The Promised Messiah

[marmalade]

Originally Posted by bob x

"Docetists claimed that Christ was a mere phantasm who only seemed to live and suffer."
Yes, yes, but they did agree that people did see Jesus walking around (even if they disagreed about what that "Jesus" actually was). The notion that Jesus was just a story-figure is a peculiarly 20th-century invention.

It was a miscommunication. When I said that I didn't believe in a historical Christ, I wasn't saying that I actively disbelieved in any other kind of Christ. A spiritual Christ makes a lot of sense to me. A historical Christ can't be proved with historical evidence, but a spiritual Christ can be proved with spiritual experience.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by mal

I've had some trouble with this because he's not technically born in David's line - at least, not the way it's all layed out in Matthew. He's not technically Joseph's son. Not by blood, at least.

Can someone help me with this?

The genealogy of Luke and the genealogy of Matthew agree exactly with the line between Abraham and David. From David to Mary in Luke, or from David to Joseph in Matthew, the lineage changes. Only three times do the two different accounts mention the same names, Shealtiel, Zerubbabel, and possibly Matthat (Matthan in Matthew). This can be explained very easily. Mary and Joseph were
first cousins.

For a more complete explanation, go to
The Genealogy of Jesus Christ

I know Church of Christ can be kind of weird, but they had the info readily. It can be found elsewhere. They were just a quick google.

[Azure24]

Why, the most controversial prophecy (IMO) is 'The Sufferent Servant' - Isiah 53

52:13 Behold, my servant shall deal
prudently, he shall be exalted
and extolled, and be very high.
52:14As many were astonied at thee;
his visage was so marred
more than any man, and his form more
than the sons of men:
52:15So shall he sprinkle many nations;
the kings shall shut
their mouths at him: for that which had
not been told them shall they see;
and that which they had not heard
shall they consider.
1Who hath believed our report?
and to whom is the arm
of the LORD revealed?
²For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant
, and as a root out of a dry ground:
he hath no form nor comeliness;
and when we shall see him,
[there is] no beauty that we should desire him.
³He is despised and rejected of men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief:
and we hid as it were [our] faces from him;
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4Surely he hath borne our griefs,
and carried our sorrows:
yet we did esteem him stricken,
smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But he [was] wounded
for our transgressions, [he was]
bruised for our iniquities:
the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him;
and with his stripes we are healed.
6All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the LORD hath laid on him the
iniquity of us all.

7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth:
he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb,
so he openeth not his mouth.

8He was taken from prison and from judgment:
and who shall declare his generation?
for he was cut off out of the land of the living:
for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9And he made his grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death;
because he had done no violence,
neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him;
he hath put [him] to grief:
when thou shalt make his soul an
offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed,
he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the
LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11He shall see of the travail of his soul,
[and] shall be satisfied:
by his knowledge shall
my righteous servant justify many;
for he shall bear their iniquities.

12Therefore will I divide him [a portion]
with the great, and he
shall divide the spoil with the strong;
because he hath poured out his soul unto death:
and he was numbered with the transgressors;
and he bare the sin of many,
and made intercession for the
transgressors.

Jews of course believe this is Israel, while Chritians believe this 'Suffering Servant' is Jesus. Personally this is not the ideal tranlation (the KJV), but then are there any remain scriptures that are perfect in wording...

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Azure!

Thank you for the reminder!

Originally Posted by Azure24

Why, the most controversial prophecy (IMO) is 'The Sufferent Servant' - Isaiah 53...

Jews of course believe this is Israel, while Chritians believe this 'Suffering Servant' is Jesus. Personally this is not the ideal tranlation (the KJV), but then are there any remain scriptures that are perfect in wording...

Without knowing the ancient Hebrew or Greek it is a bit difficult for the lay student, we end up having to take some amount on faith.

One translation that may be of interest to you is the Interlinear. It includes the Hebrew and Greek, and translates to English verbatim, which can make it a bit clumsy to read. But it generally translates pretty directly, about as "perfect in wording" as one could hope for.

I found this Interlinear translation of Isaiah 52:

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...Tpdf/isa52.pdf