The Science of Kabbalah

[Kelcie]

Hi kabbalah,

Thank you for sharing your understanding. I have a few thoughts and questions

kabbalah studies universal truths empirically,

If kabbalah is a science that studies these truths. Does the big bang get referred to?

Kabbalists tell us the Creator is completely altruistic and rules the world in complete benevolence.

Just our world or the universe?

The creation consist of entirely opposite qualities to the creator is it is to have free choice in receiving the pleasure,

So the creator is the transmitter of benevolence and we are the receivers of this benevolence?

Adam's soul was split into 600,000 parts,

Is this similar to the holographic principle of the universe?

If a person corrects themselves, they can begin to sense the spiritual world, of which our world is a mere shadow.

So we build a Masach to correct ourselves? What is the Masach made up of of?

Kabbalists are not able to percieve the Creator's essence, but are able to perceive Ein Sof (Hebrew, literally "no end") which is the Creator's desire to delight his creation.

Is there any difference? Essence or No End.or do you mean cannot perceive the infiniteness of the creator?

Kabbalists who reached a high level, were able to see that the Creator is the only power in this world, that all is done out of his desire to delight

So were Jesus and Buddha Kabbalists? They were able to see their creator too.

Olam HaZeh (this world) is only a small shadow of the true reality in which only 3 things exist: the creator, the light of the creator and the souls that He created.

Is this light the benevolence the creator rules the world with?

It is said that even the slightest pleasures received from creating the Masach are greater than all of the pleasures experienced ever experienced by all of humanity combined from Ner Dakik, the small candle. Money, power, fame, sex are but a trickle of the Creator's light.

This is true in most religions concept of God.

If a person corrects their selfishness to bestowal, they will see that all the wrongs ever done to them, that they though were coming from other people or from blind nature or chance were actually gifts sent by the Creator so that they would correct themselves

Gifts of Benevolence huh?

Kabbalah was once limited to only certain people, until the Ari said that from his time onwards, all people of all races, genders, ages etc could and should and MUST study it. The only prequesite is a DESIRE to study it.

Why was it limited to only certain people? That’s good to know it is now available to everyone.



Kabbalah is strikingly close to eastern thought with a distinct Christian flavour from what I can tell.

Why does Kabbalists call it a science? Science of thought perhaps, or science of the universe?

Kelcie

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

Originally Posted by kabbalah

So can buddism go beyond the desire to receive? I personally don't think so.

Perhaps you should do a little research into Buddhism before making such statements.

The short answer is that this is the whole point in buddhism. The state of enlightenment is often described as "an end to seeking"


As a Mahayana Buddhist, I believe whole heartedly that life is suffering. The only way to escape from the suffering is to achieve enlightenment, which we attempt to do through meditation and altruism and generally following the eight fold path.

However, my absolute aim as a mahayana buddhist is not to enter into full enlightenment, but to become a Bhoddisattva and help all other beings liberate themselves first. I dedicate every meditation to the enlightenment and liberation of all.


Sorry everyone, I know I said I would stay out of the monothesim sections but I thought this was relevant here.

[pohaikawahine]

This thread makes me think of two questions .... What is a mystic? and What is desire? Kabbalah, is sometimes referred to as the path of the Jewish Mystic .... and exactly what is a mystic .... one reference that I read used the term "hakkim libba" (sorry if I misspelled this or anything) the mystic is wise of heart and the mystic speaks in metaphors and symbols hidden in the veils ....


