The Way of Salvation - Page 2

Faithfulservant · 02-20-2005, 08:32 AM

Matthew 9: 10 Now it happened, as Jesus sat at the table in the house, that behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him and His disciples. 11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His disciples, "Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?" 12 When Jesus heard that, He said to them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice.' For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance."

Actually Jesus was speaking of sinners and their need for repentance. Not "self" healing.. The sinners come to him then and now for thier salvation is only through him.

I would also like to add that the bible repeatedly talks about how we are to submit to God.. Jesus himself had no authority other than what the Father gave him. We have no power other than what the Father allows us to have.. its not OUR power.. it belongs to him. We are not God so we are very limited.. and completely dependant on Him.

You said: "Jesus said 'when you know how to suffer you learn how not to suffer' and suffering as been good for purifying the soul. But humanity is very quickly getting to the point where it as paid back its karma and is ready to live in peace and love in the new Kingdom just like Jesus promised"

We are told that when we suffer we are to look to God for comfort and he promises to give it through Jesus.

Sacredstar · 02-20-2005, 01:18 PM

Dear Faithfulservant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Matthew 9: 10 Now it happened, as Jesus sat at the table in the house, that behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him and His disciples. 11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His disciples, "Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?" 12 When Jesus heard that, He said to them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice.' For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance."

Dear Faithfulservant

As Jesus said "He who finds the inner meanings of these words will not taste death" 1 GT

That means try to look beyond the literal, this is how I understand the insights from the above.

He said he desires mercy not sacrifice.

He is asking his followers to have mercy and compassion for self and not sacrifice oneself like a lamb on the alter to GOD. In fact he went further to accuse his disciples of getting drunk on his energy, he was cross that they were not getting his message of spiritual independence, his mission was to empower not disempower, unite not separate consciousness. To help individuals to take back their power so that they could be an instrument for GOD's will-to-good and unite with GOD in wholeness and oneness. Not as an inferior being but as GOD's equal for GOD made us in his image and so it is a co-creation, GOD can do nothing without our willingness and alignment with us and we cannot fulfil diivne will without GOD.

He said he did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.

The original hebrew translation of 'as to sin' means to miss the mark like an arrow missing its target, the term came from archery. And so the insight I have gained from this inner meaning is that there are some things that we miss and the above quote is quite meaningless without the full teachings and understaning the inner meanings of those teachings, and so it comes bacl to our understanding and interpretations, do we buy what the church as promoted and misrepresented in my view or do we repent by going within to find the source of the imbalance and darkness so that we do not taste death?

The church fathers that put the bible together did not understand the inner meanings because they were not taught the rite of passage by him, those did know the rite of passage were branded heretics due to the church wishing the people to yeild to them, and it was promoted that the only way one could be one with GOD was to have the church and the church fathers as mediators for that repentance ( hence confession) but yet the church fathers knew not of the mystery teachings that healers have known for millennia.

Now let is look at the english meaning of the words 'repent' and 'repentance'

"To regret or wish to be otherwise"

People wish to be healthy when they are unhealthy. People wish to change their lives and Jesus was showing them how through his teachings of self mastery.

'What one as done or left undone'

To solve the mysteries of the self mind, body and soul. To find the meaning of life and the reason for being on planet earth.

"To change from past evil'

To learn from one's error's in thought, word and deed and that which was less good, e.g. unforgiveness, anger, judgement of others, anti-love, blame etc

"Lying on the ground and rooting"

To go to the foundations of the self and root out the darkness so that one can be empowered. It takes a great deal of humilty to look within at one's own shadow side, in order to raise one's consciousness by healing desire, needs and negative emotions and memories.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Jesus was speaking of sinners and their need for repentance. Not "self" healing.. The sinners come to him then and now for thier salvation is only through him.

The people came to him because he was an amazing healer and spiritual teacher and he knew how to assist them to make the breakthroughs in human consciousness. Their salvation was gained through what he taught them and the healing they received through his compassion, love and healing intent. As he said 'you can all do this even better then I' there never was a more empowering statement of spiritual independence and confirmation that people did not need him once they took back their power and trusted GOD.

