There is no such thing as 'Free Will'

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Azure24

Erm, wouldn't that be "Until heaven and earth pass, everything that WAS being done WAS being recorded"

Whatever uses energy... is presently recording.

[bob x]

"I'd ask you why you're here even debating, since obviously none of us that disagree can possibly agree with you (since we were predestined to disagree), but then... of course you are predestined to go on and on in this debate... "
I choose to believe in free will. But he believes in determinism, because he just can't help it.

[Thomas]

Hello Azure —

If there is no such thing as free will, then man cannot be held responsible for his actions, they are not done according to his own will, but God's will. God is the source, the cause, and in every respect the responsible agent of the action.

If man has no free will, how can he resist the will of God?

So are you telling me that God wills man to do something, and then punishes him for doing it?

Thomas

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by bob x

I choose to believe in free will.

Are you saying that you believe in your own deterministic control of self, or that you believe in someone else on the street who you do not directly control? I submit there is no faith in the former, but there is in the latter.

Originally Posted by bob x

But he believes in determinism, because he just can't help it.

Do you think those who don't see something somehow lack free will? I formerly did not see that God was effecting this world today, whereas Azure apparently does.

[bob x]

I was attempting humor, no more.

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by bob x

I was attempting humor, no more.

I got a chuckle out of it, bob. LOL

[Azure24]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

...God gives us the capacity to choose His will or not. If we choose to follow our temptations of greed, self-centeredness, anger, hatred, fear... it leads to things like famine, war, more disease, poverty.

God's will is every choice we make.

Originally Posted by path_of_one

...I'm not sure what you mean by "creating man perfect." Perfection depends on your perspective.

"perfect" in terms of the Bible means sinless or all good...
To be perfect requires suffering!

"For it became [was fitting for…] Him [Jesus], for Whom are all things, and by Whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the Captain of their salvation PERFECT through suffering" (Heb. 2:10).

"Though He [Jesus] were a Son, yet learned He obedience by the things which He SUFFERED. And being MADE perfect, He became the Author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him" (Heb. 5:8-9).

I am not your enemy path_of_one! I'm just telling people what they might have misread or not read in the Bible...

[8]If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. [9]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. [10]If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives. (John 1:8-10)

Are you blasphemus? Do you think you are God for making such a claim?

Do you believe the Bible? If you do, then you are being deceived. Everyone sins. Jesus is the only one who cannot sin! If you claim it is possible for man not to sin you therefore claim Jesus died for nothing!

Originally Posted by path_of_one

...You aren't God or Christ, or the only person who has interpreted the Bible.

Who said this? And I am not interpreting the Bible, in fact interpreting the Bible is the problem...

Originally Posted by path_of_one

...And I'm pretty sure that my perspective on time isn't the same as God's.

Of course it isn't, God MADE time!

Originally Posted by path_of_one

...God made sentient beings (humans, for example) to have the capacity to choose. If He prevented us from doing wrong, we would not have this capacity and so could not be held responsible for our actions...

I know what your saying, I sometimes find it hard to understand God.

As these are matters of the spirit, only God can ultimately help you to understand. I will, however, attempt to point you in the right direction.

We cannot force God's ways in to OUR WAYS. Yet we have all been guilty of trying to do this most of our lives.

God plainly speaks at times, and at others He speaks in mysteries. Here is a plain statement from God that explains the mysterious ones:

"For My thoughts ARE NOT your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, says the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, SO [in like manner] are My ways HIGHER than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts" (Isa. 55:8-9).

Now there IS the answer, yet we will not accept that answer because we don't understand that answer. Why then do you and most of the world have a problem with God and His operation of things, and I don't? Why do you use the "CONTRADICTION" and I don't. Is there any way to bridge this dichotomy of God's thoughts and our thoughts? Yes there is:

"Let this MIND BE IN Y-O-U, which was also in Christ Jesus..." (Phil. 2:5).

Without the mind of God, we will never understand the spiritual things of God. They will ALWAYS seem like "foolishness" to the carnal mind.

"But the natural man receives NOT the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED" (I Cor. 2:14).

As it is absolutely Scripturally true that man has no free will, and therefore is always subject to the higher powers that be, when people begin to see this truth, they often balk at it and feel that God is unfair and that man is being judged for things that God MADE HIM DO AGAINST HIS WILL. When in reality, NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH!!

