The Trinity, from the JW view.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

The Father is never superior to the Son.


v/r

Q

Would you say that Jesus always spoke the truth , ? because the following is what Jesus said in the bible .

Jesus Christ himself said, "The Father is greater than I am" and referred to the Father as his God, "the only true God." (Joh 14:28; 17:3; 20:17; Mr 15:34; Re 1:1; 3:12)


On numerous occasions Jesus expressed his inferiority and subordination to his Father. (Mt 4:9, 10; 20:23; Lu 22:41, 42; Joh 5:19; 8:42; 13:16) Even after Jesus’ ascension into heaven his apostles continued to present the same picture.—1Co 11:3; 15:20, 24-28; 1Pe 1:3; 1Jo 2:1; 4:9, 10.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Third, the bible says Jesus is the word of God.
v/r

Q

Very true.


Why called "the Word." The name (or, perhaps, title) "the Word" (Joh 1:1) apparently identifies the function that God’s firstborn Son performed after other intelligent creatures were formed.

A similar expression is found at Exodus 4:16, where Jehovah says to Moses concerning his brother Aaron: "And he must speak for you to the people; and it must occur that he will serve as a mouth to you, and you will serve as God to him." As spokesman for God’s chief representative on earth, Aaron served as "a mouth" for Moses.


Likewise with the Word, or Logos, who became Jesus Christ. Jehovah evidently used his Son to convey information and instructions to others of his family of spirit sons, even as he used that Son to deliver his message to humans on earth.

Showing that he was God’s Word, or Spokesman, Jesus said to his Jewish listeners: "What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me. If anyone desires to do His will, he will know concerning the teaching whether it is from God or I speak of my own originality."—Joh 7:16, 17; compare Joh 12:50; 18:37.

[Joedjr]

Hi Ahanu,

Originally Posted by Ahanu

I have never heard any mention of the Baha'i Faith on the radio. That is close to where I live. The South Carolina state line is only like an hour away.

I think it's towards the middle of the state. I was trying to remember exactly where, but since I really don't know the state, couldn't tell you. Do you live on the NC side or GA side. I moved to NC a year and a half ago from FL.
When I drive, and the radio is on, my change the station finger is constantly
moving so I couldn't even tell you where it is on the dial.

Joe

[mee]

"This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."—JOHN 17:3.

[Joedjr]

Hi Mee,
From your posting, You have good knowledge of the bible and post some relevant points. I'm a bit puzzled on something, as I pass the kingdom hall on sunday morning I see the parking lot is full. Since the JW seem to keep things biblical, why not the seventh day?

From the NASB: Leviticus 26:

1:'You shall not make for yourselves idols, nor shall you set up for yourselves an image or a sacred pillar, nor shall you place a figured stone in your land to bow down to it;for I am the Lord you G!d.
2:'You shall keep My sabbaths and reverence My sanctuary; I am the Lord.
3:'If you walk in My statutes and keep My commandments so as to carry them out,
4:then I shall give you rains in their season, so that the land will yield its produce and the trees of the field will bear their fruit.
5:'Indeed, your threshing will last for you until grape gathering, and grape gathering will last until sowing time. You will thus eat your food to the full and live securely in your land.
6:'I shall also grant peace in the land, so that you may lie down with no one making you tremble. I shall also eliminate harmful beasts from the land, and no sword will pass through you land.
7:'But you will chase your enemies and they will fall before you by the sword;
8:five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall before you by the sword.
9:'So I will turn toward you and make you fruitful and multiply you, and I will confirm My covenant with you.
10:'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new.
11:'Moreover, I will make My dwelling among you, and My soul will not reject you.
12:'I will also walk among you and be your G!d, and you shall be My people.
13:'I am the Lord your G!d, who brought you out of the land of Egypt so that you would not be their slaves, and I broke the bars of your yoke and made you walk erect.
14:'But if you do not obey Me and do not carry out all these commandments, ....................

Joe

[mee]

Originally Posted by Joedjr

Hi Mee,
From your posting, You have good knowledge of the bible and post some relevant points. I'm a bit puzzled on something, as I pass the kingdom hall on sunday morning I see the parking lot is full. Since the JW seem to keep things biblical, why not the seventh day?

....................

Joe

not sure what your point is are you saying we should not worship and learn about the bible on certain days ?

[Joedjr]

Hi Mee,

Originally Posted by mee

not sure what your point is are you saying we should not worship and learn about the bible on certain days ?

Do the JW keep the seventh or the first day as the sabbath?

Joe

[mee]

Originally Posted by Joedjr

Hi Mee,



Do the JW keep the seventh or the first day as the sabbath?

Joe

Since there is no evidence in the Scriptures that Christians were commanded to observe a sabbath or that it was kept during the lifetime of the apostles after Pentecost, what position should a Christian take?

He can Scripturally take the position that sabbath observance is not a Christian requirement.

This is made evident by Paul’s statement at Colossians 2:16, 17: "Let no man judge you in eating and drinking or in respect of a festival or of an observance of the new moon or of a sabbath; for those things are a shadow of the things to come, but the reality belongs to the Christ."


