The Warrior Philosophe - Page 3

juantoo3 · 06-10-2006, 06:12 PM

Kindest Regards, China Cat!

That is an interesting take on the matter. Do you agree with it?

juantoo3 · 06-10-2006, 06:17 PM

In the spirit of the sit-in, I wish to offer a few songs that illustrate my view a little better:

MARVIN GAYE
Mercy, Mercy Me (The Ecology)

Woo ah, mercy mercy me
Ah things ain't what they used to be, no no
Where did all the blue skies go?
Poison is the wind that blows from the north and south and east
Woo mercy, mercy me, mercy father
Ah things ain't what they used to be, no no
Oil wasted on the ocean and upon our seas, fish full of mercury
Ah oh mercy, mercy me
Ah things ain't what they used to be, no no
Radiation under ground and in the sky
Animals and birds who live nearby are dying
Oh mercy, mercy me
Ah things ain't what they used to be
What about this overcrowded land
How much more abuse from man can she stand?
Oh, na na...
My sweet Lord... No
My Lord... My sweet Lord

***
BALL OF CONFUSION by the TEMPTATIONS

1, 2... 1, 2, 3, 4, Ow!

Eddie:
People moving out, people moving in.
Why, because of the color of their skin.
Run, run, run but you sure can't hide.

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.
Vote for me and I'll set you free.
Rap on, brother, rap on.

Dennis:
Well, the only person talking about love thy brother is the...(preacher.)
And it seems nobody's interested in learning but the...(teacher.)
Segregation, determination, demonstration, intergration,
Aggravation, humiliation, obligation to our nation.

Ball of confusion.
Oh yeah, that's what the world is today.
Woo, hey, hey.

Paul:
The sale of pills are at an all time high.
Young folks walking round with their heads in the sky.
The cities ablaze in the summer time.

And oh, the beat goes on.

Dennis:
Evolution, revolution, gun control, sound of soul.
Shooting rockets to the moon, kids growing up too soon.
Politicians say more taxes will solve everything.

Melvin:
And the band played on.

So, round and around and around we go.
Where the world's headed, nobody knows.

[Instrumental]

Oh, great googalooga, can't you hear me talking to you.
Just a ball of confusion.
Oh yeah, that's what the world is today.
Woo, hey, hey.

Eddie:
Fear in the air, tension everywhere.
Unemployment rising fast, the Beatles new record's a gas.

Dennis:
And the only safe place to live is on an indian reservation.

Melvin:
And the band played on.

Eve of destruction, tax deduction, city inspectors, bill collectors,
Mod clothes in demand, population out of hand, suicide, too many bills,
Hippies moving to the hills. People all over the world are shouting, 'End the war.'

Melvin:
And the band played on.

[Instrumental]

Great googalooga, can't you hear me talking to you.
Sayin'... ball of confusion.
That's what the world is today, hey, hey.

Let me hear ya, let me hear ya, let me hear ya.
Sayin'... ball of confusion.
That's what the world is today, hey, hey.
Let me hear ya, let me hear ya, let me hear ya, let me hear ya, let me hear ya.
Sayin'... ball of confusion.

***
R.E.M.
It's The End Of The World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)

(from official lyric sheet)

That's great, it starts with an earthquake, birds and snakes, an aeroplane -
Lenny Bruce is not afraid. Eye of a hurricane, listen to yourself churn -
world serves its own needs, regardless of your own needs. Feed it up a knock,
speed, grunt no, strength no. Ladder structure clatter with fear of height,
down height. Wire in a fire, represent the seven games in a government for
hire and a combat site. Left her, wasn't coming in a hurry with the furies
breathing down your neck. Team by team reporters baffled, trump, tethered
crop. Look at that low plane! Fine then. Uh oh, overflow, population,
common group, but it'll do. Save yourself, serve yourself. World serves its
own needs, listen to your heart bleed. Tell me with the rapture and the
reverent in the right - right. You vitriolic, patriotic, slam, fight, bright
light, feeling pretty psyched.

It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.

Six o'clock - TV hour. Don't get caught in foreign tower. Slash and burn,
return, listen to yourself churn. Lock him in uniform and book burning,
blood letting. Every motive escalate. Automotive incinerate. Light a candle,
light a motive. Step down, step down. Watch a heel crush, crush. Uh oh,
this means no fear - cavalier. Renegade and steer clear! A tournament,
a tournament, a tournament of lies. Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives
and I decline.

It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.

The other night I tripped a nice continental drift divide. Mount St. Edelite.
Leonard Bernstein. Leonid Breshnev, Lenny Bruce and Lester Bangs.
Birthday party, cheesecake, jelly bean, boom! You symbiotic, patriotic,
slam, but neck, right? Right.

It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine...fine...

(It's time I had some time alone)
***
CRIME OF THE CENTURY
SUPERTRAMP
Rick Davies and Roger Hodgeson

Now they're planning the crime of the century
Oh what will it be?
Read all about their schemes and adventurin'
It's well worth the fee

So roll up and see
How they rape the universe
How they've gone from bad to worse

Who are these men of lust, greed and glory?
Rip off the masks and let's see...
But that's not right, oh no, what's the story?
Well there's you and there's me...

