The Trinity of Christianity - Page 10

taijasi · 09-19-2006, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Maybe it is a cultural thing, but I doubt it.

I think it can also just be the individual understanding that each of us has come to. For example, for me the 3rd aspect of the Trinity is the Created Universe ... as the ultimate physical expression (or "body") of God. This portion of God could be described as Pantheistic, or Panentheistic.

The 2nd Aspect refers to Christ on Cosmic scale. Obviously, I will just shrug then, if a person insists that this manifestation could ever have been limited to one man, in one specific place or time. It does express in different degrees of perfection, however, as that scoundrel, rapscallion and general humbug of a false-apostle Paul told us

- in his letter to the Ephesians (yeah, the ones whose Mysteries he obviously understood) ... ch.4, v.13.

And that's the kind of Unity that I think we're speaking of, when a person desires to "walk with Christ." Eventually the expansion of awareness takes into its scope all men and all beings, and this is when our nice, lovely, rational minds just start to break down. We cannot claim to understand the mystery of Love and of God's Oneness (UNITY) ... through the rational mind. Some insist that it's cultural, but it doesn't take an enlightened Mahatma sitting on a mountain somewhere to feel, know and share God's Love. Not last time I checked, anyway.

We could really stop right there. Nevermind the 1st Aspect. If we are still stuck on the 2nd one, then what's the point? I'd say that in the East, some of these Mysteries have been understood implicitly for thousands of years before Christ Jesus ever walked the Earth, and LONG before Christian theologians ever began to wrestle with how a person can have a Love for everyone, yet still be an individual - with free will, independence, and a truly unique consciousness.

If someone pointed to a puddle of ooze, and said, try really hard, and maybe one day you, too, can be a part of that puddle, I'd have to just laugh. Of course that's not what is intended in the expression, "the dew drop slips into the shining sea."

I know, I know, we like to put a face, a name, an image, a persona - to that sea. But whether we call it Allah, Yahweh, Vishnu, Ormazd .... even Great and Mighty Fred, it's still what it is. Having a "personal relationship" with the 1st Aspect of Godhead is exactly what we're all here for, in one way, yet I think it's equally true to say that in normal, everyday terms - such a thing is impossible. But it doesn't mean we aren't supposed to try. And it doesn't mean Christ was just whistlin Dixie when he said, "I and the Father are One" ... and reminded the Apostles that to behodl Him, was to behold the Father.

We just like to reduce everything to simple, human terms. Including God, and the greatest of all Mysteries. "The mind is the great slayer of the Real."

Namaskar,

taijasa

Quahom1 · 09-19-2006, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taijasi

...We just like to reduce everything to simple, human terms. Including God, and the greatest of all Mysteries. "The mind is the great slayer of the Real."

Namaskar,

taijasa

No, I meant I simply like to walk with God. I like to converse, ask questions, wonder and delight at what He has to show me...simple companionship between loved, and beloved...that's all.

It's not an intellectual thing. It just is...

"K.I.S.S." Seems to work best.

v/r

Q

Marietta · 09-19-2006, 03:54 AM

Hello Quahom, Why do you think that joining energy/consciousness with Source is giving up your identity? We each think for ourselves and are conscious sentient beings and will always be such. Energy/Consciousness never dies it merely transforms from one state to another either gaining more energy holding capacity or losing energy holding capacity. The higher up in density we go the more conscious holding capacity we have, which means we have a greater capacity for thinking and knowing what is what. Once we merge with Source we are our own consciousness but in a unified field without the chaos. Free will is the supreme law of the universe and taking the free will of another is what has been mislabeled as sin. Source/god allows all thought however when one person imposes there will upon another, this goes against the will of Source/god.
There is no loss in being one with Source, you do not lose your identity. You fully realize your identity and position within the bigger identity field you are a part of. Its like my ears do the hearing within this body of mine and the eyes do the seeing and the feet do the walking, the heart pumps the blood. Each identity within Source has its own unique thought process that has a divine purpose and works for the good of the whole.

