The significance of "belief"

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by MattWolf

I was wrestling with this issue once upon a time. I had a dream and in it a voice said to me "Beliefs are monsters all their own." This clarified the point I was looking for. A belief is sort of a necessary evil because in the physical world there are many things we cannot know. While we hold a belief, it is important to understand we do so at a cost. Each belief consumes and absorbs other mental material, it requires space, and produces waste. It is like keeping a pet. The more significant a belief, the greater the resources it needs to stay alive. For example, I am a staunch Theist. As a result, that belief roams freely in my mind and destroys what it may to keep itself alive. I'm quite unwilling to see it expire.

In simple terms, if you put a very new, fledgling idea in the same room with a very strongly held belief, who do you think will survive a conflict between them? Such is the nature behind the responses you get from others with your new ideas.

It is believed by many (and I am one) that a person should hold very few strong beliefs and keep everything else loose & adapative. A rigid mind full of Tasmanian Devils isn't likely to learn new things very easily. On the other hand, there is a reason people give a lot of care and attention to strong beliefs, and it might be useful for you to understand fully before thinking them unworthy of the effort.

Well, I must say, I rarely see this level of self-awareness, thank you for a refreshing reply!

Peace

Mark

[Thomas]

This Sunday's reading (RC Mass) was topical to this discussion:

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." (Romans 12"2)

'Being conformed to this world' is a life without belief, the mind (and the self) assumes the shape in which it finds itself, without question, as water assumes the shape of the recaptacle in which it is contained. This is the person of no belief, or one who is open to everything, and thus prey to whatever novelty comes along. A Magpie.

'but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,' means not simply believing in something, but aligning one's being according to what one believes. This requires a degree of discrimination, and thus self-determination. An eagle.

Should we then distinguish between 'belief' and 'will'?

Many people believe that smoking is injurious to health, yet continue to smoke, not because they don't believe they are harming themselves, but they lack the willpower to stop. They kid themselves into believing that it won't happen to them, because actually they 'enjoy' smoking more than the 'enjoy' the discomfort of giving it up.

Lukewarm beliefs will only ever produce lukewarm results, so the question is no what or whether one believes, but what or whether one does anything about what one believes. As Christ said, "these people honour me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me."

Thomas

[Paladin]

Very insightful Thomas. I think there is a big difference between belief and will. Schopenhauer believed that will was all there was,and that it was the only force worth considering. Others including the late Ernest Holmes taught that will could only be a directing force, and further that it was the power of God acting through a law of mind that brought about changes. This coincides with what you say about smoking. Will power alone never really brought about changes that are needed to overcome an addiction. Those of us who have used the twelve steps to deal with severe addiction to drugs, alchohol and even smoking know that willpower never worked for us, but it did point us in the right direction. What the Christians call "Grace" did. Dr. Gerald May author of Addiction and Grace showed how this works using a scientific model.


As to belief? Joseph Campbel in Hero with a Thousand Faces says that "the condition of those who have neither an inner call nor an outer doctrine is truly desperate"

Now, what does this mean? I believe that those who have neither belief in the form of an inner call to search for their truth or a religion of sorts to practice fall prey to existential angst. While this may come in the form of a Dark Night of soul as St. John taught, a prolonged despair can only lead to destructive thought, and behavior.

Peace

Mark

[Tariki]

Thank you to everyone for their contribution to this topic.

There does seem to me to be a difference between a faith/trust/belief that ultimate reality - however conceived - is in some sense "compassionate/loving".................and those other beliefs that become more specific.......(for instance, that "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us full of grace and truth"..............or that "Christ/Jesus will come again in the clouds to gather the elect to himself"...........

It does seem to me that trust in the compassionate nature of ultimate reality is all that is strictly necessary for the mind/heart to open.........and remain open to experience, wherever it may lead. Beyond this, belief can divide and bring conflict between people.............create unnecessary complications.

Maybe I need some work myself on uncovering the exact difference between "belief" - as such - and "opinion". An ancient Buddhist master has said..........."if you wish to know the truth, only cease to cherish opinions" This indicates that conditioning as "opinion" can cloud our experience of reality - distort reality according to the dictates of our "self".....an untransformed self, seeking only confirmation to remain secure and untroubled.

Someone has mentioned St John of the Cross, and the dark night of the soul............One of my own favorite quotes from St John of the Cross is "If you wish to be sure of the road you tread on, then close your eyes and walk in the dark". It does seem to me that there are various ways that "belief" can hinder the stripping of the self that certain paths of spirituality call for. The self strives to keep control and determine its own destiny........hindering the true call of grace. ( It just popped into my head, the words of that ancient "mystic" Mick Jagger........"You don't always get what you want, but sometimes you get what you need". There is great truth in these words!)

And Eckhart............"Nothing that knowledge can grasp or desire can want is God. Where knowledge and desire end, there is darkness. And there God shines"

In terms of transformation, I remain ambivalent towards "beliefs"........once again, this is my own experience.

Thanks again

Derek