Did he not also say if you have the faith of a mustard seed you can move mountains and so it is we have the power of GOD within us to create miracles and move mountains in GOD's name.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

I would also like to add that the bible repeatedly talks about how we are to submit to God.. Jesus himself had no authority other than what the Father gave him. We have no power other than what the Father allows us to have.. its not OUR power.. it belongs to him. We are not God so we are very limited.. and completely dependant on Him.

Submit to GOD - I totally agree and it is two-fold, first one as to totally surrender to one's divine self and then one is able to surrender to the Holy spirit of GOD, then one can choose to align our own will with GOD's will. But how many are prepared to surrender all human will to GOD? I personally know very few humans that are truly willing to do this.

We are born with the power of GOD to fufil the will to good it is our original nature for GOD works through us when we allow the force to do so.GOD is not separate from us and unless we believe GOD to be so. In my view and experience while one stays in thought of separation it is very hard to become one with GOD in its fullest experience. We are only as limited as our human thoughts, beliefs and perceptions, limitation is a human trait not a trait of the divine self or the GOD within. But the church very effectively promoted this limitation to keep the people under control. Just imagine what you could create if you realised your own GOD given power, yes indeed you can move mountains with your hand of GOD. GOD does not wish us to be dependent but to take responsibility for what we co-create, when we do this there will be no more wars and harmony and peace will reign on earth. GOD is our friend and our navigator, standing side by side, walking hand in hand, in the front line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

You said: "Jesus said 'when you know how to suffer you learn how not to suffer' and suffering as been good for purifying the soul. But humanity is very quickly getting to the point where it as paid back its karma and is ready to live in peace and love in the new Kingdom just like Jesus promised"

We are told that when we suffer we are to look to God for comfort and he promises to give it through Jesus.

Yes I agree so that the master of suffering can lead us out of the darkness within and show us the way to heal the self so that we may be the light of love like him.

Let us never forget that GOD sent Jesus as a healer and a healer he remains in thought, word and deed. Which is why I am surprised that more Christians have not followed in his footsteps and followed his example by becoming a healers too.

When GOD and his messengers speak to me they use the word redemption the word repentance as never been uttered probably because of the adverse interpretation by the church.

And so what does redemption mean:

To take back (our power and goodness)
To recover (that which is good so that we may transmute that which is dark)
To free oneself (from darkness so that we may take off our dark glasses and come home to self and GOD in true liberation of the soul and spirit)
To rescue (to save ourselves)
To atone (to find reconciliation within so that we may reconcile with GOD and become one with GOD)
To the best advantage (to be the best that we can be)

As I write I can hear this saying ringing in my ears, Jesus said these words more often then any other:

May Peace be with YOU, for when we have made peace with the self it is natural to be at peace with GOD and the rest of the planet.

Thank you for allowing me to share these insights it as enforced my own experience and gnosis further. I honour you and your faith and I feel sure that we can find the middle ground between Christian literalism and Christian Gnosticism.

Your faith makes your light shine brightly faithfulservant.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

Blue · 02-20-2005, 07:12 PM

As some of you will know by now, the concept in the Thread title means little to me in spiritual terms in spite of being a Theist myself.

Without sounding flippant, salvation depends upon survival in this life to at least the point where we can fulfil the genetic imperative to reproduce before we die.

That depends upon being healthy enough, having had something of a physical nurture for a number of years, and safe enough to perform that function.

That depends upon food and shelter.

A spiritual concept of salvation seems to hypothesise that there is some other kind of 'Salvation' necessitating a different imperative, a different kind of sustenance, which is perhaps 'spiritual' food, and shelter somewhere other than on this planet as objective human beings; spiritual shelter.

Now, surely it is a personal thing if we decide to validate such a concept within our affective nature and nurture? It bears no necessity of external and objective proofs. It cannot be denied. It may be comfort some of the living.

I can see nothing wrong with that.

If that is what people wish to believe in their hearts (and souls?), that is what they wish to believe.

