the prophet elijah

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by star light

please could some one answear this question for me.
in the book of malachi chapter 4 verse 5 "see i will send you the prophet elijah
before that great and dreadfull day of the lord comes he will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of thire children to thire fathers"
this means before the messiah comes elijah will return so in the new testiment who is elijah?
a friend of mine said it was john the baptist, so i looked in the book of john and in chapter 1 verse 21 it sais " they asked him, then who are you?are you elijah? he said i am not " are you the prophet he answered no.
could someone tell me who elijah was?

John the Baptist emphatically stated NO, he was not the prophet Elijah. Which means that Elijah has not yet returned...

Oooooh boy, are we in for a surprise...

Elijah is yet to return. Yet another prophecy to be fulfilled. Elijah's return had nothing to do with the coming of Christ, but everything to do with the second coming.

If so, how will we recognize him? I think that would be an appropriate question.

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[taijasi]

My apologies ... I think I have used poor judgement. Indeed, this is the Christian forum, and it seems my posts are out of line. I stand corrected.

andrew

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by taijasi

My apologies ... I think I have used poor judgement. Indeed, this is the Christian forum, and it seems my posts are out of line. I stand corrected.

andrew

Why? Because John said no? He is not Elijah, and you think he is? Hmmm. I think I'd be a bit off kilter as well.


Or maybe it is because some Christians say no, to your views...That is called freedom my friend. You ought to get use to it. It has been around for about 200 plus years.

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[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

John the Baptist emphatically stated NO, he was not the prophet Elijah. Which means that Elijah has not yet returned...

Oooooh boy, are we in for a surprise...

Elijah is yet to return. Yet another prophecy to be fulfilled. Elijah's return had nothing to do with the coming of Christ, but everything to do with the second coming.

If so, how will we recognize him? I think that would be an appropriate question.

v/r

Q

In my faith, ABdu'l Baha explains this very question:

"We will begin to elucidate it from the Gospel, for there it is plainly said that when John, the son of Zacharias, appeared and gave to men the glad tidings of the Kingdom of God, they asked him, "Who art thou? Art thou the promised Messiah?" He replied, "I am not the Messiah." Then they asked him, "Art thou Elijah?" He said, "I am not."[2] These words prove and show that John, the son of Zacharias, was not the promised Elias. But on the day of the transfiguration on Mount Tabor Christ said plainly that John, the son of Zacharias, was the promised Elias.
[1 Cf. p. 110, n. 2.]
[2 Cf. John 1:19-21.]
In chapter 9, verses 11-13, of the Gospel of Mark, it is said: "And they asked Him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come? And He answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that He must suffer many things, and be set at nought. But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him."
In chapter 17, verse 13, of Matthew, it is said: "Then 133 the disciples understood that He spake unto them of John the Baptist."
They asked John the Baptist, "Are you Elias?" He answered, "No, I am not," although it is said in the Gospel that John was the promised Elias, and Christ also said so clearly.[1] Then if John was Elias, why did he say, "I am not"? And if he was not Elias, why did Christ say that he was?
[1 Cf. John 1:21.]
The explanation is this: not the personality, but the reality of the perfections, is meant -- that is to say, the same perfections that were in Elias existed in John the Baptist and were exactly realized in him. Therefore, John the Baptist was the promised Elias. In this case not the essence,[1] but the qualities, are regarded. For example, there was a flower last year, and this year there is also a flower; I say the flower of last year has returned. Now, I do not mean that same flower in its exact individuality has come back; but as this flower has the same qualities as that of last year -- as it has the same perfume, delicacy, color and form -- I say the flower of last year has returned, and this flower is the former flower. When spring comes, we say last year's spring has come back because all that was found in last year's spring exists in this spring. That is why Christ said, "You will see all that happened in the days of the former Prophets."
[1 I.e., the individuality.]
(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 133)

[Faithfulservant]

Taijasi please dont think your beliefs are unwelcome here. We all bring something to the pot and as long as you arent here trying to preach to me your beliefs as law you wont be offending me. I think most of us are strong enough in our faiths and knowledgable enough to give you a grand discussion! So have at it

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

In my faith, ABdu'l Baha explains this very question:

For example, there was a flower last year, and this year there is also a flower; I say the flower of last year has returned. Now, I do not mean that same flower in its exact individuality has come back; but as this flower has the same qualities as that of last year -- as it has the same perfume, delicacy, color and form -- I say the flower of last year has returned, and this flower is the former flower. When spring comes, we say last year's spring has come back because all that was found in last year's spring exists in this spring. That is why Christ said, "You will see all that happened in the days of the former Prophets."
[1 I.e., the individuality.]
(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 133)

yah but it is not the same thing because most of these religions who believe in strict reincarnation think that is all we ever do is just keep coming back over & over again, like paper being recycled.
i personally do not think i am reincarnated & i dont think i will be coming back to earth through the womb of woman when i die.
once around will be enough thank you.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,


I do think its a nice idea because it seems easy but the path IS narrow.


FS

hey Faithful, are you saying you dont want to come back to earth & do it all over again?
i mean just think, you could sit at these computers for hours all over again.
i dont think i am coming back after i die either.

i had one last brainstorm from the other thread. we could all sit at a big table. put the tarot card readers on one side & the bible readers on the other. every 50 verses equals one card.
we read the passage, they read their card. we start praying & keep reading.
you know, like take turns.
do you think they would be up to it?

i guess some people just dont understand that Christians really really really REALLY REALLY believe in the bible & Jesus Christ.