I also read an article by Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz on the Song of Songs .... "I sleep but my heart is awake" which took me on a path of looking into the meanings in the Song of Songs. The article was in a publication called "Parabola ... the Search for Meaning - Awakening" printed in the Spring of 2005. Then I read in another book (I didn't write the reference, sorry "Verily the Torah lets out a word (sound) and emerges a little from her sheath and then hides herself again. But she does this only for those who know and obey her. For the Torah resembles a beautiful and stately damsel, who is hidden in a secluded chamber of her palace and whose secret lover is unknown to all others. For love of her, he keeps passing the gate of her house, looking this way and that in search of her. When he comes to her, she begins to speak words from behind a curtain .... slowly in sight comes to him, and this is called 'derashe' (mode of interpretation practiced by Talmudists, by which they derived the exoteric and oral doctrine from the words of scripture) .... only when he becomes familiar with her oes she reveal herself to him face to face and speaks of all the hidden secrets and all her hidden ways which have been in her heart from the beginning." This speaks in those most beautiful way to the concept of "desire" and what it takes to understand the inner meaning of the Torah. Desire, ectasy, passion .... all the same meanings .... in a sense this is what happens to the Sufi's (followers of the path of the mystics) when they spin .... they go into a form of trance or meditation .... and it takes place in the brain .... so science is now showing us what happens in the brain when one is seeking pleasure or falls madly in love .... two key brain chemicals regulate how happy the body feels .... dopamine, which is released in the nucleus accumbens and the frontal cortex, and endorphins, which are chemically similar to morphine, promote pleasure by dampening pain and producing a natural high .... scans of the brains of lovers as they gaze at photos of their loved ones shows different parts of the brain with heightened activity in passionate lovers .... the tiny ventral tegmental area where dopamine is produced and the "caudate nucleus" which plays a key role in the brain's motivation and reward system (see Time article January 19, 2004 "Your Brain in Love) .... if it is "desire" or "passion" that takes us to the path of God then it is possible that it directly connected with these chemical changes in the brain. The "caudate nucleus" is the structure that covers or protects the center of the brain that houses the pineal gland, which is also known as the third eye. So perhaps the "path of the mystic" has both spiritual and scientific bases .... while we can know and understand the empirical evidence of the scientific, it requires "faith and desire" to walk it. Just my thoughts to share . he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

[kabbalah]

Hi kabbalah,

Thank you for sharing your understanding. I have a few thoughts and questions



If kabbalah is a science that studies these truths. Does the big bang get referred to?


It's reffered to a bit. Most of what is studied in the creation of the worlds from above downward, which is mostly before time and space existed, time and space only occur at later stages when the creation becomes extremely remote from the Creator.


Just our world or the universe?


The whole universe, of course the entire physical universe can be considered imaginary. It isn't self existing, but is a distorted reality filtered through our desire to receive pleasure. Just like a dream is not considered real, neither is the picture we get from our five senses.


So the creator is the transmitter of benevolence and we are the receivers of this benevolence?

correct





Is this similar to the holographic principle of the universe?


I don't really know much about the holographic principle, but as far as I can tell, no




So we build a Masach to correct ourselves? What is the Masach made up of of?

Masach is not corporeal, it is "made of" intention

also, it's actually the Creator who builds the Masach



Is there any difference? Essence or No End.or do you mean cannot perceive the infiniteness of the creator?

The difference is this: Ein Sof is what comes from the Creator, Atzmuto is the Creator himself, we only know that Atzmuto exists, but not what exactly it is, we can understand the entire process of creation, the thought of creation, and everything that comes from the Creator, but not his essence

So were Jesus and Buddha Kabbalists? They were able to see their creator too.

As far as I know Buddha didn't talk about the Creator.

Jesus was Jewish, I have no idea if he was a kabbalist or not

Is this light the benevolence the creator rules the world with?

yes



This is true in most religions concept of God.

the difference is that kabbalah allows one to acheive it while still living in this world, no need to wait for death



Gifts of Benevolence huh?

correct



Why was it limited to only certain people? That’s good to know it is now available to everyone.

Most people were not ready for it in the past. Humanity's egoism was developing naturally with a small amount of Kabbalists who were ready to learn the secrets of existence and leave behind a method for future generations.

Today, the question "what is the meaning of my life" is burning inside people stronger than ever. It was written in the Zohar thousands of years ago " “At the end of the 20th century people will leave illusory teachings and discover Kabbalah and then the new Era will come - the Era of Messiah.”

people didn't need it back then, and they may have distorted kabbalah more than it allready has been

Kabbalah is strikingly close to eastern thought with a distinct Christian flavour from what I can tell.

it's actually very different from any other "path"

Why does Kabbalists call it a science? Science of thought perhaps, or science of the universe?