What one cannot do though is simply assert that there IS 'Salvation' somewhere beyond death for everyone.... because, the fact is, that we do NOT factually, objectively, 'know' or have any evidence for such a state of beyond physical life called 'Salvation'.
Asserting such things does not make them into some kind of ultimate' or 'universal' truth, just because they are part of a religious tradition, a set of doctrines and dogmas, or just a personal conceptualisation.

I think this must be understood, whatever the particular feelings you may have internally/spiritually validated to your own satisfactions as evidenced below in this Thread.

"Happy Days!"

lunamoth · 02-20-2005, 07:39 PM

Dear Fatihfulservant and Sacredstar, I hope you will not mind me jumping in here to respond to few of SS's comments

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

As Jesus said "He who finds the inner meanings of these words will not taste death" 1 GT

That means try to look beyond the literal, this is how I understand the insights from the above.

I note that this is from the Gospel of Thomas and I don't have any problem with that. I agree that we will find many layers of meaning in any given passage of the Bible and that there is not just one literal interpretation. However I don't believe that one needs some kind of secret knowledge either from other teachings or personal Revelation in the form of direct Communicatin from God or visions or what have you. I'm not saying that we do not receive divine inspiration as we pray and mediate on the Bible, just that it is not always in the form of angels speaking in one's head or some kind of secret scriptures being hidden from us by Rome or the devil or the bogeyman or whomever. I am arguing against gnosis and pretty much for the same reason Ireneaus did: it creates elitism and division among the followers of Christ.

Sacredstar, you go on the give us some of the inspirations you have had about the scriputres under discussion and that is excellent. But then you say:

Quote:

He said he did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.

The original hebrew translation of 'as to sin' means to miss the mark like an arrow missing its target, the term came from archery. And so the insight I have gained from this inner meaning is that there are some things that we miss and the above quote is quite meaningless without the full teachings and understaning the inner meanings of those teachings, and so it comes bacl to our understanding and interpretations, do we buy what the church as promoted and misrepresented in my view or do we repent by going within to find the source of the imbalance and darkness so that we do not taste death?

The church fathers that put the bible together did not understand the inner meanings because they were not taught the rite of passage by him, those did know the rite of passage were branded heretics due to the church wishing the people to yeild to them, and it was promoted that the only way one could be one with GOD was to have the church and the church fathers as mediators for that repentance ( hence confession) but yet the church fathers knew not of the mystery teachings that healers have known for millennia.

(bolds by lm)

Do you believe then that Jesus' preferred method of teaching was by secret initiation? That his word could only really be understood and interpretted by a few chosen individuals and the rest were left out of God's plan for salvation? And that it just happened that the ones who "got it right" were suppressed efficiently while only those with corruption in mind were successful in establishing Christianity?

Don't you think God would be a bit more, uh, efficient than that? You clearly believe God is pouring out His love on us--why would you think that only corruption and conspiracy would reign for 2000 years after Christ with God's grace pouring freely on us the whole time? I would suggest that yes, it is very possible that Christinaity could look very different today if things had gone differently in the early centuries, but I would not say that it would necessarily be better.

Just my 2c

Peace,
lunamoth

Faithfulservant · 02-20-2005, 07:51 PM

I just wanted to add about our will not aligning with Gods and how people fight it because its their nature.. That is so true.. So what a wonderful thing to be able to do to lay your life before God and pray " Father my life is yours please do with it what you will because I trust you in all your ways.. you know so much better than I do.. My path is yours to create because I know that you will send me where I need to go teach me what I need to know with your Word and use me however you will to to edify you the church and myself. You are glorious in all your ways and as Moses spent 40 days with you on the mount he came down with his face shining so brightly I would also ask your light to shine so brightly from me so that people would see you through me. I pray that you keep me on a righteous path, Lord. For the world is not righteous and I do not wish to fall in its way. In Jesus' precious name... Amen.

Everyday its a spiritual warfare to not take back control from God and believe it or not that is the lesson he teaches me most. Most of my heartache and trials comes from taking it back from him! And Im still learning. How wonderful it is that he is so patient with me.. disciplining me lovingly..for it is then that I know that I am his child and I praise him.