The law covenant with its observance of new moons and sabbaths, including the seventh-day sabbath, was like a shadow that led to and ended with Christ.

As it did not reach into the Christian Era to obligate Christians to keep it, so sabbath observance did not carry over into the Christian Era.

That is why sabbath observance is not mentioned by the Christian governing body at Jerusalem as a requirement for non-Jewish Christians, although several other things were mentioned.
The record of this is at Acts 15:19, 20. Neither here nor in later instructions to them was any mention made of sabbath observance, which certainly would have been made if it were vital for God’s approval.

[Joedjr]

Hi Mee,

Originally Posted by mee

Since there is no evidence in the Scriptures that Christians were commanded to observe a sabbath or that it was kept during the lifetime of the apostles after Pentecost, what position should a Christian take?

In acts, Paul meets on the sabbath. from the NASB Acts:13:14
But going from Perga, they arrived at Pisidian Antioch, and on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and set down.

Acts:17:2
And according to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

This is made evident by Paul’s statement at Colossians 2:16, 17: "Let no man judge you in eating and drinking or in respect of a festival or of an observance of the new moon or of a sabbath; for those things are a shadow of the things to come, but the reality belongs to the Christ."

The law covenant with its observance of new moons and sabbaths, including the seventh-day sabbath, was like a shadow that led to and ended with Christ.

I see you like to post quotes from the old testament, is there a list somewhere which tells which part of the law and prophets is or is not ended with Christ?

That is why sabbath observance is not mentioned by the Christian governing body a Jerusalem as a requirement for non-Jewish Christians, although several other things were mentioned.

The record of this is at Acts 15:19, 20. Neither here nor in later instructions to them was any mention made of sabbath observance, which certainly would have been made if it were vital for God’s approval.

Acts 15:
28:"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
29:that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."

I agree there is no Sabbath requirement for Gentiles.

Joe

[Joedjr]

Hi Ahanu,

Originally Posted by Joedjr

Hi Ahanu,
I think it's towards the middle of the state. I was trying to remember exactly where, but since I really don't know the state, couldn't tell you. Do you live on the NC side or GA side. I moved to NC a year and a half ago from FL.
When I drive, and the radio is on, my change the station finger is constantly
moving so I couldn't even tell you where it is on the dial.
Joe

Perhaps this was the radio station: WLGI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Joe

[Ahanu]

Originally Posted by Joedjr

Hi Ahanu,



Perhaps this was the radio station: WLGI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Joe

Kool. Myrtle Beach is close (). I will jot it down.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Joedjr

Hi Mee,

In acts, Paul meets on the sabbath. from the NASB Acts:13:14
But going from Perga, they arrived at Pisidian Antioch, and on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and set down.

Joe

yes,
Since there was a Jewish synagogue in Pisidian Antioch, the missionaries went there first in order to give those most familiar with God’s Word an opportunity to accept the good news.


At this point, Paul boldly announced: "From the offspring of this man [David] according to his promise God has brought to Israel a savior, Jesus."—Acts 13:17-23.

On being invited to speak, he gave a masterful talk to all those present.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Joedjr

Hi Mee,

Acts:17:2
And according to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

Joe

Where to Begin. The historian Luke reports that when the apostle Paul was in Thessalonica, he used the Scriptures, "explaining and proving by references that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead." (Acts 17:2, 3) It is noteworthy that Paul did this in a Jewish synagogue. Those to whom he was speaking recognized the Hebrew Scriptures as an authority. It was appropriate to start with something that they accepted.

and also in Acts 9;20 those hearing gave way to astonishment because as we all know , he used to be a person in great opposition to the christians .


and immediately in the synagogues he began to preach Jesus, that this One is the Son of God. But all those hearing him gave way to astonishment and would say: "Is this not the man that ravaged those in Jerusalem who call upon this name, and that had come here for this very purpose, that he might lead them bound to the chief priests?" But Saul kept on acquiring power all the more and was confounding the Jews that dwelt in Damascus as he proved logically that this is the Christ.ACTS 9;20-22

[mee]

Originally Posted by Joedjr

Acts 15:
28:"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
29:that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."

I agree there is no Sabbath requirement for Gentiles.

Joe

For all christians the sabbath is nolonger a requirement . christ is the end of it ,


Christians are not under the law covenant, because Christ fulfilled that law when he died upon the torture stake. "For Christ is the end of the Law." (Rom. 10:4)


The fact that Jesus kept the sabbath does not mean he set the example for Christians to keep it. It was necessary for him to observe it because he was born under the law covenant, and until he fulfilled it by his sacrificial death he was obliged to keep all the Law.

If Christians should keep the sabbath because he did, then they must also keep the entire Law as he did, and we know from the Scriptures that this is not required of Christians.

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by mee

For all christians the sabbath is nolonger a requirement . christ is the end of it ,


Christians are not under the law covenant, because Christ fulfilled that law when he died upon the torture stake. "For Christ is the end of the Law." (Rom. 10:4)

Then what's with the blood thing? Isn't that part of the "law covenant"? And, the Sabbath being a commandment, are all the commandments then done away with at Christ's death?

Chris