It's a science because it investigates the upper worlds, just as a scientist in this world investigates this world. this article explains in detail http://www.kabbalahgroup.info/eng/kc_science_01.php

Kelcie

[kabbalah]

pohaikawahine, we can see that the brain/genes/hormones do determine all our actions in this world, Rav Laitman gave a lecture saying there is no such thing as love in this world:

"This is very simple. I already said that a person who exists within his own ego cannot feel love. Love implies that I love someone. But I do not love someone. I love someone the same way as when we say "I love fish". Regrettably, this is how we love."

"It follows that a person who has not crossed the Machsom yet is not even able to comprehend what Kabbalah means by love, and in general, what love is."

"It is impossible to love without these corrections, as an egoist is incapable of loving. He loves only that which makes him feel good. This is not love; this is exploitation of one's neighbor; we simply call it love."

Of course, a lot of the people were kind of upset at this. It's kind of hard to believe theres no love in this world, but according to Kabbalah: we're enslaved by our egoism, which is the same as being a slave to our genes, and desires, therefore, no true love.

But the good thing is it's possible to elevate above this world where there is love!

Oh, and to explain what I think about buddism, I have no doubt that their stated goal is altruism, however, I don't think they have a way of achieving it. We can see that humans are born 100% egoist without the slightest hint of altruism. Only the creator is capable of "yesh mi ein," something from nothing. How can you, at the level of 100% egoist, turn yourself into an altruist? only the Creator can make something from nothing, therefore only the Creator can give one a second nature of altruism.

[kabbalah]

and of course, the "altruistic second nature" isn't actually yesh mi en because it exists in the creator allready, but I think you get the point, we aren't capable of changing our own nature.

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

we aren't capable of changing our own nature.

This would seem to be the point of fundamental disagreement. What made me investigate buddhism in the first place was a general belief that we can be much more than we are.

[Kelcie]

Hi kabbalah,

It's reffered to a bit. Most of what is studied in the creation of the worlds from above downward, which is mostly before time and space existed, time and space only occur at later stages when the creation becomes extremely remote from the Creator.

Excellent so it is science of thought or more precisely theoretical science as opposed to science that can be proved by tried and tested methods.

The whole universe, of course the entire physical universe can be considered imaginary. It isn't self existing, but is a distorted reality filtered through our desire to receive pleasure. Just like a dream is not considered real, neither is the picture we get from our five senses.

This hints toward the holgraphic principle of the universe. According to this theory that also ties in with Adam and the splitting of his soul to 6000000.
Simply put it is theorised that from the one original each and every one of us through an energy interference of some kind have become a holograph of the original piece. In each holograph however contains all the information of the original piece and the subsequent holographs that were created from the first hologram. So what we perceive with any of our physical senses is merely a hologram of what is actually inside us containing all the holograms.

Masach is not corporeal, it is "made of" intention

also, it's actually the Creator who builds the Masach

So we have nothing to do but let the creator do it for us?

The difference is this: Ein Sof is what comes from the Creator, Atzmuto is the Creator himself, we only know that Atzmuto exists, but not what exactly it is, we can understand the entire process of creation, the thought of creation, and everything that comes from the Creator, but not his essence

Sort of like the grace of God

the difference is that kabbalah allows one to acheive it while still living in this world, no need to wait for death

No difference in my mind. Most religions try to achieve this while we are living.

Most people were not ready for it in the past. Humanity's egoism was developing naturally with a small amount of Kabbalists who were ready to learn the secrets of existence and leave behind a method for future generations.

Many indigenous people and eastern philosophers will tend to disagree with you there, their understanding of the creator existed from the beginning of time. Even in Jesus's time they dwelt within God perhaps more often than we do in todays world and in my mind we have gone backwards rather than forward. Perhaps Kabbalist renewed this knowledge. Although in saying that most ancient people never lost the knowledge.

Today, the question "what is the meaning of my life" is burning inside people stronger than ever. It was written in the Zohar thousands of years ago " “At the end of the 20th century people will leave illusory teachings and discover Kabbalah and then the new Era will come - the Era of Messiah.”

I would agree with you there, I think it is more because we have distanced ourselves from that which was known to the ancients in any belief system. The Zohar didnt come out till the 13th century correct me if I am wrong. That was after a lot of the really ancient texts had already been written that contains a lot of what you explain about the kabbalah.

people didn't need it back then, and they may have distorted kabbalah more than it allready has been

Perhaps back then "what is the meaning of my life" did not mean much because they knew what it was.

it's actually very different from any other "path"

In some ways I would agree, but closer inspection reveals that it is another path just like a lot of the others that is intended to help us understand the creator if we believe in one, or to understand our true existence.