He is a loving Father and my salvation is through grace in our Savior the King of Kings the Lord of Lords, Jesus Christ.

Blue · 02-21-2005, 10:11 AM

"our will not aligning with Gods and how people fight it because its their nature.. That is so true.."
========================
How can we speak of our "will" not aligning with Gods, or aligning with Gods? (God's?)

How can we possibly prove beyond personal validations that our "will" can or cannot align with Gods? (God's) We cannot.

How can anyone know as a fact beyond themselves that
a) there are Gods, and
b) that we could possibly know if our "will" can be aligned with them?
That would surely necessitate 'knowing' (claiming to know) the very mind of God, and how can anyone be so presumptious and proud to do that?

What if the God so conceived is a false God... or a non-existent God?
How would you know beyond your own faith in such a concept?
No one does and no one has.

If therefore Faith is a purely personal concern how on Earth can anyone declare such matters as if they are universally true? How can they declare there is in fact a 'pathway' (note: not 'pathways') to 'Salvation' for others? That those others can personally seek it, find it, and follow it?
Well, of course others can, but there is no guarantee or necessity that it should be the same path or even the same religion with its particular doctrines and dogmas.

This Community area is about belief and spirituality... not specifically Christianity which seems to be the proselytising intent of a number of posters on this thread.

How can the matters stated in this thread be viewed as specifically Christian in orientation?
We should be discussing Pagan, Jewish, Hindu, Sikh, Jain, etc., etc., concepts of salvation, if it appears in those religions and spiritual responses as important, as there are perhaps many paths claimed that could be construed as 'ways' to 'salvation'; even taking drugs, as many of the Old Testament writers may have done.

No one here has even satisfactorily indicated from what we are being saved by this 'salvation'.
What are we being 'saved' from? Hell? Damnation? Our own selfishness, greed and lustful, cruel desires, perhaps?

What kind of spiritual and religious view is it that conceives of those who are saved and those who are not?
Surely, 'judgement' from some entity or other can be explained to someone else, who has no understanding of such a strange and vengeful concept?
No one has done that here so far in my reading of the posts, which I accept are sincerely meant and honest in their personal expressions.

Why would an all-powerful 'God' want to condemn the unbelievers to some idea of 'Hell and damnation'? What about the pagans, the atheists, the Jains, the Hindus, etc? Are they 'damned' because they have not 'served' this all-powerful God? Are they condemned by this all-powerful God to a place that is neither heaven nor Hell?

I have read here quotations sourced from both the Apochryphal and Gnostic texts and the Bible. How can such texts be viewed as some kind of 'authority'? Are they any different from writings concerning other Gods in other faiths? Do they have some kind of precedence because they come from a 'christian' Bible? That seems a) presumptious, and b) proudful (or should I say, less than humble?)!

Finally, what is this 'spiritual warfare'? What does that actually mean?
Who or what is at War with who or what?

As LUNAMOTH posted:

"Do you believe then that Jesus' preferred method of teaching was by secret initiation? That his word could only really be understood and interpretted by a few chosen individuals and the rest were left out of God's plan for salvation? And that it just happened that the ones who "got it right" were suppressed efficiently while only those with corruption in mind were successful in establishing Christianity?

Don't you think God would be a bit more, uh, efficient than that?"

It seems to me that a number of people here wish to both have a personal God, and one that is 'out there' beyond themselves.
If the latter had any evidence, that might be worth discussing, but surely the fact is that any 'God' concept is personal and precious to the individual as their spiritual response... and that is all that can be said.
That does not necessitate proofs. It cannot brook denial, it is secure in its heartfelt (and maybe soulful) personal understandings. That is not only as it should be... it is a fact. Faith exists in the individual. If it had proofs beyond the individual, we would be dealing with objectivities amenable to investigation.

Generalising to others about 'salvation' is therefore not only potentially dangerous, it has no validity beyond the individual.
To many of a different faith other than Christianity, it may not even have any personal application or meaning relelvanjt to those individuals.

There can be comfort in supposing that other Christians may feel as you do yourself, if you happen to be Christian, but beyond that there is no universal application or even, of necessity, any meaning beyond your own heart (and soul?).

