The Woman by the Well

Bruce Michael · 06-24-2007, 12:51 AM

Quote:

"Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither.

The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly. "

John 4:16-18

The five husbands are the five senses, being then healed by the "living water".

Quote:

"Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw "

John 4:13-15

-Br. Bruce

Caimanson · 06-25-2007, 07:06 PM

Hi Bruce, how do you come to that conclusion?
I'm curious.

pattimax · 06-25-2007, 07:32 PM

You don't see it?!

wil · 06-25-2007, 08:24 PM

Another scripture about seperating yourself from the illusion of reality, leaving your five senses for a better way...the leper at the pools of bethesda...

Caimanson · 06-25-2007, 08:49 PM

I love this and all the other personal encounters jesus has on the book of John: nicodemus, the adulterous woman, etc.

I hear what you say wil, makes sense, I can appreciate the the added dimension to the text, thanks for that.
Though if true it is a shame it is veiled for the uninitiated, like it was an occult writing. Wonder how much of the bible is concealed this way.

pattimax · 06-25-2007, 08:59 PM

Is that what it's saying? I don't think so. The only connection to the senses is through the mind. Jesus was letting her understand who He was and what he represented and what He offered.

You can pull all kinds of wonderful, philosophical, arguments out of the bible, but I think you lose what His purpose was. Separating self is something we all need to do, but I don't think it is in this verse.

Dondi · 06-25-2007, 08:59 PM

Why can't people takes things at face value? Why must there be some "secret knowledge" to everything?
If these "husbands" are the five senses, then who is "he whom thou now hast is not thy husband"?

LeoSalinas22 · 06-25-2007, 09:18 PM

hey caimanson,

Quote:

Wonder how much of the bible is concealed this way.

how about all of it?

LeoSalinas22 · 06-25-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pattimax

You can pull all kinds of wonderful, philosophical, arguments out of the bible, but I think you lose what His purpose was. Separating self is something we all need to do, but I don't think it is in this verse.

yes, that is true, but would you agree that we have to chew our food instead of just swallow? for instance, on the "cursed for seeing your dad naked" thread, i learned that nakedness back then meant someone's wife. never, unless i would have read the scriptures explaining this, would that have been understood that way. we have to chew our food and really see how it tastes if we are to understand scripture. in other words, reading alone won't help you understand the bible. there is a certain way to read the bible, not just read it, you know?

Caimanson · 06-25-2007, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

If these "husbands" are the five senses, then who is "he whom thou now hast is not thy husband"?

The sixth sense?
Just kidding

Was just thinking, sometimes stories mean different things to different people, songs touch people in different ways...
If the husbands are literal, in what way is a metaphorical interpretation harmful if you find it beneficial?
For example wine, bread, oil, they all have second meanings in lots of places in the bible.

wil · 06-25-2007, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

Why can't people takes things at face value? Why must there be some "secret knowledge" to everything?
If these "husbands" are the five senses, then who is "he whom thou now hast is not thy husband"?

the last fellow is well worth discussing!

As to the 'secret knowledge' a lot of it wasn't so secret back then, every single place name, every persons name had a meaning, a trait, this is why Moses asked the bush what is your name, name would provide info, and not just lineage...I am that I am provided plenty! But as you read the bible she named him x because it meant y, they named the well x because it meant y.... it was common knowledge that stories meant more than the stories.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pattimax

You can pull all kinds of wonderful, philosophical, arguments out of the bible, but I think you lose what His purpose was. Separating self is something we all need to do, but I don't think it is in this verse.

Lose the purpose? I think we expand it. Yes there is the historical context, the social/societal implications, the literal translation, but then also who is telling the story and why...there are intense differences between Mathew Mark Luke and John due to the perspectives of the writers, yes and then there are deeper meanings to be contemplated and personal meanings...moments of amazing clarity that come to a scripture that apply to one's life right in this moment...

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

yes, that is true, but would you agree that we have to chew our food instead of just swallow? for instance, on the "cursed for seeing your dad naked" thread, i learned that nakedness back then meant someone's wife. never, unless i would have read the scriptures explaining this, would that have been understood that way. we have to chew our food and really see how it tastes if we are to understand scripture. in other words, reading alone won't help you understand the bible. there is a certain way to read the bible, not just read it, you know?

And again....there exists more to that story...when you pull out the meanings of the names of each of the sons, and noah, and examine the aspect of what else it could mean to be laying naked...our innermost beliefs exposed, our trust taken, our thoughts ravaged...

I don't think anyone tosses out the literal when they move into the layers...some say seven layers of meanings....I think seventy times seven...(ie infinite)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caimanson

Was just thinking, sometimes stories mean different things to different people, songs touch people in different ways...
If the husbands are literal, in what way is a metaphorical interpretation harmful if you find it beneficial?
For example wine, bread, oil, they all have second meanings in lots of places in the bible.

yessir...

pattimax · 06-25-2007, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

yes, that is true, but would you agree that we have to chew our food instead of just swallow? for instance, on the "cursed for seeing your dad naked" thread, i learned that nakedness back then meant someone's wife. never, unless i would have read the scriptures explaining this, would that have been understood that way. we have to chew our food and really see how it tastes if we are to understand scripture. in other words, reading alone won't help you understand the bible. there is a certain way to read the bible, not just read it, you know?

The gospels focused on Jesus, who He was, and what He represented.
There is a huge difference in reading the bible and understanding what it is teaching or just trying to pull out things that aren't there.

Cursed for seeing (etc.) his wifes nakedness, not watching her sweep the tent.

LeoSalinas22 · 06-25-2007, 10:06 PM

hello patti,

Quote:

The gospels focused on Jesus, who He was, and what He represented.

that is true, alot of what is in the gospels is straightforward, but when you come across a book like Revelation, what then? that is when you have to really think and pray about what you are reading.

Quote:

There is a huge difference in reading the bible and understanding what it is teaching or just trying to pull out things that aren't there.

you are right, but what if you miss something that is there. i don't know about you but it has happened more times than i can count that where i read something in the bible and then a few months later i read it again and behold, something new!

Quote:

Cursed for seeing (etc.) his wifes nakedness, not watching her sweep the tent.

watching her sweep the tent?

pattimax · 06-25-2007, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

I don't think anyone tosses out the literal when they move into the layers...some say seven layers of meanings....I think seventy times seven...(ie infinite) yessir...

People have trouble with the top layer and yet you see the need to expand it?

pattimax · 06-25-2007, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

i don't know about you but it has happened more times than i can count that where i read something in the bible and then a few months later i read it again and behold, something new!

Yes, all the time and yes, new lessons to be learned in new ways. But when you start down the slippery slope of adding things, it is hard to stop. The solution is not to start.

The tent thing was a joke. Forget it.