No one path to me is better than another, it is a path that is suited to the traveller. Thank you for the time you have taken to explain Kabbalah to me. I wish you well on your journey.

Kelcie

[pohaikawahine]

Originally Posted by kabbalah

"It follows that a person who has not crossed the Machsom yet is not even able to comprehend what Kabbalah means by love, and in general, what love is."

The love, desire and passion that I speak of is not the love that you have described .... it is the passion to know, the passion to seek, the desire to find the way .... and I suppose it is a form of unconditional love .... it must be possible to love the way the Kabbalah means it, or we could not find our way .... I don't know what it means to "cross the Machsom" and would appreciate it if you would enlighten me on its meaning .... the task at hand it not an impossible one, so it must be possible to "love" completely with abandon in order to see the inner meaning of the Torah for example .... it would be a sad day when there is no love in this world .... love, pohaikawahine

[kabbalah]

Originally Posted by pohaikawahine

The love, desire and passion that I speak of is not the love that you have described .... it is the passion to know, the passion to seek, the desire to find the way .... and I suppose it is a form of unconditional love .... it must be possible to love the way the Kabbalah means it, or we could not find our way .... I don't know what it means to "cross the Machsom" and would appreciate it if you would enlighten me on its meaning .... the task at hand it not an impossible one, so it must be possible to "love" completely with abandon in order to see the inner meaning of the Torah for example .... it would be a sad day when there is no love in this world .... love, pohaikawahine

the love you are speaking about is somewhat different, perhaps what kabbalah refers to as a "point in the heart," the desire for something greater than yourself, not of this world, the point in the heart is thought of as the embryo of the soul, it is a tiny point of Bina, implanted in the egoistical heart from above.

The goal of studying kabbalah is to attract Ohr Makif (surrounding light), which gradually increases the person's desire for spirituality, shows them the full extent of their own evil, and makes them feel "lovesick" for the Creator and perceive their own egoism as the only thing separating them from the Creator.

The Machsom is the barrier that separates egoism from altruism, everything below Machsom is 100% selfishness, and beyond Machsom is altruism, of course Machsom isn't the end. Heres description of spiritual ascent through kabbalah:

The light that we receive at the time of study, corrects us. Later, we ascend the levels called “reward and punishment”. Reward and punishment are also defined in terms of a person’s correction and love that he begins to feel when he reveals the Creator. We sense the revelation of the Creator as infinite good and delight, felt in all desires, in our whole Kli.
Later, ascending the levels of reward and punishment, a human being starts correcting his or her Kli into unconditional love (that is not dependant on anything). One goes beyond reward and punishment, reward and punishment meaning one's relation to the Creator, which is gauged by what one feels from Him - good or evil.

Beyond this, there is a degree of love, where no matter how the Creator acts upon me, I feel love towards Him. This does not mean that I love the Creator despite the fact that He is sending me unpleasant sensations. On the contrary, I ascend to the level of correction where I do not feel that He emanates bad, because then I am corrected in my Kli and therefore I feel only good from Him.

This is how a person examines himself against his past. He realizes that in all of his previous reincarnations the Creator has never inflicted harm upon him, even though he sees all the horrible events having taken place in all of his previous reincarnations. Love reveals itself beyond these horrible sensations experienced in the past - love for what has happened in the past is happening now, and will happen in the future. Love for the future means that a person carries on, advances, and reaches his personal Final Correction.


But this is not enough that a person feels only the Creator’s relation to him; still, there is a defect in his love of the Creator. Maybe the Creator relates well just to me, but not to the rest of the souls. Or, maybe, he treats them well today, but didn't yesterday.

And then a person, in essence, has to connect with every soul, to receive, or to adopt its entire lacking, all the desires, all the inner content, and to incorporate it to himself, and do what he did with his own soul in the process of correction and his examination of the Creator’s relation towards him from the beginning of creation till its very end - he has to do the same with all the rest of the souls.

