The Secret: A Cosmic Dream Machine

[BlaznFattyz]

"You are God in a physical body ... You are all power ... You are all intelligence ... You are the creator( p. 164)." - The Secret

On Feb. 8, 2007, the topic of a book and newly released DVD called The Secret debuted on Oprah Winfrey’s television show. Due to the immense response, a follow-up show aired on Feb. 16. The Secret, written by Rhonda Byrne, claims to teach us how we can create our own reality via certain attitudes, beliefs, and actions. It is not the goal of this article to share these steps, so they are referred to here only to the degree needed for this evaluation. In my past, I learned about and believed these teachings before they were called The Secret, so they are quite familiar to me.

THE SECRET AND ITS DOWNSIDE
The Secret is explained as a spiritual law based on the “law of attraction.” According to this “law,” we are energy and our thoughts are energy, so whatever we "put out" draws the same kind of energy back to us. If we think or believe a negative thing, such as “I will never get a good job,” then we have just “placed an order” (as one panelist on the Oprah show put it) to the universe, as one would do in a restaurant, and that is what will happen. However, if we believe, feel, and act on a something good that we desire, then that is what will come to pass. We are supposed to believe and act as if that which we desire has already come about.

Some good points were made: we should be grateful for what we have, and we should be forgiving. These attitudes are beneficial for everyone, and most likely enable us to fare better in life. However, rather than appreciating these purely for their moral value, they are taught as part of techniques that allow us to be open to receiving what we want when we learn to create our own reality.

Cont'd

[wil]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

On Feb. 8, 2007, the topic of a book and newly released DVD called The Secret debuted on Oprah Winfrey’s television show.

The movie came out March of 2006, the book soon after, but somehow Oprah debuted on Feb 8th...almost a year later...and after millions had seen, read and discussed it...

[AndrewX]

`The Secret' is quite popular with a good friend of mine, a co-esotericist. I think another mutual friend of ours would also appreciate it, if her eyesight or hearing would allow her to sample it. Alas, at 101 not everything is possible.

I haven't been overwhelmingly impressed by `The Secret,' but I do find it important that the Law of Attraction is being introduced to folks on so wide a scale. Indeed, Jesus taught this, and on no uncertain grounds. His message is no different than the beginning of the Dhammapada - The Pairs.

As for the bit you quoted, Blazn, "You are God in a physical body ... You are all power ... You are all intelligence ... You are the creator( p. 164)," what do you think of this? Do you regard it as pride? Or do you see such statements as flat wrong? Are we looking at error by excess, or are these statements completely unfounded? What do other folks think?

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by AndrewX

As for the bit you quoted, Blazn, "You are God in a physical body ... You are all power ... You are all intelligence ... You are the creator( p. 164)," what do you think of this? Do you regard it as pride? Or do you see such statements as flat wrong? Are we looking at error by excess, or are these statements completely unfounded? What do other folks think?

It's kinda a Catch-22. I don't want to fall into the mistake that we are gods, as Adam and Eve did, fooled into their own morality and mortality. Lust of the world, lust of the flesh, and the pride of life is what did them in. Pride is what cause the fall of Lucifer. We are reminded in scripture that pride goeth before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall, morassed in our own intrigue.

Yet at the same time, it makes no sense to view ourselves less as sons of God if His primary goal is to conform us into His image. I am reminded of the parable of the caterpiller who continues to think and act as a caterpiller even after turning into a butterfly, still crawling along, never venturing to fly. If the Spirit of God indwells in us, and we are heirs to the kingdom, then what is to keep us from acting as God? If God made us in His Image, does that also mean we can create, to grow, to explore possibilities that are given to us by God?

I suppose the crux in the matter is what we find in legacy of Stan Lee's Spiderman, "With great power comes great responsibility". What are we going to do with our power, our intellect, our creativity once we obtain it?

[AndrewX]

Beautifully put, Dondi!

