The theories of the Atonement of Christ

Dondi · 02-12-2007, 04:32 PM

What theory of the atonement of Christ do you subscribe to, if any? An explanation of the theories are in the link below.

Please explain what you believe and why.

Source: Theopedia - Atonement of Christ

Prober · 02-12-2007, 04:59 PM

Thanks for this thread, Dondi!

I had no idea that there were different ideas about it. I believe the Penal - substitution one.

It will be interesting and informative to see where others land.

What do you believe?

earl · 02-12-2007, 07:57 PM

I voted "some other theory." Now the what. My current speculation based some ..er exeriences...requires a metaphor. If you imagine a tube, channel, etc. of Divinity/Light with a window on 1 end and at the other end the absolute ineffableness of God, then I see Jesus as the human form of that window and every gesture, word, etc. by him was a clear opening through that channel straight to the Father. In the Hindu traditions they speak of shaktiput-the ability of some very realized spiritual masters to impart an enourmous spiritual energy-a jumpstart-to a follower by a word or a glance. Contemporary describers of the receipt of this speak of an initial over-whelming rush of that energy, momentarily disorienting before enlightening. My suspicion was that being in his presence often led to such an experience as that full "light" showed through. I believe his presence on Earth was to in every word and gesture teach others to find that opening, (in life as well as death), and that often the teaching came as much by "shaktiput" as by word or deed. I believe he was demonstrating how that channel opened from this life through death to beyond. He in my opinion did not come to attone per se. But his death and subsequent appearance were all gestures of that continuity across life and death, space and time. On that shaktiput thing-while his being put to death has often been portrayed as due to many factors including the political, the thing about "shaktiput" energies is that for those unready to accept the "boost" they can be fear-inducing and in cases of extreme fear, we kill what we fear. I tend to think that was one of the reasons for his death. Well that's enough of my strangeness for now.

earl

Silas · 02-12-2007, 08:26 PM

My limited understanding of Jesus' atoning scarifice include:

- Jesus satisfying the righteous wrath of God on my behalf. There is now, therefore, no condemnation for me. The curse of the laws are lifted and I am free to obey God (his way) and be ae slave to Him.

- He purchased my faith. His death serves as a means by which God was pleased to give me eyes to see, ears to hear, and a heart to believe the "foolish" gospel.

- He gave me His righteousness by imputation. God sees me in Christ and his perfect life is credited to my account.

Dondi · 02-12-2007, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

My limited understanding of Jesus' atoning scarifice include:

- Jesus satisfying the righteous wrath of God on my behalf. There is now, therefore, no condemnation for me. The curse of the laws are lifted and I am free to obey God (his way) and be ae slave to Him.

- He purchased my faith. His death serves as a means by which God was pleased to give me eyes to see, ears to hear, and a heart to believe the "foolish" gospel.

- He gave me His righteousness by imputation. God sees me in Christ and his perfect life is credited to my account.

So which one did you vote for, Silas?

Silas · 02-13-2007, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

So which one did you vote for, Silas?

I dont want to make the mistake and pick the wrong one, so I agree with which ever one that says what I said.

Zagreus · 02-13-2007, 02:33 AM

Earl, although I chose the Moral-Example Theory, I like your explanation and could not say it better ... so thank you for that!

Atonement, for me, is a meaningless word in the context of traditional or orthodox Christianity. If we look at the etymology of this word (you know, the little creatures that make it up

), it means `to become AT ONE with something, or In Harmony with something.'

So, what Christ's At-One-Ment accomplished, imo, was the Divine and perfect illustration of how we all can do this, how we can live in harmony with God's Plan. He showed us what it might look like when such attunement has been achieved. For every person who so attunes or at-one's him or herself, the Way becomes a little clearer, and that Light (a la earl's explanation) shines a little brighter for us all.

The signficance of Christ's own At-One-Ment 2000 years ago takes on an added significance, imo, because of the very Nature - Divine Nature - of what it is that Christ embodied and expressed for us. I believe that this Light is more than just an Illuminator, or Inspirer, it is also pure, unconditional Love ... which is something we have never experienced on this planet, to this degree, so fully, so perfectly, and so directly, prior to Christ's example.

The At-One-ment, then, was much more than just one man with his Creator, and it has a significance for each & every one of us. We all share a common heritage and inheritance, as well as a common destiny. The greatest Love of all is that which would prompt us to lay down our very life for our friends ... or even to forsake the 90 & 9 for the 1 lost sheep.

Christ shows us what it means to live cooperatively, 100% for the benefit of others. For only thus may we become Divinely attuned, live in harmony, and become At-One'd with God's Plan for all mankind.