Most of the human race has always believed that it possesses "free will." And so as long as any man believes this falsehood, he is operating in his own little world with absolutely no grudge against God for his personal decisions. But when he begins to see that he has no free will, he then does begin to think that he has a justifiable grudge against God for MAKING HIM SIN. He was wrong when he thought that he had free will, and he is just as wrong when he thinks that the only alternative is that God MAKES HIM SIN AGAINST HIS OWN WILL.

I have stated many times that God DOES NOT MAKE OR FORCE ANYONE TO SIN AGAINST HIS OWN WILL-- MAN DESIRES TO SIN, WANTS TO SIN, AND THEREFORE VOLUNTEERS TO SIN. God did not FORCE or MAKE Eve eat of the forbidden fruit. Her own DESIRES caused her to lust and eat of the forbidden fruit.

And so the real question is: "Does God have the right to make mankind subject to the desires of their own heart?" Think about it, as I have, for a few thousand hours, and maybe God will grant to you the spiritual understanding of this matter.

Hundreds of totally deceived and spiritually blind Christians have told me that: "God does not want robots to love Him-- He desires people to love Him by their OWN FREE WILL." Oh really? And can the carnal mind indeed love God by its own nature; its own heart; its own desires? NO IT CAN'T! And so the very thing that Christians demand as necessary for our love for God to be genuine, is the very thing that totally disqualifies it from being genuine. The natural mind is totally incapable of loving God.

L-O-V-E

It all starts with God, not with us:

"We love Him [God] because He FIRST LOVED US" (I John 4:19).

God created mankind spiritually WEAK--subject to the lusts and sins of his own heart, so that man will learn that he CANNOT love God first; he cannot obey spiritual laws and commandments; he cannot please God; he cannot accomplish anything of lasting value through his wicked and deceitful heart. (Jer. 17:9). And therefore God's ways will justify His means. The rewards and the blessings are not even to be compared with the glory that God is creating in the human race (Rom. 8:18).

BEFORE spiritual conversion man FALSELY THINKS that he has free will and is for all intent and purpose a god unto himself.

AFTER spiritual conversion man will be eternally thankful that God never gave his such a foolish concept as "free will," or he would never ever realize the marvelous highest of power and glory that God has in mind for him.

And presently, you and some few others, are in between these two extremes of human understanding. I will pray for God to grant to you "spirit of wisdom" so that you will comprehend and apprehend the marvelous and mysterious working of our God.

Originally Posted by path_of_one

Again, you're putting God into the same experience of time you have. I suggest you pick up "Einstein's Dreams"- a fascinating little novel- and get a physicist's perspective on all the ways time could be conceived of to work. This might help open up your perspective on what time may be like for a non-human being. Time is not linear.

You're telling me to read this Book to understand God? No thanks in terms of God I need only one...

Originally Posted by path_of_one

...I don't think God failed at anything. God is not responsible for our bad choices, since He gave us everything we need to make good choices.

Tell me this, if we all (becasue WE ALL) make bad choices, does this mean we are capable of making choices for ourselves?

Originally Posted by path_of_one

I suppose you view him in the orthodox way as an anti-god. I happen to think that is a warped way of interpreting a being that was quite different in Judaism, and therefore in early Christianity.

Read my last post ALL over again! You would realise I was being sarcastic... Didn't I start the thread "Hell is a hoax"?

Originally Posted by path_of_one

I don't read Revelation literally as a divination of the future, no. Even if one did, it requires a ton of interpretation and I've heard dozens and dozens of different interpretations. So obviously no one has a real handle on its true meaning.

You believe there is no divinitive future. Believe what you want, but Revelation is not the only book of the future. In fact the title suggests the truth being revealed (to everyone) and if this was the past does everyone know the truth? Ask me a question you do not understand in Revelation and I will give my best answer (mind, it is a book of signs and most of it is not literal but its message is the same).

Originally Posted by path_of_one

...the capacity to choose goodness and to love, and God is Love. Basically, my experience of God is that He gives grace freely, and is always waiting with His arms open for us to embrace Him.

again unscriptual...When man eats from the tree of knowledge God says we have knowledge of good and evil who said anything about choosing...

Originally Posted by path_of_one

...We choose what we choose for as long as we choose it. God gave us the example of Jesus as a Divine life, of what humanity should aspire to be- completely loving, completely just.

