Thoughts on the Gospel of Thomas

[Shih Yo Chi]

I've been looking at the works from the Nag Hammadi and the Gospel of Thomas is very striking in it's parallels and contradictions to the New Testament Gospels. I would be really interested in your thoughts on it. Many of the verses contained in the Gospel of Thomas speak to me and seem to fit more with my perception of Jesus. Any thoughts or insights would be appreciated.

Here is a URL to the text: http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl_thomas.htm

[I, Brian]

*frowns somewhat*

We have the largest collection of Christian Apocrypha on the internet, not least a wealth of Thomas forms:

From: http://www.comparative-religion.com/...ypha-specific/

3.12 - Thomas -

3.12.1 Acts of Thomas
3.12.2 Apocalypse of Thomas
3.12.3 Book of Thomas the Contender
3.12.4 Consumation of Thomas
3.12.5 Gospel of Thomas

Plus from:

http://www.comparative-religion.com/...t-apocrypha/5/


5. Infancy Gospels apocrypha

...
5.4 Infancy Gospel of Thomas - Greek A
5.5 Infancy Gospel of Thomas - Greek B
5.6 Infancy Gospel of Thomas - Latin


Just so you know now.

[Shih Yo Chi]

My sincerest apologies. I didn't realize the texts were here as well. My bad. Sometimes I don't see things right under my nose.

[I, Brian]

No problem.

As I said elsewhere, it's good to be able to remind members and visitors here that we actually host the largest online collection of New Testament Apocrypha on the internet.

[Avinash]

Originally Posted by Shih Yo Chi

I've been looking at the works from the Nag Hammadi and the Gospel of Thomas is very striking in it's parallels and contradictions to the New Testament Gospels. I would be really interested in your thoughts on it. Many of the verses contained in the Gospel of Thomas speak to me and seem to fit more with my perception of Jesus. Any thoughts or insights would be appreciated.

Although I find Thomas interesting as an alternative example of the genre of the old lost Q-gospel, the oldest core of the sayings in Q (the words of Jesus as they ended up mainly in Matthew and Luke) is itself far more interesting and rich in content than the gospel of Thomas is.

[I, Brian]

Just to let you know I've edited the links in the earlier post - they should now work.

As for Q - that is an entirely specualtive work, isn't it?

[Avinash]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Just to let you know I've edited the links in the earlier post - they should now work.
As for Q - that is an entirely speculative work, isn't it?

Yes, although it is quite widely accepted as having existed. Even the Vatican mentions it as the gospel that was used with Mark for creating Matthew and Luke. A team of scholars has made a reconstruction (in Koine Greek).

It is mostly fundamentalist Christians who deny that Q ever existed. If you accept the priority of Mark and that the authors of Matthew and Luke didn't have a copy of each others gospel, then the striking matches between the sayings (that do not come from Mark) point to a common second source called Q.

[Mus Zibii]

Comparative-religion.com has the BEST Christian apocrypha on the net.

Anyway, the first time I read the Gospel of Thomas I was blown away. But now its heavy gnostic elements annoy me. The worst of which are few, and I don't find it any more out of character than the canon.

Like Shih Yo Chi, I read the first lines and felt for the first time ever that something was speaking directly to me. Now that's good apocrypha.

[syzygy]

Until I read "split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there." in the Gospel of Thomas I had found no references to the state of mind I was in during my original religious conversion experience. Three full days of non-stop synchronicity experiences, one right after the other, and all of them bearing religious meanings. I literally could not look at anything without an immediate connection forming in my mind relating everything to God or the Spirit of Christ. A split piece of wood meant the Cross. The stone uncovered showed Jesus gone, the stone picked up to kill the adulteress whom Jesus saved, the cornerstone that was rejected, the millstone tied around the neck of those who would harm children.

Other Thomas sayings also bear witness of a remarkable mind but one couched in Jewish lore, e.g., "For there are five trees for you in Paradise which remain undisturbed summer and winter and whose leaves do not fall. Whoever becomes acquainted with them will not experience death." i.e., the five books of Moses and/or a reference to Yeshu ben Pantera, the historical Jesus's five disciples. Here is another Thomas reference that points to the
Talmudic Yeshu's story as ******* son of Joseph Pantera and adulteress Miriam: "Jesus said, 'He who knows the father and the mother will be called the son of a harlot."

[Mus Zibii]

Sounds like my thoughts. There's a website set up by Peter Kirby that allows comments on the individual verses. Its amazing how it speaks to people.

http://www.gospelthomas.com/

He who seeks, let him not cease seeking until he finds; and when he finds he will be troubled, and when he is troubled he will be amazed, and he will reign over all.

[I, Brian]

I'm curious about the origin/meaning of the name/word "Pantera" with Joseph. Isn't this the Latin for "Panther"?? And why would Joseph have what would appear to be a surname rather than a "son of" birth name?? Apologies for my ignorance, but any information on this would be very welcome.

[Mus Zibii]

BarPanthera actually shows up in the geneology of Mary in John of Damascus' Do Orthod. Fide. So it might just be understood as a shortening of a 'born of' surname.

Its Greek for Panther and the reasoning I've heard is that it was a reference to the cult of Dionysius (the god/guy who turned water into wine). It was an animal venerated by the Bacchus followers.

There's also the theory that it was a corrupt-Aramaic form of parthenos which is Greek for virgin.