These verses from the bible really anoy me. - Page 2

Rouge47 · 08-25-2005, 10:52 PM

Wow, this is an interesting thread. I'll continue to see where it leads.

Paul

dauer · 08-26-2005, 12:56 AM

Hello.

I don't think I'm the Dauer you wanted, but I have answered your call. <trumpets play>

The first issue, what seems likely is that the young ladies, the girls, were being taken as spoils of war and the older women were assumed to have been defiled. It's possible there's another reason, but as far as the original meaning of the text I'd rather call a spade a spade.

Second issue, it seems to be slavery in quran vs tanach (OT) so I'll touch that. Quran was written at a later time and some of its positions are thus more progressive. But both the Quran and Tanach should, imnsho, be understood on one hand in the context of the society that created them.

Third, not sure what the issue is.

Shalom u'vracha.

Dauer

Quahom1 · 08-26-2005, 02:06 AM

You are the "Dauer", and thank you for responding.

v/r

Q

AbdAlRahman · 08-26-2005, 11:39 AM

Yes thank you for your answer ,

I got another verse :

"`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

"How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

so , does that mean that the bible is corrupted ?

AbdAlRahman · 08-26-2005, 11:44 AM

One of the Bible's 10 basic Pillars, the ten commandments, says: "Thou shalt not kill. (Exodus 20:13)." Yet, we see GOD Almighty Commanding His servants to not only kill the enemy's men, but also the innocent children and non-virgin women who have not done anything to anyone:

1 Samuel 15:2-4
2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
4 And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah.

"Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. (Numbers 31:17-18)"

Faithfulservant · 08-26-2005, 11:52 AM

I wonder what would happen if one of us were to go to the Islam board saying that verses in the Q'uran annoyed us and set out trying to prove its fallacy? You asked a question.. it was answered please show respect and accept that answer as is.

I have personal beliefs as to why God ordered the death of these people.. would everyone agree with me? probably not but it answers the questions that I have. Thats the thing... we search for answers with prayer, meditation of the word, and wait for God to answer us.. If we disbelieved the bible because we didnt understand something then what kind of faith would that be.

Faithfulservant · 08-26-2005, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbdAlRahman

Yes thank you for your answer ,

I got another verse :

"`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

"How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

so , does that mean that the bible is corrupted ?

Is English your first language? These both mean the same thing.

AbdAlRahman · 08-26-2005, 12:02 PM

Well im not trying to do anything here , i read the bible and found some verses i understand in a way that would lead into the bible being currupted , but i wasent sure so i posted here for my nolage for me to understand the bible thats it , coes some muslims say bible is curropted some say its not , so i want to see wich side should i be , thats it.

AbdAlRahman · 08-26-2005, 12:05 PM

Yeah i know there the same thing onyl there from difrent bibles,

Faithfulservant · 08-26-2005, 12:11 PM

Let me point out a couple things.. #1 God is God.. we do not judge ourselves or our actions against His judgements or actions.. He is GOD we are His children. We do not question what He does and say "but God.. you did it why cant I?"

His will is perfect.. His way is perfect and who are any of us to question Him? We certainly can ask Him for understanding... Which He gives when asked.

Do you know the word nephilim?

Faithfulservant · 08-26-2005, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbdAlRahman

Yeah i know there the same thing onyl there from difrent bibles,

English is a very diverse language.. you can say the same thing many different ways. Just because two different bibles say things differently but say the same thing does not justify calling it corrupt.

AbdAlRahman · 08-26-2005, 12:25 PM

Lol , no , it is whats in the verses , whats written in the verses .

Look at the bold text and youll see

Awaiting_the_fifth · 08-26-2005, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

I wonder what would happen if one of us were to go to the Islam board saying that verses in the Q'uran annoyed us

The Islam section has many such threads, and most of the Islamic members try to answer the questions quite amiably

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbdAlRahman

"`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

"How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Just because two different bibles say things differently but say the same thing does not justify calling it corrupt.

It is the verse itself which suggests corruption of the bible, not the different versions.

Dor · 08-26-2005, 12:44 PM

Ok I'm going to give you the same quotes I read about that verse that made me understand it somewhat.

Jer 8:8 How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.(KJV)

Jer 8:8 - How do ye say, we are wise,.... Which they were continually boasting of, though they were ignorant of the judgment of the Lord, and were more stupid than the stork, turtle, crane, and swallow:
and the law of the Lord is with us? this was the foundation of their boast, because the law was given to them, and not to the nations of the world, which knew not God, and therefore they must be a wise and understanding people;
Lo, certainly in vain made he it; either the law, which was made or given in vain by the Lord to this people, since they made no better use of it, and valued themselves upon having it, without acting according to it;
the pen of the scribes is in vain; in vain, and to no purpose, were the scribes employed in writing out copies of the law, when either it was not heard or read, or however the things it enjoined were not put in practice;(John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible)

Faithfulservant · 08-26-2005, 12:54 PM

"`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

"How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

Ok I think I understand now... rather than saying its corrupt because they are worded differently you are saying its corrupt because The Jewish scribes have made the law into a lie.. maybe you should pose this one on the Judiasm board. They have a better understanding of the original text.