Yes, it seems we have several options when it comes to Responsibility. Or, perhaps all these options can even be simplified into a very simple scale. I like to think of it as not whether, but when (?).

I heartily recommend a new movie out, called `Meet the Robinsons.' I watched this last night, and though it's a kids' film on the one hand, it's quite a "grown-up" film on the other. Full of excitement, wonder and all the familiar complexities of time-travel, it doesn't overlook some very important moral messages that kids nowadays - and maybe adults as well - need to hear.

And I think this has bearing on, and gets us back to, the topic at hand. What in `The Secret' might be a message whose time has come? Could it be that we're finally reaching the point where our choices - not just individually, but more collectively - will have repercussions for many generations to come, and affect ALL people, ALL societies, and therefore ALL religions and governments, on a truly GLOBAL scale???

I think this is the message folks are trying to get across, six ways from Sunday, as the expression goes. Sunday counts just as much as any other day, yet no other day counts any less. That's the way I see it. If Faith the size of a mustard seed moves mountains, then what does the power of the ATOM do ... once we tap it for CREATIVE potential, rather than destructive?

And if that's just "matter" - what about mind, and Spirit?

[Faithfulservant]

"....You are not gods you are not THAT intelligent...you only create because you are the image of the Almighty God and thats how HE created you.."

sorry Satan you lost when He died and rose again.

[pattimax]

Amen!

[AndrewX]

**** that infernal Bible book - Satan just makes it get the better of you every time!!!

Psalms 82:6

NASB: I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High. (NASB ©1995)
GWT: I said, "You are gods. You are all sons of the Most High. (GOD'S WORD®)
KJV: I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
ASV: I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.
BBE: I said, You are gods; all of you are the sons of the Most High:
DBY: I have said, Ye are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High;
JPS: I said: Ye are godlike beings, and all of you sons of the Most High.
WBS: I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High.
WEB: I said, "You are gods, all of you are sons of the Most High.
YLT: I -- I have said, 'Gods ye are, And sons of the Most High -- all of you,

Hmmmmmm ....

John 10:33-36

KJV: The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

KJV: Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

KJV: If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

KJV: Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


... squirm squirm squirm squirm squirm squirm squirm squirm squirm squirm

Now say you, or say you not (some of you), that the Bible is the unequivocal "Word of God?" If you say this, then you must reconcile the PLURALITY of the word "GODS," found both in the New Testament and in the Old Testament, against your own declaration, and insistence, that "man is not a god."

Which is it? You can't have it both ways. And your own Bible says Man IS A GOD. The word is PLURAL. Not only Christ Jesus, but "YE" are said to be "GODS."

Gee, I do wish the Christians would READ THEIR OWN BIBLES once in awhile, and stop trying to have things both ways. Either you are wretched, miserable, no-good, worthless, scum-sucking sinners ... OR YOU ARE GODS. Please make up your mind (singular).

Is my intelligence Godlike? Hell no. But I will say this. I can see the wiggling and wriggling going on here. And it is not I who am twisting or changing around the Biblical teaching. My apologies that Jesus' words, and those of the Psalmists before him, are not convenient in this case to support the beliefs at hand.


Indeed, The Secret tried to make its appearance 2100 years ago. And its Revealer was crucified then in reward. No, it was not popular with those who preferred the old ways. And thus they reviled him, and sought to cast Him out, calling Him a devil. And they sat smugly in their judgement of, contempt for, His Teaching.

News Flash - SSDD - News Flash - SSDD - News Flash - SSDD

History repeats itself. But that's old news now ... isn't it.

[earl]

I think Dondi's point, Andrew, may be hubris is mistaking "my" will for "thy" will, which becomes even easier to do without a certain separation of powers shall I say. Guess that's why for me panentheism is perhaps a safer bet. Yes I've got that "breath of God" in me and if I'm very attuned to the Source, there may be moments I'm being breathed by God. But if I allow myself to think I'm co-equivalent with source, then ego rushes in to fill up the receiving space meant for the next breath. have a good one, earl

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by AndrewX

Damn that infernal Bible book - Satan just makes it get the better of you every time!!!

