The Psychology of "Finding God"

[Netti-Netti]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

We are scientists? get a grip.

Hello friend Tao,

I thought you had a scientific basis for your atheism. Now you're telling us that you and no one else has any use for science because because they're not scientists?!!@

The temperature readings you hear on the radio were reported by scientists (metereologists). Based on your logic, we have no use for such scientific findings because we are not scientists and don't understand them in the slightest! We don't know hot from cold, yes?

[Eclectic Mystic]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

My curiousity is piqued...what could a self-avowed atheist possibly want with finding G-d? Are you really ready to hear...that is, absorb...the answers?

The cynic in me doubts it. I'll wait for the other shoe to drop.

Tao,

Perhaps you will be "ready to hear" God as soon as middlemen give up on interrupting you in this fashion.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

Now you're telling us that you and no one else has any use for science because because they're not scientists?!

Having to go to such lowly attempts to put words in my mouth really reeks of desperation. Unless you have something constructive to say why dont you go compare notes with your clones.


tao

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I have not found God, but I found the devil. He's in the details.

Chris

Yes we are always distracted by the details. I've found the devil within the details of the delightful female form enhanced by a well fitting bikini. Andre Weil, Simone's brother, found him in math:

"God exists since mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exists since we cannot prove it."
Quoted in H Eves Mathematical Circles Adieu (Boston 1977).

Can't see the forest for the trees.

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I have to endure so often here the charge that my questioning of what religion IS seems often like an attack on the individual mental balance of those I 'argue' with.

I hope this thread can for once clarify that question and prove that this accusation can only be upheld by assuming I do not ask a valid question. I believe I do, however uncomfortable it is for the 'believer'.


Finding God is highly personal. Those that have been inculcated from birth have not 'found' it till they have first rejected it. Often they go on to rediscover in a new denomination or religion. The reasons for rejection and rediscovery are highly personal but often intimately linked. But what exactly creates the right conditions to find God independent of these individual circumstances?

Before I give my opinion I offer the floor to any who care to give their opinion.



tao

The answer is in the following but few will come to admit it:

"Do You wish to know God? Learn first to know yourself"
-ABBA EVAGRIUS, FOURTH CENTURY

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

The answer is in the following but few will come to admit it:

So far my favourite answer. I hope there are more yet. I hope that maybe I may even be pre-empted.That my thoughts are superfluous and I can at last learn from it... I really do not live to talk but to learn. I thank God, and the tooth fairy, that I was grown free of the root of tyrany on my selfs integrity. I know far from all are so fortunate.


Tao


PS: I am away for 10 days so you all have plenty of time!

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

The answer is in the following but few will come to admit it:

Your quote was good.

I've taken to a bit more contemporary poet:

I'm looking at the man in the mirror, I'm asking him to change his ways, no message could have been any clearer;

if you want to make the world a better place you've got to look at yourself and make the change...

[RubySera_Martin]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

I think that there is evolutionary purpose in humanity's overall tendency toward animism of some sort-- whether that attributes person-hood to spirits in nature, or to multiple gods, or to one God, or whatever. The evidence from anthropological studies in religion are that religion generally serves important social functions and the basic animistic mindset is grounded in the way human brains work. In a small percentage of the population, there seems to be an innate tendency for a "shamanic" type of cognition, what could be compared to the INFP or INFJ personality types of Myers-Briggs- the types that in traditional societies fulfilled roles of shamans and mystics, and in modern society have no official role but most commonly become teachers and psychologists/counselors (interesting enough).

Excellent post! I read all of it. I think we've talked before but not in a long time. I see a number of familiar names. I almost responded to wil's post then saw others I wanted to read first. Now I'm here. Two years ago when I was here last, was a last desperate search to "hold onto god." When I read posts like your's and wil's I feel very comfortable. However, in reality I conclude that "god" begins and ends in the human psyche. What do you think of studies such as are being done by Michael Persinger of Laurentian University in Sudbury, Ontario, Canada?

[China Cat Sunflower]

Hi Ruby! It's nice to see you around again.

Chris

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Hi Ruby! It's nice to see you around again.

Chris

Ditto. Nice to see you posting Ruby.

[China Cat Sunflower]

From Dr. Persinger's bio:

Within the commercial setting, we have pursued the possibility that control of experience, from depression to memory, may be simulated by transcerebral application of complex magnetic field patterns associated with activity of either endogenous or exogenous ligands at the synapses.

Can someone explain this to me? What are endogenous and exogenous ligands?

Chris

[RubySera_Martin]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Ditto. Nice to see you posting Ruby.

Thanks for the welcome.

[AndrewX]

Hi, Ruby. I disagree that `G-d' is (only) a human construct, though I do so admire the wisdom and good humor of Voltaire:

"Si Dieu n'existait pas, il faudrait l'inventer.
(If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.)"
-- [Voltaire, "Epîtres, XCVI"]

"If God made us in His image we have certainly returned the compliment."

Anyway, good to see you again.

Namaskar,

Andrew/Taijasi

[RubySera_Martin]

Thanks for all your welcomes, folks. I replied to one post that contained a quote from another so I thought I was replying to two people. I forgot that this forum does not include several levels of quotes.

Chris, re your question on the quote from Dr. Persinger's bio. I personally don't know enough science to explain it. I don't know what half the words in the quote mean.

I think that I, as a human being, am more than the sum of my parts. Even scientists admit that some facts of life continue to elude them. Have you ever seen the Oxford biologist Richard Dawkins? I guess he knows the scientific parts of the systems that make up the human body--and many other parts of the universe--yet it does not keep him from being filled with awe as he takes in the beauties of nature. That feeling of awe for something so large and so beautiful seems to be part of the human experience no matter how we interpret it. Some of us think it is God outside of our own selves, some of us think we have scientific evidence that it is part of the human body that allows us to experience the feeling, some of us have another interpretation. I think all of us experience it as a very positive and affirming phenomenon.

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by RubySera_Martin

I think that I, as a human being, am more than the sum of my parts.

Hello again, Ruby! We had talked quite a bit but not in some time... last time we spoke you were entering a graduate program (if I remember correctly) and I was still in mine... now finished!

I agree that there is a quality of emergence in life. I think this occurs at all levels, both those that we can demonstrate through scientific observation and those that we can only access through mysticism or shamanism- that is to say, through the human experience.

Just as individual organisms are more than the sum of their parts, so too entire ecosystems. Human groups have emergent properties that are greater than the sum of their members. I believe the Earth has emergent properties greater than the sum of all places and entities on earth. Personally, I also believe this about the Universe as a whole, which is what someone could call God or Spirit.

I somehow "hold onto God" but that is due to my individual experience and journey. I do not think it really matters if someone holds onto God or not, however, in the grand scheme of things in this life (despite my love of debating Tao - it's just good plain fun and of course I must put forth my little tidbits of thought). I think ultimately what is, is. I believe God is. So it's a bit irrelevant, if that is the case, what anyone thinks about It.

I think what truly matters is not belief, but action and intent. If an atheist is acting for justice, for forgiveness, for love... ultimately for life and the dignity of living beings... then to me they are in the Spirit of God whether they acknowledge it or not. (How d'ya like them apples, Tao? LOL )

The Kingdom of God is within us...