The purpose of our being humans in this three dimensional existence is to experience what it is like to be this separated from Source and what it is like to experience polarity.

The companion for man was his polar opposite, the other half of himself. We were originally androgynous male and female in perfect union in one being. The taking of woman out of the side of man was about dividing into polar opposites. When translated literally it says, "these here are from asking everything that was beautiful pure and holy to leave and mysteriously she did so of her own accord." It was not about taking a rib from the side of a man and creating a woman. The male energy was the inner core of the partaki (the smallest unit of energy/consciousness) and the female surrounded it (the womb so to speak) holding it within.
The fall is about falling from the sixth dimension into this third dimension. Humans were created on Tara which is earth's counter part in the second harmonic universe which consists of dimensions four, five and six. Humans were created as angelic beings however they were given to much knowledge without the maturity to handle it and being manipulated by what has been called fallen angels they used energy in a manner that caused a catastrophe on their planet and a portion of Tara broke off and fell into this density. It was hosted into this density through a morphogenetic field of Urtha (the Van Allen radiation belt) which held the same blue print as Tara did

I hope this wasn't to long.
Love and Light, Midge

taijasi · 09-19-2006, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

No, I meant I simply like to walk with God. I like to converse, ask questions, wonder and delight at what He has to show me...simple companionship between loved, and beloved...that's all.

It's not an intellectual thing. It just is...

"K.I.S.S." Seems to work best.

v/r

Q

Well, then by the same token, I enjoy it when my quarks - charm, strange and the gang - walk with me. Hey, we don't talk physics, we just converse.

taijasi

Quahom1 · 09-19-2006, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marietta

Hello Quahom, Why do you think that joining energy/consciousness with Source is giving up your identity? ...

Io solo. Perhaps not the wording that a baby first born considers, but none the less the sentiment is there. Then, "Whoa! There are others!?!" is the second sentiment. But the first is the longest lasting...

So when God comes knocking on our door, we think (for how long?). Then in life we find (if we choose to accept what is), that God is there always, and meets us on our own "turf". That is the wonder of God, you see? But we don't give up ourselves. Give up our lives, give up our health, give up our freedom, but not ourselves, until, until we understand that God does not wish to absorb us. He wants to walk with us.

Hate to bring this up, but we are mongeral dogs, who are being befriended by a good master. And we understand deep inside that it is the "Master". And He sees us as a perfect prize, for some reason...

It isn't God that looks down on us. It is we who look down on us. (io solo). So this God gives it to us in levels we can understand, to the point where we come to Him in fear, and Hope, and Trust, and He makes us "Men" again. (for lack of a better term). I think, we are nowhere near the "man" that Adam was. So much potential... (we are just a shadow).

I wish I could explain what is in my mind, better. But I can't seem to find the words.

But I don't think God wanted a wimp. He wants someone to walk and talk and commune with Him, as a Companion. From a different perspective, so to speak.

We all have talents, see? With God's guidance, and encouragement, what we do in this life with our talents...how much farther we can go in eternity...

But the Father is by nature intimidating. And the Spirit is not directly accessible. That leaves the Son, who wore our visage, felt our pains, and suffered our fear of death (think about it, the only thing we really fear is dying). Is that all there is? He said no. God, showed us even He is more powerful than death, and there was only one way to prove it to man...so He did.

But at no time, in all of this did Jesus ever, or the Father ever, or the Spirit ever say, or imply "you must become one with me".

