The Rush To Be Right

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by flowperson

Hi Q:

IMHO, theories of religion, spirituality, quantum physics, and cosmology are unified at some point in the universe, or outside of it. Call this G-d if you wish, but that's my thought on the matter. Think of G-d as an ultimate singularity. There is most certainly G-d because all of the component features of the universe intertwine and just seem to work so well together

It also has to do with the curious phenomenon that G-d seems to be immanent within us and also within all other features of the material universe that we are able to see and understand. I'm not saying this is "right" but this is a conclusion that I have been led to over the years. I am the "clay" and the "potter" made me into this "form of knowing" ...just paraphrasing something a wise person said elsewhere on this forum.

flow...

Well, here is where we differ. Math is a tool...God is not. though we might be...

[flowperson]

Hi again Q:

No I didn't say that G-d is a tool, I said that the elements of the universe comprise a tool set for G-d to use in Creation activities.

I certainly agree that most of us are tools, at least I know that I am much of the time.

My understanding of the ultimate purpose of math is that it is a symbolic system that is logic-based and allows humans, through its utilization as a tool of exploration, to theoretically access and describe universal realities that we cannot observe or directly access. I tend to think of it as a method of drawing pictures in the void of darkness. But, then again, one can also use math to compose novel forms of music.

flow....

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by flowperson

... But, then again, one can also use math to compose novel forms of music.

flow....

Indeed. Music is math set to frequency portrayed by sound, through a gaseous envelope, in which a "receiver" is designed to register and transmit to a "processor" owned by an intelligent "being", that may or may not appreciate the meaning of...

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Ah, the Rush to be Right...wasn't this about oh, yeah..."Imrightnurrongian" religion thingy?

Isn't that the opposite of Uncertainty?

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards!

Originally Posted by seattlegal

The Uncertainty Principle, again?

• What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning.--Werner Heisenberg

Isn't this where Schrödinger's cat makes his entrance (or not)? Or maybe, or kinda, or it depends on whether or not you're actually paying attention...

*Curiosity may have killed the cat, Schrödinger only killed half of it.* -(thanks Wikipedia!)

So, in the rush to be right, it depends who is paying attention???

[flowperson]

IMHO, observation is at least 50% of reality ( with all due respect to Herr Schrodinger).

And here's the real riddle in all of this. If we watch TV or play video games for hours a day, what might observing so much "simulated reality" be doing to our ability to discern the real from the artificial in the world around us ?

I believe that's why, as I ripen onto my later years, I'm so driven to somehow commune with nature more often, and why commercials selling us stuff to somehow "escape" are so effective. But like most people I'm trapped in a large urban area with multiresponsibilities to keep me here with my nose to the stone instead of out hugging the trees where I think I should be. Kind of like the entrapment scenario described in Bobby Winter's latest essay about mowing lawns.

ARRRRGGGHHHH !
(not the essay Bobby...the concept of involuntary entrapment)

flow....

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Flo!

Originally Posted by flowperson

IMHO, observation is at least 50% of reality ( with all due respect to Herr Schrodinger).

Ah...believe half of what you see, some or none of what you hear...

And here's the real riddle in all of this. If we watch TV or play video games for hours a day, what might observing so much "simulated reality" be doing to our ability to discern the real from the artificial in the world around us ?

Oh dear, you wouldn't be alluding to that liberal third rail buggaboo: censorship?

I believe that's why, as I ripen onto my later years, I'm so driven to somehow commune with nature more often, and why commercials selling us stuff to somehow "escape" are so effective.

Might I pose a different possibility? Perhaps commercials selling stuff to escape are so effective on people like yourself because you have an innate desire to commune with nature. (Ergo, such commercials would not be as effective on someone who did not have that innate desire, but rather a different innate desire. Vanity, perhaps, or a longing to "fit in," or raw sex, or any of a host of other possibilities.) This is called "targeting" your audience.

I might add, it seems to me our innate desires change as we "mature." Acid Rock gives way to Smooth Jazz.

But like most people I'm trapped in a large urban area with multiresponsibilities to keep me here with my nose to the stone instead of out hugging the trees where I think I should be. Kind of like the entrapment scenario described in Bobby Winter's latest essay about mowing lawns.

Yeah, Okie's great for human observations like that! Of course I am reminded, "the rat race is over...the rats won."

[flowperson]

Hi Juan:

No, censorship wasn't the issue behind my comment. IMHO, if we increasingly take our knowledge cues from observing artificiality such as the fare in commercial film, TV programming, and video games, how are our innate powers of discernment likely affected ? I believe this leads to confusion and that great curse that we have been so presciently warned of by the S. Asian cultures, maya.

