The Reason for Hell

[Ahanu]

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'"
Matthew 25:41

So did God create Hell for Satan and his angels?

[Thomas]

Hi Ahanu —

One way of reasoning is the Abrahamic Tradition are founded on certain axioms, most notably the union between God and the world in ma, the participation of the soul in the life of God, and that this union is not a given, but a choice.

That being the case, the end if one chooses to seek this order of participation is a profound immersion of the soul into God, which one might call 'heaven' (provisional in that the term should be understood in context), but logically the opposite must also be the case, that is an end if one chooses not to participate, and this end must (or should) comprise the idea of 'absolute non-participation' ...

Metaphysical principle does not move the volative mind however, nearly so successfully as the image, and man has really got to town on the invention of images and concepts to put 'flesh' on the metaphysical bones ...

God bless

Thomas

[Snoopy]

In Buddhist understanding, hell and heaven are constructs, whether in 'this' lifetime or another; when hell or heaven realms may beckon, dependent on effort. Perhaps Thomas we are saying something similar here, with differing words?


'To make hell into paradise, we need only change the mind on which it is based'

- Thich Nhat Hanh.

[Ahanu]

Originally Posted by Thomas

One way of reasoning is the Abrahamic Tradition are founded on certain axioms, most notably the union between God and the world in ma, the participation of the soul in the life of God, and that this union is not a given, but a choice.

So, for you, the reason for hell is not necessarily about Satan and his angels, but it is about the freedom to choose a union with God.

[Ahanu]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Perhaps Thomas we are saying something similar here, with differing words?


'To make hell into paradise, we need only change the mind on which it is based'

- Thich Nhat Hanh.

I don't think Thomas is saying heaven and hell are self-created constructs. Thomas writes: "That being the case, the end if one chooses to seek this order of participation is a profound immersion of the soul into God, which one might call 'heaven' . . ." This clearly shows he believes heaven and hell are realities outside of your brain, and God constructs this reality and allows the conditions for them to exist.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Ahanu

I don't think Thomas is saying heaven and hell are self-created constructs. Thomas writes: "That being the case, the end if one chooses to seek this order of participation is a profound immersion of the soul into God, which one might call 'heaven' . . ." This clearly shows he believes heaven and hell are realities outside of your brain, and God constructs this reality and allows the conditions for them to exist.

Perhaps you are right; I was responding I suppose to 'man has really got to town on the invention of images' in our attempt to answer the metaphysic of reality.

[Thomas]

As Ahanu says, I am saying there is a reality to the concepts — they are real states: union with 'It' (however one defines 'it') is heaven; separation from 'It' is hell.

How these states are described rather depends on who's talking to whom ... certainly the Medieval mind ran riot with the idea of eternal suffering and punishment, and grew most inventive with its imagery.

God bless,

Thomas

[radarmark]

Again, I see this in a contextual way. There is a good argument to be made that Matthew is influenced by the Enochian concept of Satan and his minions admistrating Sheol. This idea is obviously extra-Scriptural... and it probably influenced the ideas expressed. Only later, as Thomas indicates, did the mideval mind create the mythology of a Hell.

[Etu Malku]

Originally Posted by Ahanu

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'"
Matthew 25:41

So did God create Hell for Satan and his angels?

For me Hell was something manufactured in the mind and not a real place or a place that you will go to if you don't live a righteous life.

All civilizations as far back as recorded history (Sumerian, Egyptian, Indus Valley etc.) have a Hell/Underworld, except for most non-Abrahamic religions the Underworld was a magickal place where the "Hero" defeated demons and monsters (the Shadow Self), attained magickal weapons and/or super powers (Enlightenment/Gnosis), returned to the mundane world and shared these magickal tools with Mankind.

The Feminine aspect (Goddess) on the other hand usually descended into the Underworld in order to rescue a Beloved One and return Him to the mundane world in much the same way. In both stories of the Hero-ine, we have the ideas of After-Life & Resurrection.

Not until later (especially with Dante's Inferno) did Hell become the tool of guilt, fear, and oppression used by the Ahrahamic faiths to keep its Sheeple in line.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Etu Malku

Not until later (especially with Dante's Inferno) did Hell become the tool of guilt, fear, and oppression used by the Ahrahamic faiths to keep its Sheeple in line.

Hmm, was that a slip or pun to suggest Ahriman?

I really find this connection intriguing....

[Etu Malku]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Hmm, was that a slip or pun to suggest Ahriman?

I really find this connection intriguing....

LOL! The Devil made me type that!

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Etu Malku

LOL! The Devil made me type that!

Interesting--continuing on with the concept of hell and zoroastrianism in the bible: Malachi 4:1-3

4 [a]“For indeed, the day is coming, burning like a furnace, when all the arrogant and everyone who commits wickedness will become stubble. The coming day will consume them,” says the Lord of Hosts, “not leaving them root or branches. 2 But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings,(A) and you will go out and playfully jump like calves from the stall.[b] 3 You will trample the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day I am preparing,” says the Lord of Hosts.

LOL! The cross referenced scriptures listed for the "Sun of Righteousness"

Psalm 37:6

Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

6 making your righteousness shine like the dawn,
your justice like the noonday.(A)


Isaiah 58:8

Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

8 Then your light will appear like the dawn,
and your recovery will come quickly.(A)
Your righteousness will go before you,(B)
and the Lord’s glory will be your rear guard.(C)

Conclusion: I need a nap!

[radarmark]

moved to where it should be.

[desert-rat]

The church invented hell , the devil , punishment , ect to keep people in line . desert rat

[NiceCupOfTea]

Originally Posted by desert-rat

The church invented hell , the devil , punishment , ect to keep people in line . desert rat

yeah maybe but you have hell in islam as well and probably some other religions as well.