China Cat Sunflower · 06-10-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Kindest Regards, China Cat!

That is an interesting take on the matter. Do you agree with it?

Yes.

I think that the idea of just and unjust wars is in great measure an illusion. Even in an entirely just war, if there is such a thing, there is collateral damage. Innocents die either way. Pacifism is an intellectual luxury bought with the blood of warriors. Peace is a valley created by historically bookended mountains of struggle and bloodshed.

Chris

juantoo3 · 06-10-2006, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Yes.

I think that the idea of just and unjust wars is in great measure an illusion. Even in an entirely just war, if there is such a thing, there is collateral damage. Innocents die either way. Pacifism is an intellectual luxury bought with the blood of warriors. Peace is a valley created by historically bookended mountains of struggle and bloodshed.

Chris

Cool! Then somebody else here does understand.

China Cat Sunflower · 06-10-2006, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Cool! Then somebody else here does understand.

Yes! And it's not a glorification or justification of war to accept and try to understand the way things are and have been. There is a time for peace,we all want peace, but there is also a time to fight. Non-violent means of struggle are still enlightened ways of waging war. Civil rights weren't realized without bloodshed even though the means of struggle were non-violent. It was the death of little girls in Birmingham, images of police dogs and firehoses, the mutilated body of Medgar Evers, that seared thier way into the conscience of the nation and shamed us into change. It was the senseless death of students at Kent State, our kids killing our kids that helped turn the tide of social conscience against the Vietnam war.

Now, again, it is a time to fight. It is time to rouse ourselves from our apathetic malaise and fight the forces of entropy that have infiltrated our government. It is time for patriots to rise up and beat back the creeping corporate fascism enveloping us. It's time to stand up and say "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore." Now is not the time to sit back and sniff the incense, it is the time to fight.

Chris

juantoo3 · 06-10-2006, 07:58 PM

Good, good! So you do see that this extends beyond simply human to human, that we are constantly at war with nature?

China Cat Sunflower · 06-10-2006, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Good, good! So you do see that this extends beyond simply human to human, that we are constantly at war with nature?

Sorry, I kinda went on a tangent.

I don't know if I'd say we are at "war" with nature, just that the nature of Nature is struggle for supremacy. Nature puts out an overabundance in order to facillitate that struggle. For example, there is an overabundance of males to accomodate strictly the function of procreation. What is the point of all these extra males if not to fight for supremacy?

Chris

Quahom1 · 06-10-2006, 11:42 PM

War is a pain in the ass. It hurts. War is the defense of what one holds so tightly to be true that, even one's own life doesn't matter.

There is a man, who decides he will take what he wants, and to hell with the rest. Then there is a man who refuses to be taken, and everything rides on the rest.

One loves the gore of battle, and the other hates the very thought of it. Both fight like there is nothing left, often to the point where there is...nothing left.

Which has the right philosophy?

Battle between animals is often for survival and territorial rights. Battle between man is often for ideals, and power.

One says, "I rule over you". The other says, "You do not rule me"...and the battle begins.

Interesting, that no one thought to invite me into this conversation...since I am a life long soldier, and think I have much to provide on this topic...

v/r

Q

juantoo3 · 06-11-2006, 12:23 AM

Kindest Regards, Q!

Quote:

Interesting, that no one thought to invite me into this conversation...since I am a life long soldier, and think I have much to provide on this topic...

It took you long enough to show up! I started to invite you earlier, but I noticed you were occupied with another project. I figured you would stop by in your own good time. You know you are welcome.

A good point I saw you raise in the other thread, about civilized men and barbarians. The only trouble I see is perspective, to either man, the other seems the "barbarian."

This thread is a reaction to the whining in the other thread. I've seen that one before, and it leads (when unchecked) to spitting on soldiers as they return and calling them things like "baby killer." That is sooo not right, especially from people who haven't the fortitude to place their own lives in jeopardy to serve and save another.

This thread is a counterpoint to show that the "holier than thou" types are just as guilty of murder, that we all are, as a consequence of survival and human nature. This thread has been instrumental to show how violently people advocate peace, which seems to me so self-contradictory. I applaude Ciel and Poh, and the especially noble attempt by Wil, for standing as exceptions. By and large though, I see the underlying animal straining at its leash, looking for its preferred scapegoat. To be consumed in anger, whether for peace or not, is the mark of barbarity. Civility needs no scapegoat, civility need not be consumed in hatred, civility operates of necessity.

Sometimes we need to look in the mirror, to get a reality check, to realize that thing we "hate" in another is the direct reflection of ourselves. Some of us can't handle this truth, but need to see it just the same. It puts things into a greater perspective. It makes us understand that each of us as individuals is not the focus of the universe, that there is a whole wide world out there greater than any one of us.