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Bandit

hey Faithful, are you saying you dont want to come back to earth & do it all over again?
i mean just think, you could sit at these computers for hours all over again.
i dont think i am coming back after i die either.

i had one last brainstorm from the other thread. we could all sit at a big table. put the tarot card readers on one side & the bible readers on the other. every 50 verses equals one card.
we read the passage, they read their card. we start praying & keep reading.
you know, like take turns.
do you think they would be up to it?

i guess some people just dont understand that Christians really really really REALLY REALLY believe in the bible & Jesus Christ.

lol Bandit no... once is enough for me thanks. I try to limit my torment to small doses.. living life over and over again would be akin to hell. I just live for the day that this life is over and I can be where my soul yearns to be. That may seem strange to ppl that embrace this life or world.. but to me its freakin torture.

Interesting idea btw.. I dont think it would be fair tbh... a bit one-sided maybe? :P

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

lol Bandit no... once is enough for me thanks. I try to limit my torment to small doses.. living life over and over again would be akin to hell. I just live for the day that this life is over and I can be where my soul yearns to be. That may seem strange to ppl that embrace this life or world.. but to me its freakin torture.

Interesting idea btw.. I dont think it would be fair tbh... a bit one-sided maybe? :P

freakin torture Amen.

you are right. it may not be fair. but hey i guess we will have to see which thumps harder on its own... the bible or the cards.
i guess what i would be looking to see is what the bible reads about the cards & what the cards read about the bible. i know it is stupid but might make for good saturday night live.

i am tossing my poker chips on the bible.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Interesting as your view is, ... reincarnation ... not biblically supported. We are appointed one time to die not hundreds as we go through many lives.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
It also takes away the message of Salvation.. what point would salvation be if all you had to do was die and do it all over again because you didnt accept the gift the first time.
I do think its a nice idea because it seems easy but the path IS narrow. ..Thank you for sharing your ideas Taijasi

Seems reincarnation was popular talk amongst those at the time of Jesus and of the early Christians...

Why would one ask if someone was Peter or Elijah, or even pose, who do they say I am?? Why would one ask Jesus if the child born afflicted was due to his sins or that of his father?

There was plenty of opportunity in both those instances and more to say that reincarnation did not exist. Instead they accepted the question as normal...perfectly logical that they would think I was reincarnated...or that the child had sins from past lives...

Do we truly think a loviing forgiving father (we are talking unconditional love, love your enemy love, love your neighbor as yourself love, forgive countless times forgiving..)that this father would expect us to have the capacity to earn passage to the next realm in only one trip on this one? And if we failed send us down the stairs?

To tie with another thread, could be those church fathers that put the books together specifically took books that spoke the least to reincarnation...as that was the consensus of the council....

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by wil

Seems reincarnation was popular talk amongst those at the time of Jesus and of the early Christians...

Why would one ask if someone was Peter or Elijah, or even pose, who do they say I am?? Why would one ask Jesus if the child born afflicted was due to his sins or that of his father?

There was plenty of opportunity in both those instances and more to say that reincarnation did not exist. Instead they accepted the question as normal...perfectly logical that they would think I was reincarnated...or that the child had sins from past lives...

Do we truly think a loviing forgiving father (we are talking unconditional love, love your enemy love, love your neighbor as yourself love, forgive countless times forgiving..)that this father would expect us to have the capacity to earn passage to the next realm in only one trip on this one? And if we failed send us down the stairs?

To tie with another thread, could be those church fathers that put the books together specifically took books that spoke the least to reincarnation...as that was the consensus of the council....

Perhaps because Elijah never died...

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Perhaps because Elijah never died...

Exactly...

2Kings 2:11 Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.


Same with Moses...


Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"


We also have Enoch...

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, "and was not found, because God had taken him"; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

The fun part is the amount of unanswered questions that were left with each person..

[wil]

But Jesus walked up and asked who the others say he is...

And the reply was Elijah, John, Jerimiah... So they thought he was Elijah walking on earth again, or another duel incarnation of John the Baptist, or Jeremiah?

Again since Jesus simply asked...who do you think I am.. leaving it entirely open for discussion..and not denying the possiblity of the others...even the answer you are the Christ doesn't take away the possiblity that he is reincarnated from someone else..

and there were some other questions...

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by Bandit

yah but it is not the same thing because most of these religions who believe in strict reincarnation think that is all we ever do is just keep coming back over & over again, like paper being recycled.
i personally do not think i am reincarnated & i dont think i will be coming back to earth through the womb of woman when i die.
once around will be enough thank you.

Satistically I can't believe in reincarnation. There are more people alive today than have lived and died already. Where is the room for returns when facing that mathematical truth?

yet the flower that blooms one year and dies, and can be seen to bloom again is a metaphor for the return of the same flower, even though they are different generations.This means they are separate entities and a metaphorical return is not a literal return.

I was at a party once when two folks of the Hubbard persuasion were wondering why they felt they had met before. After an hour long discussion of their past lives they decided that one of them had lived as Alexander the Great and the other was his horse Bucephalus.

I don't believe in the transmigration of souls either.

Which brings up another evidence against reincarnation; how come everybody was a king or great warrior, and no one is ever the return of the guy who mucked out the stables?

Regards,
Scott

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by wil

But Jesus walked up and asked who the others say he is...

And the reply was Elijah, John, Jerimiah... So they thought he was Elijah walking on earth again, or another duel incarnation of John the Baptist, or Jeremiah?

Again since Jesus simply asked...who do you think I am.. leaving it entirely open for discussion..and not denying the possiblity of the others...even the answer you are the Christ doesn't take away the possiblity that he is reincarnated from someone else..

and there were some other questions...

Jesus never left anything open for discussion. You refuse to read the rest of the story. Not wise.

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