Psalms 82:6

NASB: I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High. (NASB ©1995)
GWT: I said, "You are gods. You are all sons of the Most High. (GOD'S WORD®)
KJV: I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
ASV: I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.
BBE: I said, You are gods; all of you are the sons of the Most High:
DBY: I have said, Ye are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High;
JPS: I said: Ye are godlike beings, and all of you sons of the Most High.
WBS: I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High.
WEB: I said, "You are gods, all of you are sons of the Most High.
YLT: I -- I have said, 'Gods ye are, And sons of the Most High -- all of you,

Hmmmmmm ....

John 10:33-36

KJV: The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

KJV: Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

KJV: If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

KJV: Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


... squirm squirm squirm squirm squirm squirm squirm squirm squirm squirm

Now say you, or say you not (some of you), that the Bible is the unequivocal "Word of God?" If you say this, then you must reconcile the PLURALITY of the word "GODS," found both in the New Testament and in the Old Testament, against your own declaration, and insistence, that "man is not a god."

Which is it? You can't have it both ways. And your own Bible says Man IS A GOD. The word is PLURAL. Not only Christ Jesus, but "YE" are said to be "GODS."

Gee, I do wish the Christians would READ THEIR OWN BIBLES once in awhile, and stop trying to have things both ways. Either you are wretched, miserable, no-good, worthless, scum-sucking sinners ... OR YOU ARE GODS. Please make up your mind (singular).

Is my intelligence Godlike? Hell no. But I will say this. I can see the wiggling and wriggling going on here. And it is not I who am twisting or changing around the Biblical teaching. My apologies that Jesus' words, and those of the Psalmists before him, are not convenient in this case to support the beliefs at hand.


Indeed, The Secret tried to make its appearance 2100 years ago. And its Revealer was crucified then in reward. No, it was not popular with those who preferred the old ways. And thus they reviled him, and sought to cast Him out, calling Him a devil. And they sat smugly in their judgement of, contempt for, His Teaching.

News Flash - SSDD - News Flash - SSDD - News Flash - SSDD

History repeats itself. But that's old news now ... isn't it.

It is hard for men to have honor put upon them, and not to be proud of it. But all the rulers of the earth shall die, and all their honor shall be laid in the dust. God governs the world. There is a righteous God to whom we may go, and on whom we may depend. This also has respect to the kingdom of the Messiah. Considering the state of affairs in the world, we have need to pray that the Lord Jesus would speedily rule over all nations, in truth, righteousness, and peace.

[AndrewX]

Yes, I can dig it, earl ... it's just the dire heresy of separateness which I think needs to come to an end. We cannot rush this process, even if we wanted. And I don't suggest that the distinction between mankind and the Godhead is an arbitrary, or non-existent one ... from our point of view.

What bears mentioning, however - and I chose to do it as I have often seen it done here before - is that Christ Himself, in referencing, even Fulfilling, the Law ... taught us much about our Relationship To, and WITH, Deity. I do not say that He abolished the differences and distinctions, but He did say a couple of things worth repeating:

"I and the Father are ONE."

and

"No one comes to the Father except by [via] me."

A cursory examination might suggest that these statements are unreconcilable, or contradictory. A deeper look yields insight into the nature of our Greater Being which methinks it's easier to overlook in favor of an outdated, now harmful model.

So long as we maintain that our existence is fundamentally separate, one from another, Humanity from the planet, the planet from its Creator(s), and the Creator(s) from Humanity ... we will remain STUCK.

I can't unstuck anyone. What's more, lotsa folks don't like the notion that God "stuck us" to begin with! It feels more like hurt if we try to see it that way. After all, why would a loving God let us "fall?"