Where does this Thread title suppose the 'path' leads?
What is it saving us from?
Why is a beyond death 'salvation' of spirit considered by some to be important?
What does it in that case achieve? (Oneness with the Almighty? What does that mean?)
Most importantly, what does it visibily achieve for the living? The evidence seems to suggest, it consists of telling other people their spiritual responses are false, and there is only one true path to this 'salvation'.
It consists of imposing a set of beliefs, dogmas and dosctrines upon those of other faiths and no-faith... and even seeking to dominate their honestly held spiritual responses and mould them to the 'one' view. It proselytises itself as a specific religious meme, which bears no logical necessity of truth.

Haven't all monotheistic religions always done this? Even tortured and gone to war over this... in the physical realm?
Can that honestly be justified historically, or in the hatreds stirred up in the modern world?

Come on now; let's ask ourselves some questions.
Is spiritual 'salvation' a delusion, or not?
Is there only one 'path' as the Title states?

Faithfulservant · 02-21-2005, 10:49 AM

same argument always Blue ... someday I might see a new one and be pleasantly surprised

Blue · 02-21-2005, 11:38 AM

So, as I understand it, FaithfulServant, you have no answers to the many questions.

That's fine.

I expected no other response than this, but it may make others think.

I can only draw appropriate conclusions from that and wish you well in your blind faith. As with many people apparently, it may serve you well upto a point.

Security in some doctrines and dogmas does not actually mean that sense of security, comfort and satisfaction will continue.

I would rather put my trust in what can be ascertained objectively with the employment of reason and rationality, however uncomfortable that may be, and that is where we must leave it.
(Unless you pronounce upon other matters as if they are universally true of others as well as yourself, because of what you simply 'feel' is the case.)

lunamoth · 02-21-2005, 01:35 PM

I do not wish to be in warfare with anyone, spiritually or otherwise

. Thought we were in the Christianity thread there for a minute!

I aopoligize SS if my comments offended you. I was a cat barking up the wrong tomato plant, haha!.

peace,

Sacredstar · 02-21-2005, 02:24 PM

Dear Blue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue

A spiritual concept of salvation seems to hypothesise that there is some other kind of 'Salvation' necessitating a different imperative, a different kind of sustenance, which is perhaps 'spiritual' food, and shelter somewhere other than on this planet as objective human beings; spiritual shelter.

Yes this is very true my own experience ties in with the Dead Sea Scrolls inference that we are given two keys to truth one leads to hell and the other to heaven within. When you have been to Hell blue you certainly know when you have been saved and achieved salvation. I have a wonderful case study on a woman that was sexually abused at age 6 by her father her story is a wonderful demonstration of how the soul is saved and reborn in this lifetime.

Dear All

WOW there are so many important and excellent questions here on this thread I will briefly pick out the ones that ping out at me but perhaps you may consider for the ones that are really important to you that you could start specific threads.

being love

Kim x

Sacredstar · 02-21-2005, 03:09 PM

Dear Lunamoth

[QUOTE=lunamoth]

1) However I don't believe that one needs some kind of secret knowledge.

2) It creates elitism and division among the followers of Christ.

3) Do you believe then that Jesus' preferred method of teaching was by secret initiation?

4) That his word could only really be understood and interpretted by a few chosen individuals.

5) And the rest were left out of God's plan for salvation?

6) And that it just happened that the ones who "got it right" were suppressed efficiently while only those with corruption in mind were successful in establishing Christianity?

7) Don't you think God would be a bit more, uh, efficient than that?

8) You clearly believe God is pouring out His love on us--why would you think that only corruption and conspiracy would reign for 2000 years after Christ with God's grace pouring freely on us the whole time?

9) I would suggest that yes, it is very possible that Christinaity could look very different today if things had gone differently in the early centuries, but I would not say that it would necessarily be better.
=lunamothQUOTE]

1) The secret knowledge is in the Gnostic Gospels of the Nag Hammadi Library not included in the bible in my view. I am writing an article on this so will share soon.