When a human being completes this work with all the souls, and is convinced that the Creator never inflicts harm on any created being, it is within this realization that he reaches the eternal love of the Creator. This is what we have to attain, as it is said in the prayer “Shma, Israel” (Hear, O Israel): “And thou shalt love HaShem thy G-d”. This is our goal. Through this, we all connect into a single Kli. Not only us, but the whole of humanity has to reach this state and to become an integral part of this Kli. This is what the notion of perfect, absolute love refers to, and all the preceding degrees are but the levels of imperfect love.

^^Hopefully this explanation will help explain how different Kabbalah is from everything else, in all my searches I've never come across something that spoke of this.

Oh and for Kelcie's questions: the Creator does everything, we only have to realize how terrible our egoism is and pray for correction, the study of kabbalah intensifies the desire for correction until one is capable of "raising MAN" (the perfect prayer)

A lot of historians believe that Moshe de Leon wrote the Zohar in Spain in the 13th century, but all true Kabbalists say that it was Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai in Israel shortly after the destruction of the second Temple. Baal Hasulam says in his Introduction to the Zohar:

"All serious students who have studied the Holy Zohar -- that is those who understand its contents -- universally agree that its author is the holy Luminary, Rabbi Shimon Bar Yohai. Only those who are far from a true understanding of this wisdom have doubts about its authorship. On the basis of external evidence they claim that its author was the noted Kabbalist, Rabbi Moshe de Leon or one of his period.

As for myself, from the day that I merited through the light of G-d to understand a little in this holy book, it never occurred to me to question its authorship for the simple reason that from the contents of the book, there came to my heart a sense of the holiness of the Luminary, Rabbi Shimon Bar Yohai which was immeasurably greater than that of the other holy Lights. If it was completely clear to me that the author was someone else such as Rabbi Moshe de Leon, then I would think of him as having attained a level far beyond that of the righteous saints and even greater than that of Rabbi Shimon bar Yohai. Actually, the book reaches such a depth of wisdom that if it turned out that its author was one of the ancient prophets of the Bible, I would find that even more reasonable than ascribing its authorship to one of the righteous saints. Even were it to be proved that Moses, our Teacher, received it straight from G-d on Mt. Sinai, I would have no difficulty accepting this fact, so deep is the wisdom I see in it.

Therefore, since I have been privileged to write an explanation of this book in such a way that anyone who is interested can understand something of it, I feel myself discharged from the need to research the identity of its author. When the reader begins to appreciate the depth of this work, he or she will themselves feel satisfied that it must have been written by someone who has attained at the very least the spiritual level of the Holy Rabbi Shimon bar Yohai."

[pohaikawahine]

Originally Posted by kabbalah

The goal of studying kabbalah is to attract Ohr Makif (surrounding light), which gradually increases the person's desire for spirituality, ."

dear kabbalah .... I don't think we are too far apart in our understanding of love and desire for spirituality ..... thank you for your explanation ....

Here is an introductory question posed in the book "Beholders of Divine Secrets .... Mysticism and Myth in the Hekhalot and Merkavah Literature" by Vita Daphna Arbel (the book emerged from a doctoral thesis, written in Hebrew, which was submitted to the Hebrew University in Jerusalem in 1997)

"Rabbi Akiva said:

Who is able to contemplate the seven palaces
and behold the heaven of heavens
and see the chambers of chambers
and say. 'I saw the chamber of YH?' "
-- Ma'aseh Merkavah, Synpose, 554.

"this is a spiritual introspective process taking place on an internal level .... and claims the existence of a different reality, beyond the phenomenological world, envisioned as a celestial realm of God, in which his divine palace is situated in the heaven of heavens." a religious consciousness is described ....
and the keys to understanding concealed visions requires an 'understanding of the heart' ... the opening of Hekhalot Zutarti suggests:

"If you want to single yourself out in the world
so that the secrets of the world
and the mysteries of wisdom will be revealed to you,
study this teaching and be careful with it
until the day of your departure.
Do not try to understand what lies behind you
and do not investigate the words of your lips.
You will try to understand what is in your heart
and keep silent,
so that you will attain the beauty of the Merkavah."

The Merkavah is symbolized in the Star of David .... in sacred geometry the star tetrhedron - the Star of David - is a counter rotating field linked to spirals of movement of counsciousness from one level of reality to another. This is part of Merkaba - rotation and movement of consciousness.