Far, far easier to maintain the myth, the spin, which holds that erring, sinning Humanity disobeyed, and was cast out ...

Earl, I think there is harm in trying to cling - to this outmoded, outworn, separative, and dumbed-down model. One form of the psychological harm that we experience is an unhealthy collective self-esteem. People spend lifetimes trying to scoot out from under the karma of the theologians' wrathful-god complex. And this really predates Christianity by aeons!

This thread is about `The Secret.' And the idea that we can find a quick-fix, easy-out, everybody's-happy panacea to all our religious ills, or problems in life, is just plain poppycock. That's what I can get from the thread title. And I certainly agree that we cannot reduce the workings of God's Universe into a simple, Freudian wish-life ... as if it was the id, or ego part of our psyches that really drives things anyway! [Okay, drives, yes - directs, no.]

But as the discussion on another thread on The Secret seemed to reveal, things really aren't that complicated, after all. Not if we accept that there are Law(s) which govern the world we live in ... and seek to Cooperate with It/Them. I see no fundamental discrepancy between this, and the discussion that unfolds in The Secret (and related films/books) ... and the idea of spiritual discipline and piousness - righteousness, perhaps - as discussed by even the most "fundamental" (or conservative) of Christians, even the Biblical literalists.

What I highlight regarding Christ's teaching is the fact that the Divine Potential is within us. The Secret does not maintain that we have already reached, or attained, to this perfection. Even Christ Jesus had not yet so attained, when He began his earthly ministry ... or otherwise quite a few of the Biblical episodes would require serious re-evaluation.

If Perfection is a sliding scale, rather than a static limbo, or spiritual WALL - the veritable dead-end which our imagination is forced to conjure up if we invoke the idea of "ultimate end-goals" ... then just think: We may already be perfect, by some standard or another! [Perhaps materially, in some very simple fashion. Note: the body breathes, and "lives" automatically. WE do not really control this, unless we are a yogin.]

But again, `The Secret' does not maintain this, even if, in typical New Age fascination, the lines are blurred. Rather, the message is: We have this power. And many a Christian may not like it, but frankly, that's tough.

We have it BECAUSE GOD IS. And we don't have to ask permission. We don't have to ask JESUS. And we darn sure don't have to ask ANYONE's permission to USE IT.

But before we invoke that Greatest of the Aspects of which we've been taught a little ... should we not remember another? LOVE ... is supposedly - the SOURCE, even of all that we understand by the term Divine Will. And if, stumbling in the darkness, we blindly invoke power - whether that of jesus, or any saviour or prophet ... then WOE to us, if we fail to condition what we have invoked with LOVE.

CAN you invoke the very Power of God, even in JESUS' name, without also tapping the Love aspect? Why complicate it? For Christians, I suppose this isn't an issue.

For those who have no interest at all in the Christian frame of reference, save for how to meet fellow Humanity regardless of religious choice ... the question of how to bridge Power, to the illumined, and awakening minds men ... can ONLY be answered by an application of what we call LOVE.

And THIS - Love - is governed by the Law of Attraction. For an esotericist, this is the most fundamental Law of our System. And only because of this, can we say, God is Love.

Perhaps my Biblical references to Psalms and John are hitting a bit below the belt. After all, I feel pretty comfortable with my current understanding of what was being indicated. I see your reminder as a useful course correction, earl. And yours too, Pattimax. Thanks for those.


I would quote from St. Paul, since I think he states in fairly clear terms that our spiritual growth is ongoing. None of us here has yet fully arrived, but we do know that there is a Way. As Paul puts it, in I Cor 3:1-9:

KJV: And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

KJV: I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able

KJV: For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

KJV: For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

KJV: Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

KJV: I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

KJV: So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

KJV: Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

KJV: For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

And this, clearly as can be, is what I hear when I read, or watch, `The Secret,' even as I hear it and understand it when I read the Bible, and listen to St. Paul.