2) That is in the eye of the beholder, in my view and experience it is the complete opposite because everyone is able to experience GOD and the messages that come through all creation e.g. the example given the other day by PM it is whether we open our awareness to see GOD in all things. The followers have been divided since the beginning due to the direct experience of GOD being separated by the church inmy view.

3) Yes it is clear from the bible in some cases this was the case. E.g the secret gospel of mark. Also in the Gospel of Thomas and Mary Jesus taught them things he did not teach the others.

Let me explain further as a spiritual teacher one cannot take a sexually abused person from A-Z in a huge leap in consciousness. We have to relay what people are ready to hear in nice easy steps, the first being love of self and then forgiveness of self and others for example. So when Jesus taught in parables he was trying to make the higher truths simple and basic to understand, but yet it is clear from the GT that some still did not get it and Jesus got very frustrated that they could get the simplest of truth. Now people can share wonderful wisdom but from experience knowledge is not integrated until it is experienced then it becomes wisdom for the individual and their own Gnosis.

I would go further to say that Jesus imparted the truth on how to attain salvation in very simple terms but these were not included in the bible for the reasons that I have already outlined. The way of Jesus, these simple truths are now being proven by science. Then once people have achieved salvation there are higher truths which I feel Jesus taught to the few through initiations and these initiations were known by all the mystery schools at the time. For instance it is written that the Essenes did not teach anything to anyone until they had lived in the community for a couple of years for some reason they felt people had to be trusted prior to sharing the knowledge. I can understand the reasons for this, it can make people feel inferior if someone shares higher truths prior to the person understanding and integrating the basics. I know many spiritual people who learnt the top level but have not integrated the basics as such their own evolvement, wholeness and ascension as been impeded. Does that make sense?

4) It depends on the willingness and ability of the individual to understand and I do feel that Jesus could have been more direct in his teachings, I feel that some of his parables did not do his truth justice, one can be clear without displaying truth with inner meanings.

5) Nothing was left out as I have expressed above. But as Jesus said 'those that have the ears let them hear' For instance I have achieved salvation but yet people are not always open to hearing how this is possible, this forum is a clear example of this and Jesus encountered the same problem.

6) Yes in the main this is my truth but yet one cannot deny the sincerity of Jerome and others who did their best to understand and translate that which they were directed to include in the bible.

7) GOD speaks to everyone but not everyone listens. Free will is a powerful tool that GOD does not interfere with. My experience is that GOD is ALLOWING humanity to work through its own root causes of its core issues and the angelic realms are not allowed to step in unless we ask for help. As I have said before the force is with us it is how we use that force that makes the difference. So GOD allows humanity to go through the process of choosing and learning from its errors of judgement and in so doing allows it to destroy itself with its own hand. For GOD knows that the soul is eternal and this life is just one speck in the whole scheme of things, but yet human life and experience is also honoured.

8) Because human will as not been surrendered to divine will due to selfishness, animal desires, needs and emotions.

9) Well I witness the happiness in peoples lives that live the Gnosis, one could say that the whole spiritual movement in the world today is actually living this Gnosis, no matter what they call themselves and it is mainly due to this that the raising of consciousness on this planet is happening at an amazing speed, never before as humanity made such breakthroughs in my view. It matters not where you look I know muslims, christians, catholics, etc that are living at one with GOD through their own Gnosis and this is having a huge impact on the structures of the religions for the people demand there is change in line and in tune with their 21st century consciousness. One people, one planet, one heart.

To see young people live and be what it as taken me 50 years to learn makes my heart sing and soul fly!

Onwards and upwards we are ascending our planet and our people once more.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

PS no offence ever taken Lunamoth, you inspire me and my Gnosism so thank you.

Sacredstar · 02-21-2005, 03:36 PM

Dear Blue

The first step is to surrender your human will to your own divine will e.g. surrender human self to your spiritual self which is your soul. Once you have surrendered to your soul's divine plan one then is able to work hand in hand with GOD.

Deaer Faithfulservant

I used feel like you without even realising it, but last year I was told this 'you have laid your soul at our feet now pick it up and put it back' it seems that GOD is unable to work through us super effectively if our soul is laid at GOD's feet. When the soul is upright we can become ONE with GOD.