I have free will now. I suspect I'll have free will then. My heart is a different matter...

my thoughts

v/r

Q

BlaznFattyz · 09-19-2006, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marietta

Hello BlaznFattyz,
Nice to have this opportunity to share thoughts with you. Are you aware that the bible has been manipulated over and over finally at the council of Nicia a theology was put together along with a translation to match it.
God didn't reveal this about himself, it is what those at the council of Nicia decided to teach. Then came the inquisition which began in the 1100's and lasted into the 1600's during which time anybody who opposed the teachings of the new found church were killed.
Please give me the reference in the old testament where God is referred to as the father. Also give me the new Testament reference you are speaking of, I have found most of the time that it is a mistranslation.
Thank you for your input.
Love and Light, Midge

God created man in his image, and women from the man.
Moses who talked with God referred to God with masculine titles
The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary which gave birth to the Son.
God revealed himself thru his Son, a man named Jesus.
Jesus refers to God as his Father.
The Church is the Bride of Christ, Christ is the Groom.

These are not concepts of male superiority, rather there are concepts of masculinity to assist in our understanding of Gods character. such as a bolt is female and the screw is male. the screw does not have gender, it is a way to describe authority, the one penetrating, power, strength, the head, protector, king, lord. It is the way to convey his nature in a way man could understand.

the same thing with the trinity, God reveals his nature through the concept of the trinity and the bible refers to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as He and Him in agreement throughout the bible.

Quahom1 · 09-19-2006, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

God created man in his image, and women from the man.
Moses who talked with God referred to God with masculine titles
The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary which gave birth to the Son.
God revealed himself thru his Son, a man named Jesus.
Jesus refers to God as his Father.
The Church is the Bride of Christ, Christ is the Groom.

These are not concepts of male superiority, rather there are concepts of masculinity to assist in our understanding of Gods character. such as a bolt is female and the screw is male. the screw does not have gender, it is a way to describe authority, the one penetrating, power, strength, the head, protector, king, lord. It is the way to convey his nature in a way man could understand.

the same thing with the trinity, God reveals his nature through the concept of the trinity and the bible refers to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as He and Him in agreement throughout the bible.

The Spirit of God reveals self to some, and to others there is confoundment. Maybe that is you and me, or maybe that is others, but it is impossible to explain from either side. There is no language, or common reference point.

What there is, when in doubt, is prayer for the truth, (that is for all of us to consider, even if we think we are right).

v/r

Q

Dor · 09-19-2006, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenod

To me, the God of the Bible is a personal Being, not a universal force or energy. I see the story of the Bible as one of establishing a personal relationship between God and humans on an individual level - love, trust, hope, ...

I do not get a sense of these things by regarding God as some sort of cosmic energy that pervades the universe. I feel/believe that I know God personally.

I agree with you Kenod. God is a personal being. I can see God, and talk to God and feel God on a daily basis. He is not some inpersonal force or some state of consciousness.

Of course thats just the 2cents of some radical bible thumper.

taijasi · 09-19-2006, 04:07 PM

In the words of Master Yoda:

"For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. It's energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we... not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you. Here, between you... me... the tree... the rock... everywhere!"

George Lucas explains:

"I put the Force into the movie in order to try to awaken a certain kind of spirituality in young people--more a belief in God than a belief in any particular religious system. I wanted to make it so that young people would begin to ask questions about the mystery."

"... I would hesitate to call the Force God. It's designed primarily to make young people think about the mystery. Not to say, 'Here's the answer.' It's to say, 'Think about this for a second.'"

from "Of Myth And Men", Time Magazine

Does he ask too much?

Love and Light,

taijasa

Dor · 09-19-2006, 04:46 PM

6 Jesus saith unto him,I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Does he ask too much?

Marietta · 09-19-2006, 04:49 PM

Hello BlaznFattyz, Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this with me.
My thoughts are as follow.

Lets start with the creation of man in Genesis 1:26, 27. Begining with the Hebrew word that has been translated as God, Elohim (ahleph, lamed, hey, yud, mem) (the English equivalent: a, l, h, y, m). This word translates Goddesses plural. ahleph, lahmed (El) is the Hebrew for God and ahleph, lahmed, hey is Goddess the yud mem is the plural ending. To make this mean Gods you have to take the hey out of the middle. Its like men and women, the female holds a more balanced polarity.

