The Trinity, from the JW view. - Page 11

BlaznFattyz · 03-21-2008, 07:20 PM

so for jw's is there is one God (the Father) and one god-like man (Jesus) or two Gods who save, judge, forgive, and are unchanging and eternal? who forgives your sins?

Thomas · 03-21-2008, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

i am glad to say that Jehovahs witnesses worship in spirit and truth, and dont need any visible symbols to bow down too.

They worship according to the word of your founders, your tradition, not God's Word.

By your own example:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

I and the Father are one.
Or, "at unity." Lit., "one (thing)." Gr., hen, neuter, to show oneness in cooperation. JOHN 10:30.

No. or "at unity" is not implied by the Greek, that's entirely your own insertion, to make your own doctrine ... it's not there, Mee.

John 10:30:
ego (I) kai (and) pater (father) esmen (are) heis (one)
the verb esmen is the first person plusal of eimi, to be.

So 'at unity' is an invention, inserted into the text. It's not even there in your own interlinear translation.

This is your own tradition, it's not in Scripture.

Revelations 22:18:
"If any man shall add to these things, God shall add unto him the plagues written in this book."

+++

And why pagan symbols on the covers of your books?

And where is/are those church/es you were talking about, Mee?

Thomas

Quahom1 · 03-21-2008, 11:12 PM

[quote=mee;142894]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Obviously the Trinity from a JW's perspective does not exist...

or even , the trinity is not inline with the bible, and Jehovahs witnesses are very focused on being inline with the bible .

Actually it is quite in line with the Bible.

However, it is mute to explain to deaf ears, anything.

Quahom1 · 03-21-2008, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

so for jw's is there is one God (the Father) and one god-like man (Jesus) or two Gods who save, judge, forgive, and are unchanging and eternal? who forgives your sins?

Good point, considering only God can forgive sins, and God the Father can not look upon sin. That only leaves one other aspect of God that can...Jesus the Son of God. But then that must mean He is God, not just a God-like man...

mee · 03-22-2008, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas

They worship according to the word of your founders, your tradition, not God's Word.

Thomas

the bible is the aurthority for Jehovahs witnesses , and all of their beliefs are based on good bible based teachings and it is verrrrry goooood

mee · 03-22-2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas

No. or "at unity" is not implied by the Greek, that's entirely your own insertion, to make your own doctrine ... it's not there, Mee.
h

Thomas

getting back to the original meanings and understanding of the original inspired word of God is what it is all . and it is verrrry goooood

Jesus certainly is in unity with his father ,just as his followers are in unity also.
Jesus and his Father are "one" in that Jesus is in full harmony with his Father.

And he prayed that all his followers might likewise be in harmony with his Father, with Jesus and with one another.

in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth. John 17;21

Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. john 17;22

mee · 03-22-2008, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas

Revelations 22:18:
"If any man shall add to these things, God shall add unto him the plagues written in this book."

Thomas

yes the book of Revelation is inspired of God.

Who would dare change a word of what God himself has spoken and transmitted through the one who is now the reigning King, Jesus Christ?

Certainly, such a person would deserve to lose out in the quest for life and suffer the plagues that must come upon Babylon the Great and upon the whole world.

Quahom1 · 03-24-2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

the bible is the aurthority for Jehovahs witnesses , and all of their beliefs are based on good bible based teachings and it is verrrrry goooood

Then of course you could and can walk away from the JW kingdom hall, any instructions the leaders have given you about conducting your life and who you associate with and go into any church to worship...After all, we all believe in Jesus as savior...right? (lol) Fat chance. You aren't even supposed to be here on CR, let alone fellowshipping with other than JWs. We're all corrupt, and you have yourself one hell of a pickle to get out of.

Ah, the beauty of knowing the truth...means one can go anywhere and worship, without concern about what the locals think or care...but some risk being shunned or outcast...now why is that? Don't sweat it, I know the answer, and so do you...

Thomas · 03-25-2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

getting back to the original meanings ...

Mee, the words 'in union' are not even in the JW Interlinear Bible Translation ... so how can you say you're not adding words into the text?

You think putting words into the mouth of Christ serves the original meaning? Surely, if that what He meant, that is what He would have said?

'In union' is no part of the verb 'to be'.

I think it is in fact 'verrrry baaaaad' to assume that Christ could not make Himself understood without your assistance. Perhaps the Father should have waited before sending His Son, so He could run everything by you first?

What if I said, "in union of one essence and one substance" ... what then?

[FONT=Arial]
in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth. John 17;21

No, 'in union' is not in that text either. More invention.

Thomas

Thomas · 03-25-2008, 12:52 PM

Here's a thing ...

The orthodox Christian can posit a Doctrine of the Trinity derived from Scripture, without having to insert words into the text and alter its meaning, rather the doctrine stems from an inspired contemplation of the Word.

The Jehovah's Witness on the other hand, not only refutes that and other doctrines that derive directly from the unmediated text, but to make their own doctrinal claims they are necessarily obliged to insert words and thus invent meanings into the text, which they then unashamedly claim as the original intended meaning.

Thomas

mee · 03-26-2008, 12:28 AM

[quote=Quahom1;143147]Then of course you could and can walk away from the JW kingdom hall, quote]

why would i want to do that , it is verrry goood

lots of good bible based instruction going on in there. and it is the best place to be if a person is after the truth of the bible . matthew 24;45-47

and there is a GREAT CROWD from all nations doing just the same as mee revelation 7;9-10 and they are all in unity of thought .MICAH 4;1-4

mee · 03-26-2008, 12:35 AM

[quote=Quahom1;143147] You aren't even supposed to be here on CR, let alone fellowshipping with other than JWs.

quote]

lol.... Jehovahs witnesses speak to people from all different religious beliefs, we meet people from all religions on our door to door work . we speak about the bible to all people .

especially about the GOODNEWS OF THE KINGDOM MATTHEW 24;14we dont like to keep it all to ourselves we like to share it with others , thats because it is so verrrry verrry gooood

DANIEL 2;44

mee · 03-26-2008, 12:39 AM

[quote=Quahom1;143147]

Ah, the beauty of knowing the truth...quote] YES INDEED

Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth JOHN 17;17

mee · 03-26-2008, 12:57 AM

YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.
(John 14:28)

"I and the Father are one." (John 10:30) But that does not mean he is God, nor does it make reference to any so-called third person of the trinity. Did Jesus not explain in chapter 17 of the Gospel of John that this means oneness, of purpose, unity? Read it in your own Bible. Can a father be the same as his son? Jesus is God’s Son. Even a child can understand that a father is greater than a son.

Jesus himself said: "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28) But clergymen have so clouded this simple truth that some Bible readers do not believe it anymore. How simple it is for truly humble persons to draw the proper conclusion about this doctrine from Jesus’ words

"I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me I speak these things. And he that sent me is with me; he did not abandon me to myself, because I always do the things pleasing to him"! (John 8:28, 29)

mee · 03-26-2008, 01:16 AM

[quote=Quahom1;143147]After all, we all believe in Jesus as savior...right? (lol) Fat chance. quote]

Interesting thought that,

many claim to do many powerful works in the name of Jesus . but are they doing what Jesus asked of them ,

"Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness. MATTHEW 7;21-23

the last thing Jesus commanded his disciples to do was this in matthew 28;19-20.
GO and make disciples teaching them everything Jesus taught.