In the Pyramid Texts there is a verse that talks of the opening of the third eye or second sight .... it is sometimes described as "the light of a star in the middle of the two eyebrows" ....in order to open this second sight one must return to the perfect balance (this is another symbol in the Star of David .... the two triangles represent the perfect balance of male and female energies) ....

just as you state that it may not be important who the author of the Zohar may be .... it is probably not important how we define "love", only that we "love" and open the gate to this spiritual path .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

[human1111]

Originally Posted by pohaikawahine

The love, desire and passion that I speak of is not the love that you have described .... it is the passion to know, the passion to seek, the desire to find the way ....

Unless these things are 100% for the other, than it is still egoism. It seems that all the love a person does for another is selfish to a degree, thus egoism.

Kabbalah has an impossible (without Divine help) standard of altruism, nothing like of this world.

So of course it is different from our normal ideas about love/altruism etc.

My humble 2 cents.

[bananabrain]

Hopefully this explanation will help explain how different Kabbalah is from everything else, in all my searches I've never come across something that spoke of this.

no offence, kabbalah, but you do come across as a little chauvinistic, in the manner, unfortunately, of many who are totally committed to the way of nistar. personally, i would think twice about making assertions about buddhism in particular. i doubt that you're an expert on everything, so i'd avoid making universal assertions that you can't really back up.

besides, the idea that "there is no wisdom in the nations" is actually a later chasidic idea (and, as such, an attittude likely to be found in the ba'al sulam) rather than one that dates back to the early masters. the idea of the "nefesh elokit" and "nefesh beheimit", for example, is far more related to the "tanya" than the zohar.

*my* studies have led me to conclude that there are several wisdom schools that would give kabbalah a pretty good run for its money as far as all-encompassing, comprehensive systems are concerned. don't let the fact that kabbalah is your path (and therefore better for *you* than any other) blind you to the possibility of other people having other ways up the mountain. that's a trap of the tribal ego - as you ought to recognise if you're truly practicing kabbalistic self-negation. btw - i'm not saying all paths are equally valid, but it's not a question of kabbalah simply being the one and only option.

oh, and you don't always explain your terms sufficiently. "kli" for example. i know what you mean, but it's clear other people don't.

however, i do like r. ashlag's explanation of why the question of the identity of the author of the zohar is irrelevant.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[kabbalah]

Originally Posted by human1111

Unless these things are 100% for the other, than it is still egoism. It seems that all the love a person does for another is selfish to a degree, thus egoism.

Kabbalah has an impossible (without Divine help) standard of altruism, nothing like of this world.

So of course it is different from our normal ideas about love/altruism etc.

My humble 2 cents.

yes! no true spiritual advancement is possible without divine help!

[kabbalah]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

no offence, kabbalah, but you do come across as a little chauvinistic, in the manner, unfortunately, of many who are totally committed to the way of nistar. personally, i would think twice about making assertions about buddhism in particular. i doubt that you're an expert on everything, so i'd avoid making universal assertions that you can't really back up.

besides, the idea that "there is no wisdom in the nations" is actually a later chasidic idea (and, as such, an attittude likely to be found in the ba'al sulam) rather than one that dates back to the early masters. the idea of the "nefesh elokit" and "nefesh beheimit", for example, is far more related to the "tanya" than the zohar.

*my* studies have led me to conclude that there are several wisdom schools that would give kabbalah a pretty good run for its money as far as all-encompassing, comprehensive systems are concerned. don't let the fact that kabbalah is your path (and therefore better for *you* than any other) blind you to the possibility of other people having other ways up the mountain. that's a trap of the tribal ego - as you ought to recognise if you're truly practicing kabbalistic self-negation. btw - i'm not saying all paths are equally valid, but it's not a question of kabbalah simply being the one and only option.

oh, and you don't always explain your terms sufficiently. "kli" for example. i know what you mean, but it's clear other people don't.

however, i do like r. ashlag's explanation of why the question of the identity of the author of the zohar is irrelevant.

b'shalom

bananabrain

what can I say? I guess I do think kabbalah is the only way.

nice rhyme eh?

I suppose I'm not an expert on other paths, but everything else seems to not be able to explain everthing, while Kabbalah seems to be able to. to me anyway