The Trinity, from the JW view.

[mee]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

Who forgives your sins then?

if you read your bible it will be clear

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

The trinity is false and the real bible teaching is true .

No, the Trinity is a truism, but human doctrine can be false. The bible is rift with the Trinity concept, including the new testament. Funny thing about "blinders", they keep a horse from spooking, but they also keep a horse from seeing danger coming in from the side and behind.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

if you read your bible it will be clear

That answer is a non-sequiter. (no answer at all). Too bad you can't stand on merit, when questions do not fall into the realm of the Watch Tower. You bring this on yourself Mee, when you attack what others hold true, as being false according to you or your Elders' vision.

[mee]

Many persons think the trinity is a Christian teaching based on God’s Word, the Bible.

However, early Roman Catholic writers did not hesitate to admit that the trinity could not be proved by Scripture alone.

Cardinal Hosius is quoted as having said: "We believe the doctrine of a triune God, because we have received it by tradition, though not mentioned at all in Scripture." (Conf. Cathol. Fidei, Chap. XXVI) Other persons are just as frank about declaring the trinity to be of pagan origin.


Arthur Weigall, in his book The Paganism in Our Christianity, states: "Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon, and nowhere in the New Testament does the word ‘Trinity’ appear." He says the idea of a coequal trinity "was only adopted by the [Roman Catholic] Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord; and the origin of the conception is entirely pagan."

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

Many persons think the trinity is a Christian teaching based on God’s Word, the Bible.

However, early Roman Catholic writers did not hesitate to admit that the trinity could not be proved by Scripture alone.

Cardinal Hosius is quoted as having said: "We believe the doctrine of a triune God, because we have received it by tradition, though not mentioned at all in Scripture." (Conf. Cathol. Fidei, Chap. XXVI) Other persons are just as frank about declaring the trinity to be of pagan origin.


Arthur Weigall, in his book The Paganism in Our Christianity, states: "Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon, and nowhere in the New Testament does the word ‘Trinity’ appear." He says the idea of a coequal trinity "was only adopted by the [Roman Catholic] Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord; and the origin of the conception is entirely pagan."

That is an opinion of one man who questioned the very faith he was leading. He questioned God's very existence, as well. Come on mee, you can do better than that.

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by mee

if you read your bible it will be clear

I'm asking you.

[mee]

"The evidence to be collected from the Apostolic Fathers is meagre, and tantalizingly inconclusive. . . . Of a doctrine of the Trinity in the strict sense there is of course no sign."—Oxford Professor J. N. D. Kelly





"The Christian Bible, including the New Testament, has no trinitarian statements or speculations concerning a trinitary deity."—Encyclopædia Britannica




Perhaps recollection of the many triads of the surrounding polytheistic world contributed to the formation of these threefold formulae."—Theological Dictionary of the New Testament

[Quahom1]

Tell you what Mee. You can call me "Jacob". You questioned my faith that is the same as most every other "Christian" in the world, and I am not going to let go of you, until you prove the "falacy". So far, you haven't done a very good job of it. On the other hand, I'm going to show you every flaw and error in your philosophy.

I'm not a very good Christian my friend. But I am a damn good debunker and "ferret". And I hate when others are lead astray. This will be a good game, and it is a game. The stakes are extremely high. That is, the souls of 2.3 billion people who look to Jesus as the savior, redeemer and GOD.

Attempt to prove away the God head of Christ. I'm ready to prove otherwise.

v/r

Q

[mee]

The Father—Superior to the Son

Jesus taught his disciples to pray: "Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name." Our heavenly Father, whose name is Jehovah, is described in the Bible as being superior to his Son.

For example, Jehovah is "from everlasting to everlasting." But the Bible says that Jesus is "the firstborn of every creature." That Jehovah is greater than Jesus, Jesus himself taught when he said: "My Father is greater than I." (Matthew 6:9; Psalm 90:1, 2; Colossians 1:15; John 14:28, King James Version) Yet, the Trinity doctrine holds that the Father and the Son are "equally God."