[Faithfulservant]

I was wondering where Hyde was.. he's baaack lol

Psalm 82

1 A Psalm of Asaph. God stands in the congregation of the mighty; He judges among the gods. 2 How long will you judge unjustly, And show partiality to the wicked? Selah 3 Defend the poor and fatherless; Do justice to the afflicted and needy. 4 Deliver the poor and needy; Free them from the hand of the wicked. 5 They do not know, nor do they understand; They walk about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are unstable. 6 I said, "You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High. 7 But you shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes." 8 Arise, O God, judge the earth; For You shall inherit all nations

There is one God. God is addressing the sin of pride.. this is why satan fell. Jesus is calling them hypocrites and quoting this psalm in His scolding of their folly.

Please do not shout at me.. and please try to shield us a bit from your hate towards bible believing Christians.. it feels like a personal attack.. You make it very hard to have a rational conversation with you so I will end it with this.

[earl]

Well love is the ultimate "law of attraction," or perhaps better to say "law of connection" as in Love 2 or more superficially unrelated or even superficially irreconcilable things are knitted together in "whose ever name." As Rainier Marie Rilke said long ago you even need to "love" the questions. earl

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by AndrewX

Damn that infernal Bible book - Satan just makes it get the better of you every time!!!


... squirm squirm squirm squirm squirm squirm squirm squirm squirm squirm

Now say you, or say you not (some of you), that the Bible is the unequivocal "Word of God?" If you say this, then you must reconcile the PLURALITY of the word "GODS," found both in the New Testament and in the Old Testament, against your own declaration, and insistence, that "man is not a god."

Which is it? You can't have it both ways. And your own Bible says Man IS A GOD. The word is PLURAL. Not only Christ Jesus, but "YE" are said to be "GODS."

Gee, I do wish the Christians would READ THEIR OWN BIBLES once in awhile, and stop trying to have things both ways. Either you are wretched, miserable, no-good, worthless, scum-sucking sinners ... OR YOU ARE GODS. Please make up your mind (singular).

Is my intelligence Godlike? Hell no. But I will say this. I can see the wiggling and wriggling going on here. And it is not I who am twisting or changing around the Biblical teaching. My apologies that Jesus' words, and those of the Psalmists before him, are not convenient in this case to support the beliefs at hand.


Indeed, The Secret tried to make its appearance 2100 years ago. And its Revealer was crucified then in reward. No, it was not popular with those who preferred the old ways. And thus they reviled him, and sought to cast Him out, calling Him a devil. And they sat smugly in their judgement of, contempt for, His Teaching.

News Flash - SSDD - News Flash - SSDD - News Flash - SSDD

History repeats itself. But that's old news now ... isn't it.

Andrew, what are you doing? Speaking your mind on an issue is fine, however your use of particular language and apparent "scorn" towards others who do not think like you, is not fine. Belittling traditional Christian thought is not cool.

If esoteric thought is what you want to concentrate on, there is a forum for it.

Let's chill a little eh?

v/r

Joshua

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Belittling traditional Christian thought is not cool.

Belittling anyone, even Biblical literalism, is not cool. Agreed. Nor scorn, so yes, I'll chill. Not even the place for it, I get you.

But I do have a question ... for Blazn, really. If this is no more than the Amen Corner, then why the posts on things like `The Secret?' Why not just post Bible quotes all day, and stick to what you know? Why even broach a topic like The Secret, if it's going to be done where there's no hope of coming to terms?


Perhaps it was my reactionism that capsized the vessel. I see this plain as day. All seemed to be going well ... till a couple of posts that rustled my feathers. I believe the boys from Jethro Tull said it best:

Jump up, look around,
find yourself some fun,
no sense in sitting there hating everyone.
No man's an island and his castle isn't home,
the nest is for nothing when the bird has flown.

Ah, this golden hen. I can't get her to sit for anything!

Mr. Hyde, ha ha. good one

And some call me ...

~andrew