There have been rules applied to the Hebrew language that were not intended to be used when these original text were written and there were several letters that have been extracted from the alphabet. Hebrew is the only language in the History of the world that became extinct as a spoken language and then renewed again (in 1948 when Israel became a nation again). It was during the time that it was forbidden to be spoken that rules were added to the language to hide the truth contained within the sacred text.

Quoting from an English translation The New American Standard: Then God (Elohim) said, "Let US make man (Adam) into OUR image, according to OUR likeness and let THEM rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over the cattle. 27. Then God created man (Adam) in his own image in the image of God he created him MALE AND FEMALE he created THEM.

The word translated as man is Adam (aleph, daleth, mem) and means to be red or more literally gas from red blood and simply refers to red blooded mankind. There is another Hebrew word that means the male, or man. They were created holding both male and female energy in a perfect balance and more than one being was created. Not one single man from which all else emerged.

Please give me the specific chapter and verse you are referring to where Moses referred to God with masculine titles? If you study the history of the church you will find that before the Council of Nicea it was taught that the Holy Spirit was the Female energy of the godhead and son should have been translated as offspring because Jesus was born in purity holding a perfect balance of both the male and female energy.

When Jesus refers to his heavenly father the Greek word translated as father means progenitor of for-father and he was referring to the for-father in heaven not God. It would be best if you could give me the chapter and verse you are trying to quote so I can let you know the exact Greek word so you can look it up for yourself.

Everything you are stating is due to the fact that the Council of Nicea decided to make God a Male and put woman under subjugation of the male but this is not what the original text tells us.

According to the Etymological Dictionary of the Hebrew Language the Hebrew word Torah (which is the first books of the OT) literally means a book containing all the sciences of the Universe shortened to the book of the LAW (the laws of nature, physics).

Google DaVinci's painting of the last supper and blow it up. What you will see in this painting is Jesus as a female looking figure this is because Jesus held the perfect balance of energy which manifests in a female body because it hold both XX chromosomes. You will also note that there are six women and six men and the men have shorter hair with beards.
When the Cystene chapel was refurbished and the loin cloths were removed from the paintings the church forbid the loin cloth of Jesus to be removed however many of the beings that were supposed to be male ended up female and vise versa.

You stated:
""The Church is the Bride of Christ, Christ is the Groom.""

Would you mind supplying the text that makes this statement?

You stated:
""These are not concepts of male superiority, rather there are concepts of masculinity to assist in our understanding of Gods character. such as a bolt is female and the screw is male. the screw does not have gender, it is a way to describe authority, the one penetrating, power, strength, the head, protector, king, lord. It is the way to convey his nature in a way man could understand.""

This statement is a very belittling statement to all of mankind both male and female. Saying that we are to dumb to understand God's nature unless this Perfect Source is brought into polarity and made into gender. I don't have a problem understanding that Source is everything and holds polarity in perfect balance. and is in need of NOTHING because this Source is EVERYTHING.

The bible states that the teachings are for the Mature who have trained their senses to discern good and evil (polarity).
Hebrews 5:12-14: For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For every one who partakes only of mild is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. Solid food is for the mature who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil. (polarity)
It goes on to say to leave the elementary teachings behind and proceed to maturity.

Thank you for this chance to exchange ideas.

Love and Light, Midge

wil · 09-19-2006, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marietta

Hello Wil, Thanks for the response. However, I don't understand what you are trying to say. Please clarify.
Love and Light, Midge
Wil stated:
Have been reported I believe...but studied and found that the offspring did not contain any chromosones that the mother did not have....I'd like to see that one...

You indicated there are recent reports of virgin births...I am inquiring as to whether these 'reports' have discovered that the dna of the mother and child are the same....if not what supplied the other chromosones not found in the mother?