Quotes? Again, you're just saying your opinion...Which makes it meaningless.

Originally Posted by path_of_one

believe God waits for us indefinitely, but He will not force us (choose for us, cause us) to come to Him. We do this when we choose to. My suspicion is that eventually we all choose to. But I am not God, so I don't really know.

Originally Posted by Azure24

In fact read below C-A-R-E-F-U-L-L-Y, Corinthians 15:22-28 tells us the ORDER in which EVERYONE! YES! EVEN HITLER!! Will live to together with God!!

"22For as in Adam ALL die, so in Christ ALL will be made alive[this eventually happens in the end]. 23But each in his own turn[this will NOT happen immediately BUT in TURNS]: Christ[is first], the firstfruits; then[next], when he comes, those who belong to him[the rightous/his followers are second]. 24Then the end will come[the end of Christ's reign with all the rightous lasting an EONIAN (Mostly 9 out of 10 times, the word "Eternal" is wrongly translated from the Greek word for eonian/age-abiding life )], when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all[I hardly doubt the Bible means "a few", but instead ALL]".

[Azure24]

Originally Posted by Thomas

So are you telling me that God wills man to do something, and then punishes him for doing it?

You're starting to insult me. WHO said punish?

[Azure24]

Hi all,

bob x do you want humour?

I just though of something really funny! LOL

Just imagine how embrassing it would be to God, if Jesus one day thought to himself "Stuff this, I don't want to die for anyone, especially these people, i'm off..."

Man, God sure was lucky he didn't!!!

[Azure24]

Anyway path_of_one If God does not know the future how did Jesus know Judas would portray him? how did he know Peter would deny him three times (with such accuracy "three times?"). How did it become prophesized, that the Messiah would come? Everything has a purpose! And everything is God's purpose!

Revelation has many symbols to do with the sea. You know why? The sea represents everyone!

"And when He was entered into a ship, His disciples followed Him. And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was COVERED WITH THE WAVES [‘and the waves beat into the ship, so that it was already filling, Mk 4:37]: but He was asleep. And His disciple came to Him, and awoke Him, saying Lord, save us: WE PERISH. And He said unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then He arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea: and there was a great calm. But the men marveled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him!" (Matt. 8:23-27).

"The WATERS which you saw, where the whore sits, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

What is the final outcome of a humanity that is likened to, "Raging Waves of the Sea?" Will they spew out their raging foam of hatred and wickedness forever? No, certainly not. There is a cure for every disease, a solution to every problem, a Saviour for every lost soul. The "raging waves of the sea" are not match for Him Who walks on water.

"And He arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, PEACE, BE STILL. And the wind ceased, and there was a GREAT CALM. And He said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? How is it that ye have no faith? [How is it that Christendom has NO FAITH?] And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of Man is this, that even the WIND AND THE SEA OBEY HIM?" (Mark 4:39-41).

Has Jesus lost His touch? Do we think that Jesus no longer can make "the wind and the sea OBEY Him?"

"And the SEA gave up the dead [spiritually dead] which were in it [these spiritually dead are also called, "raging waves of the sea" who are "foaming out their own shame" Jude 13] …and they were judged every man according to their works… And whosoever was not found in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:13 & 15).

Will these wicked "raging waves of the sea" continue foaming out their or shame for ALL ETERNITY, in a place of eternal torture? Or will Jesus once again walk on the waters and cause a "GREAT CALM" to come over all humanity?

USE YOUR EYES!!!

[Dondi]

I believe in God's permissive will. Don't believe me? Well, we only have to look in the book of Job.

"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD." - Job 1:6-12

Now if anyone cannot see that this was a test of Job's faithfulness, then you are blind. What is amazing to me is that God has given Satan permission to cause havoc to Job...but with the condition that Job remain unharmed. So you see that Satan had free reign to do what he wanted as long as that condition was meant. That's God's permissive will.

Of course, we know that Satan's ploy didn't work..that time. For Job stayed blameless and did not sin.

So now another ploy of Satan was put into effect:

"Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown." - Job 2:1-7

Again, God give Satan permission to do with Job as he pleases, only spare his life. But whats even more amazing is the statement: "and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause." Who is moving who? Well, it is obvious that Satan is moving God against Job. Seems that the influence is backwards, don't it? Why? Is it possible for created beings to change the will of God?

