The single, unifying religion

Awaiting_the_fifth · 07-28-2005, 10:57 PM

Islam tells us that Moses, Jesus and Mohammed are all messengers from the same God. I can accept that, they all have similar messages, only one God, worship him, etc. (sorry for the over simplification, no offense intended)

But I have been thinking recently about the Baha'i belief that all great religious figures are messengers from the same God. This claim is more or less reflected by the Maitreya Mission, with the individual who calls himself Maitreya actually going so far as to claim that he IS all of the prophets in one. This claim I do not understand.

The first example that creeps into mind is that of Buddha. The last Buddha made it clear to his followers that there was no single creator God, well, OK that isnt all that clear, but it is definately implied. Buddha's teachings certainly undermine the position of Gods as the supreme beings because a Buddha is greater. Therefore how can the Buddha be a prophet from God?

I would appreciate it if any Baha'i's could explain this and I would especially like to hear from anyone who believes the teachings of the Maitreya Mission. Also, if there are any other faiths with similar beliefs, please feel free to share.

Vajradhara · 07-29-2005, 02:56 PM

this is, in essence, the majority of our conversation in this thread:

http://www.comparative-religion.com/...read.php?t=825

you'll note that we have quite a bit of discourse here concerning this very thing

metta,

~v

arthra · 07-31-2005, 04:14 AM

Awaiting the fifth wrote:

But I have been thinking recently about the Baha'i belief that all great religious figures are messengers from the same God. This claim is more or less reflected by the Maitreya Mission, with the individual who calls himself Maitreya actually going so far as to claim that he IS all of the prophets in one. This claim I do not understand.

The first example that creeps into mind is that of Buddha. The last Buddha made it clear to his followers that there was no single creator God, well, OK that isnt all that clear, but it is definately implied. Buddha's teachings certainly undermine the position of Gods as the supreme beings because a Buddha is greater. Therefore how can the Buddha be a prophet from God?

I would appreciate it if any Baha'i's could explain this and I would especially like to hear from anyone who believes the teachings of the Maitreya Mission. Also, if there are any other faiths with similar beliefs, please feel free to share.

My reply:

Awaiting, I was responding to you on the Baha'i thread but on reading this thought this also might be helpful:

One of the concepts of the Baha'i Faith is the "Manifestation of the Sun of Truth", this concept means that a Manifestation appears when the needs arise in the contingent world. This Manifestation is like a Pure Mirror that perfectly reflects the attributes of the Sun of Truth or "God" to humanity and hence raises the level of civility and community. One of the purposes is to carry forward an ever advancing civilization.

Another aspect of the Manifestation of the Sun of Truth is that He is a Pure Mirror innately without effort or any work and from birth... The stories and legends of the Buddha tell of His having innate knowledge without learning it from another and I believe if you consider the miracles of His birth and early life there are signs and indications of this innate knowledge at least symbolically.

Our concept of the Manifestation is in my view somewhat similar to that of an Enlightened One or Buddha. That there have been many Buddhas is also simialr to the Baha'i concept of Manifestations. The universe blossoms with Manifestations.

Here is an excerpt from Baha'u'llah regarding the concept of the Manifestation:

"Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth is a direct evidence of the revelation within it of the attributes and names of God ... To a supreme degree is this true of man, who, among all created things, ... hath been singled out for the glory of such distinction. For in him are potentially revealed all the attributes and names of God to a degree that no other created being hath excelled or surpassed.... And of all men, the most accomplished, the most distinguished, and the most excellent are the Manifestations of the Sun of Truth. Nay, all else besides these Manifestations, live by the operation of their Will, and move and have their being through the outpourings of their grace."

- Gleanings, pp. 177-79.

[The] Manifestations of God have each a twofold station. One is the station of pure abstraction and essential unity. In this respect, if thou callest them all by one name, and dost ascribe to them the same attributes, thou hast not erred from the truth....

The other station is the station of distinction, and pertaineth to the world of creation, and to the limitations thereof. In this respect, each Manifestation of God hath a distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a predestined revelation, and specially designated limitations. Each one of them is known by a different name, is characterized by a special attribute, fulfills a definite mission...

Viewed in the light of their second station ... they manifest absolute servitude, utter destitution, and complete self-effacement. Even as He saith: “I am the servant of God. I am but a man like you.”...

Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: “I am God,” He, verily, speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto. For ... through their Revelation, their attributes and names, the Revelation of God, His names and His attributes, are made manifest in the world.... And were any of them to voice the utterance, “I am the Messenger of God,” He, also, speaketh the truth, the indubitable truth.... Viewed in this light, they are all but Messengers of that ideal King, that unchangeable Essence.... And were they to say, “We are the Servants of God,” this also is a manifest and indisputable fact. For they have been made manifest in the uttermost state of servitude, a servitude the like of which no man can possibly attain....

- Gleanings, p. 56

The following essay by Julio Savi I think would also be helpful to read:

http://bahai-library.com/books/quest/quest.06.html

- Art

chsharif · 08-10-2005, 09:09 AM

My Dear "Awaiting the fifth"
Dear Sir
I have read your Post titled"The single unifying religion".
Your observation is correct that Islam tells us that Moses,Jesus and Mohammad are all messengers from the same God.
You have also enquired if there are any other faiths with similiar bliefs?
I want to inform you that Ahmadis believe that not only the above prophets (Moses,Jesus and Mohammad) but Krishna (in India),Zartushtra(in Iran) and Budha are are also true prophets of God.They all received messages from God,it is however ,another story that their messages could not be preserved and with the passage of time got changed but there is no doubt that they were all truthful persons.Mirza Ghulam Ahmad ,the founder Leader of the Ahmadis (a Muslim sect) has also told that as mentioned in Quran,God sent his messengers to every nation/country/region of the world and hence whereever we find that there had been a noble person claiming that he had received revelation from God that must be believed, only if he says that there is only one God and we must obey him.
Thanks
chsharif