The Father’s superiority over the Son, as well as the fact that the Father is a separate person, is highlighted also in the prayers of Jesus, such as the one before his execution: "Father, if you wish, remove this cup [that is, an ignominious death] from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place." (Luke 22:42) If God and Jesus are "one in essence," as the Trinity doctrine says, how could Jesus’ will, or wish, seem different from that of his Father?—Hebrews 5:7, 8; 9:24.


Furthermore, if Jehovah and Jesus were the same, how could one of them be aware of things of which the other was not? Jesus, for instance, said regarding the time of the world’s judgment: "Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father."—Mark 13:32.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

And I hate when others are lead astray.

Q

mee too

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

The Father—Superior to the Son

Jesus taught his disciples to pray: "Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name." Our heavenly Father, whose name is Jehovah, is described in the Bible as being superior to his Son.

For example, Jehovah is "from everlasting to everlasting." But the Bible says that Jesus is "the firstborn of every creature." That Jehovah is greater than Jesus, Jesus himself taught when he said: "My Father is greater than I." (Matthew 6:9; Psalm 90:1, 2; Colossians 1:15; John 14:28, King James Version) Yet, the Trinity doctrine holds that the Father and the Son are "equally God."


The Father’s superiority over the Son, as well as the fact that the Father is a separate person, is highlighted also in the prayers of Jesus, such as the one before his execution: "Father, if you wish, remove this cup [that is, an ignominious death] from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place." (Luke 22:42) If God and Jesus are "one in essence," as the Trinity doctrine says, how could Jesus’ will, or wish, seem different from that of his Father?—Hebrews 5:7, 8; 9:24.


Furthermore, if Jehovah and Jesus were the same, how could one of them be aware of things of which the other was not? Jesus, for instance, said regarding the time of the world’s judgment: "Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father."—Mark 13:32.

He did not. He never called the Father "Jehovah" He didn't even use the word "YHWH". So once again your information is in error.

Second of all Jesus put away His "God head" in order to experience first hand, what humans endure. That was the only we He could fathom us. He had to get personal, down and dirty. When He gave up His life for us, He did so knowing full well the human condition (from the inside).

Satan and his minoins may have taken human form for their own pleasure, but Jesus took on human weakness, in order to understand fully that which He created. He Loves us that much. Only God has that capacity to love mankind, enough to suffer and die on our behalf.

The Father is never superior to the Son. Indeed each father on earth prays that his son/daughter, supercede him. I do, and I love my sons beyond every other soul on earth. So your arguement is moot, since we learn how to live from our heavenly father, so we teach our children and hope they become better than us.

Third, the bible says Jesus is the word of God. Who the hell are we to argue that point? I am a "centurian". I say "do this" or "go here" and my word is carried out. My word, is me. Just as the Father's Word is Him. According to John 1 in the beginning was the "Word". The "Word" was God.

Not hard to extrapolate the fact that Jesus (the Word), is God.

I know you don't believe this, and frankly I do not care. I speak to all those reading this post. They do care.

Jesus is Lord and God of us all, and God help those who refuse to accept Him. He will have no choice but to refuse to accept you.

v/r

Q

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

mee too

Really? Then stop doing it.

[Joedjr]

Hi Wil,

Originally Posted by wil

Whoa, don't tell anybody!!
Q says 97% of Christendom is trinitarian. I have no idea. What would your take be?
Which churches, denominations have you attended that are non trinitarian?

I don't have any idea on the percent of trinitarian to non trinitarian. Google I'm sure would provide some number, hopefully before the 100th page.
The only non trinitarian church I've been to is Messianic.
BTW in my travels up and down 95, when in S.C. you can pick up a great Baha'i radio station, I like their music.

Joe

[Ahanu]

Originally Posted by Joedjr

when in S.C. you can pick up a great Baha'i radio station, I like their music.

Joe

I have never heard any mention of the Baha'i Faith on the radio. That is close to where I live. The South Carolina state line is only like an hour away.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Only God has that capacity to love mankind, enough to suffer and die on our behalf.


v/r

Q

but what does the bible say , it says this .



For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. JOHN 3;16-17