What about Moses? In Exodus 32, was not God intent on destroying the Israelites for their idolatry?

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.
And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?
Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.
Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever. And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people." - Exodus 32:7-14

Clearly, Moses' intercession changed God's mind. Moses' influence saved the Israelites.

But going back to Job, we see that he was highly influenced by his circunstances and even his wife bode him to "curse God and die." But did Job heed to those influences. Why instead did he say, "Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips."

Why didn't Job sin? He had every reason to do so, for God was the cause of the evil that befell him. Do you suppose it had something to do with the relationship he had with God?

[Thomas]

If one is talking about free will within a Christian context, one is obliged to at least consider such notions as 'love' and the meaning of 'freedom' itself.

Thomas

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by bob x

I was attempting humor, no more.

If a person has free will, and they don't laugh at the attempt, is it their fault?

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by Azure24

God's will is every choice we make.

OK. I don't make the claim that I know what God's will is in this sense. Led by the Spirit, I can discern God's will in my own life- what choices I should make, and I follow that most of the time, and when I do not, I repent.

I don't claim to know God's will for other people. Nor do I say my own bad choices are God's will.

When I make a bad choice, I know I'm making the wrong decision as I am doing it. So, I repent and work toward doing better the next time. If God is actually making my bad choices for me (i.e., it is God's will that I make bad choices), then I don't understand what the value of repentence is, since clearly I would not make a good choice until God willed that. Basically, it makes repenting nonsensical.

"perfect" in terms of the Bible means sinless or all good...
To be perfect requires suffering!

OK. I don't know where you're going with this. Christ saved us through His suffering and sacrifice. We are made perfect in Christ. Jesus calls us to be perfect, even as our Father is perfect (Matthew 5:48).

We all suffer. This suffering can be used to draw closer to God and to better understand what Jesus went through. Suffering also increases our compassion for others. We are called by Jesus to help others and relieve suffering (Matthew 25:31-46).

As an aside, I personally would find it much easier to read the passages you quote without all the formatting. I do not need notes about which parts should be emphasized; I am capable of reading on my own.

I am not your enemy path_of_one!

Of course you're not. I don't have any enemies. I have people I disagree with, but I love them just the same.

I'm just telling people what they might have misread or not read in the Bible...

The discussion is admirable and lively. I think what may be difficult is that you are "telling" people rather than conversing with them. Conversation or dialogue is give and take, acknowledging that others may have things for you to learn as well as you having things to teach. Most of us have reasons for believing as we do, and in the exchange of these discussions, we are able to see new points of view, which we may or may not agree with.

John 1:8-10

I'm not saying I'm without sin. I'm saying Jesus called us to be perfect, so it is logical to me that someone could live without sin. I sin sometimes and so I confess them.

Though I would contest that salvation is dependent on confession of sin. After all, Jesus said "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do." He said this of people who did not recognize their own sin.

Are you blasphemus?

I don't think so. If I was, I would be convicted of such in my heart, because I ask God to be with me always and to guide my life with the Spirit, and we are promised that if we genuinely seek, God will be with us (Matthew 7:8-10).

You might think I'm blasphemous. But then, I'm not concerned with what other people think of me. I'm concerned with whether or not I feel that I am following God's will and guidance.

Do you think you are God for making such a claim?

Obviously, I do not think I am God. Not sure what claim you refer to.

Do you believe the Bible?

I think the Bible is the sacred text that was inspired by God. The Bible is an account of God's revelations over time, but God's capacity for personal revelation did not end with the Bible. God speaks to each of us through the Holy Spirit. The Bible takes inspiration from the Spirit to interpret, and if we are open to this guidance, we are given what we need when we need it.

It might help you to know that I'm more or less Quaker. That may give you some insight into how I view a lot of these issues.

[path_of_one]

If you do, then you are being deceived.

Matthew 7:1-3. It is not up to you to determine if I am deceived. I ask for God's guidance and try to follow it. If I am currently deceived in some matter (I certainly think I don't have all the answers, but I wouldn't call my current ideas deceptions, just incomplete- a work in progress), God will rectify it when He feels it is the right time.

Everyone sins. Jesus is the only one who cannot sin! If you claim it is possible for man not to sin you therefore claim Jesus died for nothing!

