The Sacred Meaning of the Sexual Union - Page 2

GlorytoGod · 02-27-2009, 09:37 AM

How does Gay marriage fit in with all this ?

soleil10 · 02-27-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlorytoGod

How does Gay marriage fit in with all this ?

It does not. SS "marriage" is the opposite of what marriage is. Marriage brings the masculine and feminine of humanity together.

Dream · 02-27-2009, 12:58 PM

If you go back maybe 200 years in the USA, the scriptures were read by some to mean sex was completely taboo unless you were intending another child. As you can imagine, this was a very unhealthy thing for families. In many important passages the meaning has often been stretched to match what is popular or traditional, instead of what was healthy. Another example is that some churches simply do not have anyone that has been divorced, because they kick anyone out who gets one. What this represents is a failure to understand that scripture upholds love, health, & family above all other things; and you can use that as a guide to help interpret it. You really can, but many of us in the US (though we are not Calvinists) have inherited the Calvinist approach to things. This approach misses the point on too many occasions to be followed closely. Better to make mistakes than to assume we are right all the time.

soleil10 · 02-27-2009, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dream

Better to make mistakes than to assume we are right all the time.

Can you elaborate on this ? I am not sure, I understand what you mean.

Dream · 02-27-2009, 02:22 PM

Sure. The expectation that we can clearly understand when interpreting Scripture will from time to time lead to the false belief that we are. We are told in scripture that we see through a glass darkly for this very reason, to let us know that we do indeed live by grace. From time to time we forget that we see as through a glass darkly, and when we are doing well we tend to think it means our doctrines must be correct! "God has given me the interpretation for you!" "God has given me the vision for you!" <--- This is completely wrong! It is not a fundamentally supportable position, and it is a proud one! We are all in constant need of revelation of the Holy Spirit, as we cannot see very well. Conversion is a miracle, not a form to fill out; and 'God is no respecter of persons'. This is explained many times and in many ways. Times of pride are the times when creeds get written, when we decide our judgment is good enough for codification or needed for clarification for others.

Some references:

Quote:

I Corinthians 8:2-3 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

I Corinthians 13:9-13 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

I John 1:5-10
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

John 14:16-18 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Mathew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Mark 6:38,40,42 He saith unto them, How many loaves have ye? go and see. And when they knew, they say, Five, and two fishes.....And they sat down in ranks, by hundreds, and by fifties.... And they did all eat, and were filled.

John 3:27-28 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.

Romans 3:1-2 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Deuteronomy 1:17 Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.

Netti-Netti · 02-27-2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soleil10

It does not. SS "marriage" is the opposite of what marriage is. Marriage brings the masculine and feminine of humanity together.

Marriage is principally a civil institution. Especially in Europe, people are reproducing without actually getting married.

Unless you live in a theocracy, it doesn't really matter what the Biblical view is.

Btw, I believe all relationships are sacred; it doesn't have to be sexual.

soleil10 · 02-27-2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

Marriage is principally a civil institution. Especially in Europe, people are reproducing without actually getting married. Unless you live in a theocracy, it doesn't really matter what the Biblical view is.

Yes my post is about God's hope and expectations in creating the first family before they fell and His deep suffering for loosing his children.

Marsh · 02-27-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soleil10

God created the sexual union in order for God to have a Godly seed......To finally accomplish this hope is the very core purpose of human providential history.

If the purpose of "sexual union" (aka lovemaking) is and only is to produce "Godly seed" (aka kids), then why is it that God has made it so hard for me to keep my hands off of my wife, even when she is (as she is currently) pregnant and, hence, is unable to produce another "Godly seed" until the first one has......... sprouted?

There's a lot more to making love than just producing "Godly seed," Soleil. I'm not sure if you intended this, but it sure sounds like you are implying that making love for any reason other than having children is not in the plan. Or am I misreading?

See, the thing is you can never know how your kids are going to turn out, no matter how Godly a person might be. I've noticed a trend in which the children of pastors and religious elders quite often turn out to be extremely rebellious, because they have the most to rebel against. The book of Proverbs itself cautions against storing up wealth, because the child you give it too may turn out to be a fool and waste it all.

I agree that the primary purpose of lovemaking is to have children, but the Godly part is up to the individual, not the parents of that individual.

greymare · 02-27-2009, 07:49 PM

thats beautiful Marsh, and congrats on your impending fatherhood. LOVELY. Your wife is beautiful and tht is exactly how it should be. yayayayayayayyayay, keep us informed and i expect lots of baby photos when he/she arrives. (sorry, cant help it, its the grandma in me. lol)

soleil10 · 02-27-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh

If the purpose of "sexual union" (aka lovemaking) is and only is to produce "Godly seed" (aka kids), then why is it that God has made it so hard for me to keep my hands off of my wife, even when she is (as she is currently) pregnant and, hence, is unable to produce another "Godly seed" until the first one has......... sprouted?

There's a lot more to making love than just producing "Godly seed," Soleil. I'm not sure if you intended this, but it sure sounds like you are implying that making love for any reason other than having children is not in the plan. Or am I misreading?

The purpose of my post was not to say that the benefit of sexual unions is only to procreate children. Not at all.

What I was trying to express is what God experienced when A&E disconnected from Him and tainted their future lineage, basically leaving God out of it. This was the beginning of the fallen world as we know it with all the suffering that we see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh

See, the thing is you can never know how your kids are going to turn out, no matter how Godly a person might be. I've noticed a trend in which the children of pastors and religious elders quite often turn out to be extremely rebellious, because they have the most to rebel against.

A child is like a plant that has to be nurtured. By the time a child is 15/17 years old, it is to late to correct what happened in the early years.
What kind of environment the parents create spiritually and physically for their child is crucial. We have only one chance to do it right.

It has to do with priorities. For me safe education was first before a mortgage. It worked. Whatever your priorities are is what you will get at the end.

For pastors and leaders, sometimes they sacrifice their families in an unhealthy way. I also believe that Satan forces focuses on leaders first.If they can destroy the leaders' families, it has a great negative impact on others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh

The book of Proverbs itself cautions against storing up wealth, because the child you give it too may turn out to be a fool and waste it all.

It is very important for the parents to offer their baby to God in a ceremony and thank God at every birthday. It is God's child first. God is his or her Heavenly Parent. One of my fear has always been that my children would not do well and that I would die with regrets leaving a mess behind me. That is a great fear to have. It helped me to make sure, it does not happened.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh

I agree that the primary purpose of lovemaking is to have children, but the Godly part is up to the individual, not the parents of that individual.

Like for A&E, as their grew, they became responsible for their action.

Love comes before Life but lineage is even more important than Love and Life.

Wishing you the best with your new baby.