BTW, this phenomenon, of confusing reality with the artificial really began in the 60's with the JFK, RFK, and MLK assassinations. Of course the explosion of conspiracy theories regarding the 9/11 tragedy is the latest iteration of this disease.

I'm not a consumer of escapism stuff. I tend to do most of my escaping inside of my head...but then...I'm a legend in my own mind !!

Never did the acid rock thing, but I still groove on Blues, Jazz, and Reggae. (Jah Rules !) Smooth Jazz reminds me of warm homoginized whole milk. It goes down easily enough, but will likely lead to a sour stomach later if you consume too much

Enjoy your day....flow

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Flo!

Originally Posted by flowperson

No, censorship wasn't the issue behind my comment.

Just wanted to be certain, 'cause if a conservative raises the exact same issue, the battle cry immediately goes out among the liberals: "CENSORSHIP! CENSORSHIP! Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!!!"

IMHO, if we increasingly take our knowledge cues from observing artificiality such as the fare in commercial film, TV programming, and video games, how are our innate powers of discernment likely affected ?

I agree. Yet, I tire of the knee-jerk reaction from the left about censorship on this issue. It is a strawman, I feel designed to avoid the issue, and it seems promugated primarily from the liberal media industrial complex.

I believe this leads to confusion and that great curse that we have been so presciently warned of by the S. Asian cultures, maya.

I'm afraid this is a little out of my line of understanding, although I have had this term cross my path. I would be interested to hear you expand on this.

BTW, this phenomenon, of confusing reality with the artificial really began in the 60's with the JFK, RFK, and MLK assassinations. Of course the explosion of conspiracy theories regarding the 9/11 tragedy is the latest iteration of this disease.

I'm not ready to surrender this to such a recent period of time. I think humanity has a tendency to conflate the real with the imagined, particularly if they are not first hand witness and participant in a specific event. This could have implications even to religious texts such as the Bible, but dates even into the period of the cave paintings. In a way, I guess, it is synonymous with confusing the messenger with the message.

I can grant that a particular type of this confusion became apparent with the advent of popular television, from the late '40's onward. When I was a young kid, 10 or 11, I knew a woman who was convinced that if it was on t.v., it was real. This, in the context of "Seahunt." Great show, but obviously fictional, even to me as a kid. This lady though thought otherwise, and try as I might I couldn't convince her. Afterall, I was "just a kid." What did I know?

I'm not a consumer of escapism stuff. I tend to do most of my escaping inside of my head...but then...I'm a legend in my own mind !!

And we love you here just the same. You do not have to be a "consumer" of escapism stuff. An awful lot of the stuff in advertising works subliminally, just beyond conscious thought. Using Freudian terms, it works on the Id.

Never did the acid rock thing, but I still groove on Blues, Jazz, and Reggae. (Jah Rules !)

I can deal. Aerosmith (the original, like "Dream On" and "Seasons of Wither") is probably about as Acid as I got. I was more into the "Sophisto" stuff, Supertramp still a fave. Kansas, ELO, Yes, Styx.

Smooth Jazz reminds me of warm homoginized whole milk. It goes down easily enough, but will likely lead to a sour stomach later if you consume too much

I still agree, but more and more that warm milk goes down better and better. Perish the thought, but it seems to be...

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Kindest Regards!

Isn't this where Schrödinger's cat makes his entrance (or not)? Or maybe, or kinda, or it depends on whether or not you're actually paying attention...

*Curiosity may have killed the cat, Schrödinger only killed half of it.* -(thanks Wikipedia!)

So, in the rush to be right, it depends who is paying attention???

I thought that was the "illusion" that David Copperfield portrayed...

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Kindest Regards!

Isn't this where Schrödinger's cat makes his entrance (or not)? Or maybe, or kinda, or it depends on whether or not you're actually paying attention...

*Curiosity may have killed the cat, Schrödinger only killed half of it.* -(thanks Wikipedia!)

So, in the rush to be right, it depends who is paying attention???

Actually, to me, it seems that if you try to put the cat in the box, you run the risk of killing it....it goes back to leaving something undefined--the stuff we don't know.

To quote Albert Einstein: “Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.”

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

To quote Albert Einstein: “Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.”

Hi,

Is this the same Albert Einstein that said…

"The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism."

s.

(shameless bumping)

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Hi,

Is this the same Albert Einstein that said…

"The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism."

s.

(shameless bumping)

One and the same!
(It seems he really didn't like the Uncertainty Principle. Didn't he also say, "God does not play dice with the universe?")

[Snoopy]

Hi,

I also like: "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton)

And thanks for posting the link to youtube for that TV prog.

s.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Hi,

I also like: "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton)

And thanks for posting the link to youtube for that TV prog.

s.

You'll never guess who was instrumental to bringing those links to my attention!