China Cat Sunflower · 02-13-2007, 03:03 AM

I don't know. I don't know what Jesus' death accomplished aside from consolidating his mythos, or completing a personal initiation. It's legacy surely changed the course of history, but it's hard to see any redemptive value since it's impossible to know if things would have been better or worse had Christianity not arisen.

Chris

Tariki · 02-13-2007, 01:57 PM

During my "liberal Christian" days I often used to dip into the New testament commentaries of William Barclay. They seem written for "simple folk", which therfeore suited me down to the ground - in the past I have been "flamed" for "sentimentality"!! Anyway, I have always remembered a story Barclay told concerning this question. (I think he was in fact re-telling an auto-biographical piece by another writer) It concerned a young boy who had a view of his father as being stern and unyielding, based I suppose upon a lot of suppositions and incidents during his young life. Well, each week, the father would take his son to the local church. Apparently, on one particular sunday, the day was very hot and the sermon was very long! The young lad feared he would fall asleep and therefore receive the weight of his father's ire. He kept feeling his head nodding forward, gathered himself, strained to keep his eyes open............as the sermon droned on and on. Finally he felt his head slip forward once more - and immediately sensed the weight of his father's hand as it rose to strike him awake. Instead, the arm of his father reached around him, encouraging him to nestle his head against his father's shoulder. In that moment, the young lad said, he came to "know" his father for the first time.

I think Jesus helps us to "know" the "father" for the first time. Quite what "theory" this comes under I have no idea - I have not voted.

And I did mention this in another post - when I was unable to find this thread. I always think of the words of Jesus to the Pharasees...."Go and learn what this means......I will have mercy and not sacrifice". Always worth pondering when considering the "atonement".............

Thomas · 02-15-2007, 03:37 PM

Well, it's a Mystery ...

"Because in him, it hath well pleased the Father that all fulness (pleroma) should dwell; and through him to reconcile all things unto himself, making peace through the blood of his cross, both as to the things that are on earth, and the things that are in heaven."
Colossians 1:19-20

"That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love (agape), May be able to comprehend with all saints what [is] the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love (agape) of Christ, which passeth knowledge (gnosis), that ye might be filled with all the fulness (pleroma) of God."
Ephesians 3:17-19

Thomas

lunamoth · 02-15-2007, 03:53 PM

Spot on again, Thomas.

Dor · 02-15-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

I dont want to make the mistake and pick the wrong one, so I agree with which ever one that says what I said.

I pretty much agree with what Silas says most of the time.
I believe he was voting for Penal substitution......I definately did.

wil · 02-15-2007, 07:52 PM

Namaste all,

I clicked moral influence.

Great thoughts earl and zag, I see it mostly as one livings one life by example and influencing others.

flowperson · 02-15-2007, 10:09 PM

Namaste wil

At the risk of being labelled that most abhorrent of contemporary animals, "dittohead" ...ditto.

flow....

Dondi · 02-16-2007, 12:47 PM

I voted a combination of theories. I believe in the redemptive work of Jesus on the Cross, for there has to be a way for sinful man to be reconciled back to God. That Christ torn down the veil that separates us from a Holy God, lest we depair when we face God and proclaim, like Isaiah, that we are people with unclean lips (or anything else that is unclean - our righteousness is as filthy rags). I think it is important to realize that we have no boast before God, lest our pride convince us that we are righteous before God, as if our efforts alone are what brings us to Him. This puts us all on the same playing field, so that no one can claim to be holier than thou. This salvation through Christ, since it levels the playing field, brings unity as brothers and sisters, for our focus is on God rather than ourselves.

Beyond the work of the Cross, there is another level of atonement that speaks to us individually. For Christ didn't come merely to save us, but to conform us into His image. And I would put forth that this, rather than salvation, is the primary goal of God for us. The atonement, or at-one-ment as another pointed out, is the process of living according to His will in the power of the Spirit, who is the change agent in our lives to lift us toward that end. So important is this that salvation is almost secondary. The grace God provides through Christ is meant to cover our foul-ups, to put it nicely. though we focus on our sins, and how God will forgive us, we should be aware that God is more concerned about our character. God can forgive any sin, but what use is it to forgive sin if there isn't any change in the sinner. We can go week to week to confession or go to God ourselves for forgiveness, but if you think that God is please with our confessing the same sins over and over, you've missed the point completely. "To obey is better than sacrifice."

Access to God means discovering God's love, where before we strain with our sins and never find peace. Instead of straining with sin, why not allow God's love to change you so that the burden of obedience to Him is light and is a delight.