Yes a number of religions previous to Christianity had a leader which was of virgin birth... this indicates it is a popular myth. The virgin birth is an anomally which creates a mystical specialness about the offspring. If you are indicating it happens with some sort of frequency, a. I'd like to learn more and see what the studies say...and b. think if true it severely diminishes the power of the myths.

Marietta · 09-19-2006, 05:27 PM

Hello Quahom1, Thank you for your thoughts.
Why ask how long God will be at the door, Source will never leave us because we are part of Source and cannot be separated other than by not holding enough consciousness to realize it.
We are part of God how much closer a walk can one take than being always within the body of the Source of All things. Being able to literally hear a voice speak to you and answer your questions. We are NEVER alone or outside of Source because Source is in all and is ALL. Nothing ness that is everything ness is something beyond our 3-D perceptions.
The only way we give up ourselves is by losing consciousness that enables us to self realize who and what we truly are. Source has no wants, this implies a lack and Source is complete in need or want of NOTHING. Source created us to do what ever makes us happy and does not with to take our free will away in any manner. We are here to experience all that life has to offer as long as we don't take the free will of another away. Source has no need to absorb us because we already exist within the consciousness of Source.

You stated: """
That is the wonder of God, you see? But we don't give up ourselves. Give up our lives, give up our health, give up our freedom, but not ourselves, until, until we understand that God does not wish to absorb us. He wants to walk with us."""

I for one am not a mongrel dog, cat or any other animal, vegetable, mineral. I was created in perfection. Source does not need nor want any prizes, Source is everything and in need of Nothing.

You wrote:
"""Hate to bring this up, but we are mongeral dogs, who are being befriended by a good master. And we understand deep inside that it is the "Master". And He sees us as a perfect prize, for some reason."""

Why would a God of Love want anything much less what was created to come to it in fear, fear is the opposite expression of Love and releases your energy for the fallen ones to vampire. Why would the Source of all, want, or desire anything and especially our power?
We are just a shadow refers to the state of this 3-D existence we live within which is merely a shadow of what is in the higher dimensions.

You wrote:
So this God gives it to us in levels we can understand, to the point where we come to Him in fear, and Hope, and Trust, and He makes us "Men" again. (for lack of a better term). I think, we are nowhere near the "man" that Adam was. So much potential... (we are just a shadow).
You wrote:
"""But I don't think God wanted a wimp. He wants someone to walk and talk and commune with Him, as a Companion. From a different perspective, so to speak."""

Why do you think god is in NEED? Don't you think that the Source of All has all that is needed. Why would this Source need/want anything (such as a companion to speak to). Source is All things and communes with itself.

We are co creators with Source and have the ability to go where ever we wish.

I for one do not fear death. I look at it as the beginning of a new venture however death is not a natural process and I do not plan on dying, I plan on transforming bodily into another plan of existence as Jesus did.

In John Jesus said: I and the father are one and if you are in me and I in the father we are One. All of the teachings are about Oneness, becoming one in body and truth.

You wrote:
""""But at no time, in all of this did Jesus ever, or the Father ever, or the Spirit ever say, or imply "you must become one with me"."""

Free will is eternal, it is the divine law.

Love and Light, Midge

taijasi · 09-19-2006, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

6 Jesus saith unto him,I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Does he ask too much?

Okay, Dor, relative to the Trinity ... what do you think was intended by this statement?

taijasi

Marietta · 09-19-2006, 05:37 PM

Hello Wil,
Our DNA is found in our energy field and the new spirit that enters the baby at birth holds its own DNA pattern and it braids with that of the mother. When a man and woman have sex they braid their DNA (weather or not a child is conceived) and therefore the mother holds some of the DNA of the father which is then breaded with that of the child. If the mother is a virgin than only her DNA is braided with that of the Spirit coming into the baby. If the mother has had sexual relations with a man she will pass her DNA along with the DNA she has breaded into her fields onto the baby.
I don't know how frequently this happens I only know that it happens.
Love and Light, Midge