Awaiting_the_fifth · 08-10-2005, 10:44 AM

Hi Chsharif, thanks for the reply

Quote:

Originally Posted by chsharif

Ahmadis believe that not only the above prophets (Moses,Jesus and Mohammad) but Krishna (in India),Zartushtra(in Iran) and Budha are are also true prophets of God.

as mentioned in Quran,God sent his messengers to every nation/country/region of the world and hence whereever we find that there had been a noble person claiming that he had received revelation from God that must be believed, only if he says that there is only one God and we must obey him.
Thanks
chsharif

You say that Buddha is a messenger from God and also that you believe any noble person who claims to have recieved revelation from God, only if he says that there is only one God and we must obey him.

But Buddha never said that there was only one God, nor did he claim to have recieved insight from God, in fact he regularly taught Gods because he was greater than them. How can you then believe that he was a messenger from God?

Quahom1 · 08-11-2005, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

Hi Chsharif, thanks for the reply

You say that Buddha is a messenger from God and also that you believe any noble person who claims to have recieved revelation from God, only if he says that there is only one God and we must obey him.

But Buddha never said that there was only one God, nor did he claim to have recieved insight from God, in fact he regularly taught Gods because he was greater than them. How can you then believe that he was a messenger from God?

Perhaps in this case Buddha was referring to "gods" (men/women) who thought they were of power and might, demigogues if you will? So yes, it was true that he taught them (probably resulting in many of us being here today).

But did not Buddha also say he was searching for the light? (read that somewhere but...)

v/r

Q

Awaiting_the_fifth · 08-12-2005, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

But did not Buddha also say he was searching for the light?

Although I'm not sure of the context of your quote, I am certain that Buddha was not seeking anything. An intrinsic part of the state of enlightenment is the end of seeking.

That's why it's so damn hard to seek it.

satay · 08-12-2005, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Perhaps in this case Buddha was referring to "gods" (men/women) who thought they were of power and might, demigogues if you will? So yes, it was true that he taught them (probably resulting in many of us being here today).

But did not Buddha also say he was searching for the light? (read that somewhere but...)

v/r

Q

No, Buddha never referred to any God or Gods. He said, "Be Aware".

What is this "Be Aware"? Be Aware of your "self". What is this "self"? This "self" is your conciousness...your being...in essence it is what makes you "you".

Buddha never said that he was searching for light...well, at least I am not aware if he said that...in fact he wasn't searching...he was only experiencing. What is this experience? This experience is the enlightenment of your "self". This is state where all the gibbrish of mind, all the nonsense that goes on in our mind is quiet and there is only silence. How to get this silence? By being aware! By watching...not by controlling...by watching...every thought, every breath...every little emotion...be a watcher...Be Aware!

satay

Awaiting_the_fifth · 08-13-2005, 11:08 AM

I cant believe you just used the word "self" that many times in describing the state of enlightenment.

There is no self.

Quahom1 · 08-13-2005, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satay

No, Buddha never referred to any God or Gods. He said, "Be Aware".

What is this "Be Aware"? Be Aware of your "self". What is this "self"? This "self" is your conciousness...your being...in essence it is what makes you "you".

Buddha never said that he was searching for light...well, at least I am not aware if he said that...in fact he wasn't searching...he was only experiencing. What is this experience? This experience is the enlightenment of your "self". This is state where all the gibbrish of mind, all the nonsense that goes on in our mind is quiet and there is only silence. How to get this silence? By being aware! By watching...not by controlling...by watching...every thought, every breath...every little emotion...be a watcher...Be Aware!

satay

Wow, I could never be a Buddhist. I like the "music and rythmn" in my mind. I'd go nuts if all was silent. I also strongly believe in "self". I like the "individual" in each of us. I enjoy the uniqueness of "The One", and meeting the uniqueness of "The other One". Sometimes, it just clicks and the two together can become a different kind of "One".

But I digress.

v/r

Q

satay · 08-13-2005, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

I cant believe you just used the word "self" that many times in describing the state of enlightenment.

There is no self.

Dang!

No, of course not in the buddhist context. Isn't there consciousness ?

satay

FORMER · 08-20-2005, 06:06 AM

Not to quote one religion but "LET US CREAT MAN IN OUR OWN IMAGE AFTER OUR OWN LIKENESS" Us and Our?

Wakiza · 08-20-2005, 11:38 PM

whaaaa?????

InLove · 08-21-2005, 05:31 AM

Hi, and Peace, Everyone,

Hope I am not "butting in" here too much.

If the question is open to anyone, then I guess I will add my thought.

It may be possible for people to unite in one religion--but I kind of doubt it.

I honestly believe that the idea that holds more promise is that people may unite in the Truth. I believe that we find that Truth in Love. Love for one another.

I do not think that we can do this on our own. I do think there are individuals who can find this and practice it , and frankly, I believe that these individuals have existed throughout the ages.

I also believe that many people will be surprised at this unity in Love. And it will take a while for everyone to understand.

But, no--the answer is not to be found in religion, but in the heart. Some might say that my belief is a religion in itself, and this would be close to The Truth, but Truth tells me that Love, and not religion, is the answer.

Religious practices may help us understand the Truth of Love, but religion alone can do nothing.

Anyway, this is what I believe. I posted this because I thought it might be relevent to the conversation.

InPeace,
InLove

taijasi · 08-21-2005, 08:53 AM

Seems like ... as long as there is Love in religion, we're okay, but as soon as we have Religion without Love ... it makes me shudder!

~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
"By their fruits, ye shall know them ... "
"Nasti paro dharma"
OM