Once again, I applaude and thank our men and women in uniform. Your service is too often belittled and disregarded, your motivations and efforts get disparaged. I also understand that it is closed minds that disregard our uniformed services.

We think our societies have grown so far from the beginnings as tribes. Yet, we still depend on our warriors. I defy anybody to convince how life would be better without our warriors. It is the efforts of the warriors that allow the philosophers the opportunity to wax poetic. Without warriors, there are no philosophers.

Quahom1 · 06-11-2006, 01:21 AM

Didn't mean to rain on your (collective), parade all. I guess, what I want you to know is that, I volunteered a long time ago, to wear a uniform (nobody drafted me). My sons (of their own volition), volunteered to wear a uniform, despite the arguments flying through the airwaves, and what was going on.

That in my book is courageous...

We three believe that life is precious, and worth defending. We also believe that rights are more precious than our lives, and worth defending. The time is coming, when the basic rights of every American will come into question, if we keep allowing small dynamos to whittle away at those rights.

For me and mine, well, I've been saving lives my whole career. My one son does nothing but put people back together (if he can), or hold them until they let go (if he can't). My other son, takes lives. He doesn't like it, but he is damn good at it. We all are of the same mind. War is a bitch, but move out and make fast for the next storm...fight, fight, fight, until there is no more fight left in you, or you have won.

I believe in the good fight. Because I wan't to come home to a "Main Street", in "Heartland", USA. I want to see a church, and a temple, and a Mosque, and I want my neighbors to not only understand eachother, but love one another. I want the next door mom have no problem bringing her children over to my home, because of an issue she must take care of, regardless of the fact that me and mine are christian, and she and hers are Muslim.

I want every human being on earth to have that same chance at "American style" equality. I want all to have that dream. I've enjoyed it, why shouldn't they? And why not in their own countries? I could wax philosophical here...(lol)

I want them to be able to choose.

You send us everywhere, for your money interests (own stock? you sent us overseas to insure your stock is covered). You want lower fuel prices, yet you want your big ass vehicles (we are sent overseas to see that you have the fuel). You scream about smokers, and how they pollute your air, while you start up your Mercedez diesels...you don't want your kids doing drugs (like you might have done, when it was "innocent"), and guess what, we are there.

Warrior Philosphy: is in conflict, because we are caught between two enemies. One is home, and the other is abroad. We have no where to go...
You made a command of 2.3 million military adhere to a code of ethics, morality and law that you refuse to adhere to yourselves!. When we come home, there is no home, and you wonder why we go nuts?

The last f'n thing my son wanted to hear upon coming home was some yahoo stating for the ACLU, that God is finally "dead" in the US.

Why don't you define what the warrior Philosophy should be folks?

Be careful, You may get exactly what you wish for...

Q

juantoo3 · 06-11-2006, 01:35 PM

Kindest Regards, Q!

Great post!

Quote:

You made a command of 2.3 million military adhere to a code of ethics, morality and law that you refuse to adhere to yourselves!

The underlying theme of this thread...

sjr · 11-28-2006, 08:25 AM

Sorry to bring this thread up again .. And not to minimize those who are or have fought for their beliefs, and even died. The archetypes of a WARRIOR are as prevalent as being a male( or female) in society. Robert Moore and Douglas Gillette wrote a great book “King, Warrior, Magician, Lover” in 1990 discussing such archetypes Amazon.com: King, Warrior, Magician, Lover: Rediscovering the Archetypes of the Mature Masculine: Books: Robert Moore,Douglas Gillette they go as far as saying those “who would cut off masculine aggressiveness at its root, in their zeal, themselves fall under the power of this archetype” and this archetype in its positive fullness can lead to liberation ( in the negative, genocide). A quote from Morihei Ushiba:

Love is the
guardian deity
of everything.

Nothing can
Exist without it.

Aikido is
The realization
of love.

All religions have had a warrior archetype, in India the Kshatriya, in Persia the Zoroastrian, the Hebrews were originally a warrior people and followed a warrior God, the Spartans who saved European democracy ideals from the invading Persians, the Native Americans, who leapt into battle with the cry, “Today is a good day to die”, or the samurai tradition of the Japanese. Shall we deny religion?

juantoo3 · 11-28-2006, 05:12 PM

Kindest Regards, sjr!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjr

Love is the
guardian deity
of everything.

Nothing can
Exist without it.

Aikido is
The realization
of love.

I like this.

Quote:

All religions have had a warrior archetype, in India the Kshatriya, in Persia the Zoroastrian, the Hebrews were originally a warrior people and followed a warrior God, the Spartans who saved European democracy ideals from the invading Persians, the Native Americans, who leapt into battle with the cry, “Today is a good day to die”, or the samurai tradition of the Japanese. Shall we deny religion?

That is a major point to consider. Every ancient society that has managed to exist in some form or other until today did so on the backs of their warriors. Without their warriors, those societies just "fade away..." Reminds me of "survival of the fittest." Even "red of tooth and claw," without which we starve and again fail the "fittest" measure. (Vegans notwithstanding, the only realistically valid compromise I can see is that of being frugivore)