I simply meant that a Christian would appreciate what Meister Eckhart has written. While anyone could, many wouldn't. Not many would want to accept that though free will is a potential for man, as we are, we deny it and its freedom. Try telling that to a non christian like Richard Dawkins and see how far you'll get.

What about a Buddhist?

[greymare]

heres my opinion. i dont want an argument, its just my opinion.
God is good and all powerful,
however, he is like the parent watching over his kids, to the kid he is hovering in the background, picking us up when we fall. (and fall, we will, because thats how we learn). We are the brats, playing with matches, .... when we end up burning our fingers, God says "... Did you learn anything from that?".
As regards Evil, well, we have the potential for good and evil, as I have expressed on other threads, I dont know why God allows evil, perhaps he's trying to get us, as his children to learn from that too? We as humans have to potential to stop evil, and I dont agree that there has to be both good and evil. That to me is a copout.
Its an excuse for evil, ("oh well, there has to be some evil...") RUBBISH.
As for clarifying evil, defining it........... i cant and wont go into that, (im not that educated), but i will say this...... Look into your heart and you know the difference.
Simple.
In my humble opinion.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

Let’s say there was no such thing as misfortune, we would then start rating our reality differently and thus you get misfortune again. Evil is what we consider to be misfortune. So my answer is evil is an illusion and we must constantly push to higher our misfortune threshold towards God.

Well... That is just an opinion.... God can be seen as just an illusion, so could be said for "good" or anything else....... But there are many sides to each, for example we are speaking of Evil... You class that as a misfortune? I'll go by one of the standard definitions/belifes of evil......

Uhm... Hitler slayed many jews... To them that could be seen as a misfortune I suppose lulz.... To hitler was it a misfortune? Or was it righteous? Was it to him not a massacre How did he describe it again.....? mein kampf...