So hand in hand, side by side in the front line.

Blessings

Sacredstar

Sacredstar · 02-21-2005, 04:53 PM

PS

Dear Lunamoth

"However I don't believe that one needs some kind of secret knowledge either from other teachings or personal Revelation in the form of direct Communicatin from God or visions or what have you."

Gnosis is about realisation and awareness not revelation but revelation is the cherry on the cake for those that have achieved the realisation.

So where does realisation come from? As Jesus said in Luke

the kingdom of GOD is within you

So Jesus was teaching people to access the GOD within through realisation and the evidence of their own experience. So how can we express the evidence of that experience? By seeing GOD in everyone and everything in creation, by learning from our experiences to improve our level of being and learning from our environment and what it is trying to show us about the self.

Life is a co-creation and everything that happens provides the clues, when one embraces what the Gnostic Carl Jung tried to teach us about synchronicity life becomes plain sailing, we learn to swim like a dolphin joyously with the tide instead of against it.

Life becomes very simple it is only man that makes it complicated.

Gnostic Christians learnt from the 'evidence of their own experience' so we learn from life and everything that happens in our lives as a deeper meaning even experiencing a cold. So one could say in our simplicity we have a heigthened conscious awareness of all that IS in creation. Children are in this space but human experience and mankind take them away from their purest essence. Interesting that Jesus said that we must have the innocence of a child to enter the kingdom of heaven (love) he did not say that we had to have the wisdom of the sage.

So after all the years of travelling, learning knowledge and through his experience of integration into wisdom he came to a wonderful conclusion.

The Child

Sow the joy of innocence
the dance of the child
limitless divine love
coming from the purest of hearts
creates the Kingdom of Love

Life on planet earth is the playground where the soul can choose which apparatus to use, but yet everyone as a unique journey and this is honoured above all else.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

Sacredstar · 02-21-2005, 05:37 PM

In our view children are born with in built wisdom, old souls that are then closed down by society so what Gnosis is about, is reawakening what we already know on a soul level it is the rediscovering the 'light within' that Jesus mentions so often in the bible.

This quote says it all:

"Parents are just the guardians of the soul, a precious gem born to shine. It is the guardians responsibility to ensure that gem is not reshaped but ALLOWED to be its natural state. The problem with education is due to its existing nature of reality, it is based upon engrained judgement. This stops people engaging with the flow of the divine self (soul) and the universe"

So what materialism, literalism, science and reductionist reasoning as done is take children away from their purest essence and all the wisdom within.

E.g a child tells a teacher they can see colours, the teacher tells them they can't, the child begins to close down their third eye and separate oneself from the awareness and blessings of the soul. Many children are aware of imaginary friends and more and more children born into spiritually aware families can relay information about past lives, it is just so natural for them to express their souls.

Aspergers and autistic children are also pure love, their souls have taken precedence over the earthly self and so they do not close down in the same way but yet they feel trapped and misunderstood by society.

I met an Aspergers man that is being hounded by mental health but yet his only crime is knowing the journey of his soul, why he is here, what he must achieve and where he is from.

So one could say it is perfectly natural to live in Gnosis and it is when we don't live in conscious awareness that problems can begin to arise. There is a wonderful new magazine out called 'the new world children' these children are in tune with their souls. I also recommend a book called the 'Indigo Children' by Jan Tobin and Dan Carroll and Children's Past Lives by Carol Bowman.

Apologies for my expressing my passion I will shut up now.

Sacredstar

Faithfulservant · 02-21-2005, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

I used feel like you without even realising it, but last year I was told this 'you have laid your soul at our feet now pick it up and put it back' it seems that GOD is unable to work through us super effectively if our soul is laid at GOD's feet. When the soul is upright we can become ONE with GOD.

In this I strongly disagree.. If you look at how many times in the bible we are told to trust in God it answers this.. I also do not believe that its possible to become ONE with God.. He is in a higher place than we can ever be. We are not mini-Gods We are his creation.

Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.