No, I don't. I claim Jesus died so that we could be without sin. Christ and salvation through grace is what makes it possible for humans to avoid sin.

And I am not interpreting the Bible, in fact interpreting the Bible is the problem...

We all interpret the Bible. Otherwise, passages like Matthew 7:3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" would mean we literally should not look for sawdust in each other's eyes and we should find specks of wood in our own eye.

Of course it isn't, God MADE time!

No, humans have lots of different ideas of time- linear, circular, etc. God made the universe what it is, but time (as in linear- past/present/future, 365 days in a year and all that) is a human concept to measure the universe. There are many ways to measure time and to think about it, and most have little to do with how time probably actually works according to physics. In fact, time and cause/effect work entirely differently in the world of tiny subatomic particles than they do in our visible world. There is a lot of complexity to it all.

I know what your saying, I sometimes find it hard to understand God.

Doesn't everyone? I choose to say I experience God. I don't understand Him. I'm just too little- like an ant experiencing the Sun. But I'm grateful to experience Him.

As these are matters of the spirit, only God can ultimately help you to understand. I will, however, attempt to point you in the right direction.

Thanks for the dialogue, but I don't trust any person to tell me what the right direction is, to be honest. I read the Bible and I pray and I wait for God's guidance. Over time, He has taught me to be patient about receiving answers, and that He reveals a little bit at a time to me. It is safest to simply wait on Him.

We cannot force God's ways in to OUR WAYS. Yet we have all been guilty of trying to do this most of our lives.

Of course, we can't force God to do anything. He's God. I don't claim, though, to know what other people do in their life. Maybe they try that, and maybe they don't. I only know my own heart inside and out, and even then God knows me better than I know myself.

God plainly speaks at times, and at others He speaks in mysteries.

Indeed. I've learned to embrace the mystery. I think He speaks plainly in the matters of what to immediately do (i.e., feed people, love people, clothe people, care for the widow and the orphan). I think He speaks in mysteries with regard to Himself. Which is fitting, at least to me. I can worship God, love God, experience God without understanding Him or nailing down the details. But it helps immensely to be given specific instruction about what is important in a human life.

(Isa. 55:8-9).

Absolutely. My view exactly.

Although it begs the question, if our ways are not His ways, and we do not have free will... then wouldn't our ways be His ways? What I mean is that if God's will is whatever our choice is at any given time, then how can His way be different from our way?

Now there IS the answer, yet we will not accept that answer because we don't understand that answer. Why then do you and most of the world have a problem with God and His operation of things, and I don't? Why do you use the "CONTRADICTION" and I don't.

Well, I accept the answer, just not your interpretation of it. I have no problem with the Biblical passage above whatsoever. It just doesn't make sense unless we have our ways and God has His.

I don't have a problem with God or His operation of things. I don't see it as a contradiction. Yet I believe in free will. So I'm not sure why I have those problems or assumptions.

Without the mind of God, we will never understand the spiritual things of God. They will ALWAYS seem like "foolishness" to the carnal mind.

Nothing about God seems foolish to me. A great deal is mysterious. But that's OK with me. I love God anyway. Maybe my spirituality is just a really simple one, like a little kid. It's all very simple to me- worship and love God, and don't worry about understanding it all. Just have faith and trust. Love others and serve them, because that is what is right.

God gives us the capacity to do both of these things. So I do them.

In the end, if you are right and I do them because God wills that I do them, it really doesn't make any difference whether or not I thought I did them because I chose to do so. Either way, I think it is by grace that we are able to do these things.

It is not for the sake of absolute correctness I argue for free will, but rather because an argument against free will excuses people from their bad choices. People would use such an argument to avoid doing good, claiming that God's will was that they would do bad. I'm sure you do not think this is a correct attitude, but it would happen nonetheless. People should not abdicate their responsibility for their own choices. We already have enough problems with people blaming Satan, society, their upbringing, etc. for all their bad decisions. People should be encouraged to rise above and claim what has already been given through grace- salvation, and through salvation, a profound transformation in themselves.

(I Cor. 2:14).

As it is absolutely Scripturally true that man has no free will,

Says you. It is also scripturally true that human beings have the capacity to choose good over bad/evil. Take a look at Job.

Maybe you distinguish between free will and free choice, but to me free will means the ability to choose and to be responsible for one's choice.