Time/Space, What is That Like?

[Pathless]

Thanks Q for the scientific engineering perspective!

I like this idea of being in phase, and the increase in power that that brings. It makes me think about something maybe not totally unrelated that is happening over the next couple of days. Many "shamans" are gathering at Lake Titicaca in Peru for the Spring Equinox to chant, sing, drum, pray, and just basically do a ginormous ritual for progressive and creative peace. Throughout the world as well, many people are gathering over the next few days to perform rituals, discuss issues, network, and such. So it is a synchronized activity. We could dress it up in the language of phases, as well, couldn't we, and say that all of these human beings are "in phase" with one another in their intentions. There are groups of them dispersed throughout the globe, in different spaces. Harmonic Resonance?

Can we extend our concept of "in phase" to include humanity? I suppose so, that's how the walls of Jericho were supposed to have fallen. We need great creativity now, geared towards love and cooperation. There's enough destruction and falling bombs blowing up walls without people consciously trying to be in phase with it!

[Ciel]

Q,

It may surprize you that I understand completely and agree.

Thank you for the dissertation.

- c -

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Pathless

Oh and....



What's the difference? Semantics?

Hi,

No not semantics. It is possible that there is such a thing as time, if "only" as a psychological construct, but it does not necessarily follow from this, that it is something that is actually divisible into three separates: past, present and future.

s.

[Pathless]

Okay, I think I am starting to follow, but may need some more hand-holding on this concept. Just 'cuz, you know, that's what has been ingrained in us about time: past, present, future. If time is not that--or is more than that--what are we talking about? Is it a substance, a property, a figment of our imagination?

I finished reading a book recently that mentioned in passing that time might be more "solid" than we are aware of. Because we are within it, we are blind to its concrete essence, if you will. So could time be conceptualized as some kind of sphere, with different paths wound up inside it? Maybe something super-dense, like the core of a tennis ball? If some consciousness exists outside of this "timesphere," how different would it be from our familiar human consciousness? Woud it be totally free of the constraints of time, or being outside the "timesphere," would it be subject to a more grandiose meta-time? One in which light years could be passed in seconds, and in which human history is the space of an inhalation?

Hmmmm.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Pathless

Okay, I think I am starting to follow, but may need some more hand-holding on this concept. Just 'cuz, you know, that's what has been ingrained in us about time: past, present, future. If time is not that--or is more than that--what are we talking about? Is it a substance, a property, a figment of our imagination?

Hi,

My, you’re in trouble if you’re thinking I can hand-hold you through this!

I can only contribute my own thoughts and perceptions, typed in a garbled way and inextricably mixed with scientific gobbledygook and philosophical musings.

There seems to be a great deal of wild scientific theorising on these areas. By wild, I mean difficult if not impossible for mere mortals to comprehend. For instance, if 3 (or 4) dimensions is not enough for you, how about 10 or 11 ?!

M-theory, the theory formerly known as Strings

"The basic oneness of the universe is not only the central characteristic of the mystical experience, but is also one of the most important revelations of modern physics. .... As we study the various models of subatomic physics we shall see that they express again and again, in different ways, the same insight--that the constituents of matter and the basic phenomena involving them are all interconnected, interrelated and interdependent; that they cannot be understood as isolated entities, but only as integrated parts of the whole."
In his 1967 book "The Three Pillars of Zen," Philip Kapleau Roshi wrote these words before presenting a short section from Zen Master Dogen’s Shobogenzo on “Being-Time”:
"Dogen’s Insights as to time and being, realized by him introspectively in the 13th century through zazen, and the views of certain contemporary micro- and macro-physicists on time and space, arrived at by them through the principles and methods of science, parallel each other to a remarkable degree. The difference, however, and a deeply significant one, is in the effect these insights had upon these men. Dogen’s realization, being a Self-discovery, liberated him from the basic anxieties of human existence, bringing him inner freedom and peace and deep moral certainty. But, as far as can be seen at this time, no such inner evolution has followed in the wake of these scientific discoveries."

The Elegant Universe: A Review

Time can therefore be viewed as “part and parcel” of the universe, the continual process of change in the phenomena of the universe (anicca). But maybe there is “only” ever NOW, the past is just our memories of the Now that has happened and the future is our fantasies/fears/thoughts about what may happen when the current Now has occurred. The past and future therefore only exist in our minds; the present is where the universe is really at, man, (and all the time!) (which is why it is the only place to live. If your mind is in the past or the future, you are the living dead)
My small mind has enough difficulty grappling with the writings of Dogen (intermittently) on the subject/s. I think the quote in post #5 is as clear as such a slippery thing can be put into words.

So the universe and time are seen by Dogen as a fundamental unity: “existence-time” or “uji”. All phenomena exist as temporal manifestations.

“Mountains are also time; oceans are time as well. If they were not, there would be neither mountains nor oceans.”

“Existence-time is realised in the present. Its concrete realisation takes place in the present moment; hence, an analysis of this is fundamental to all other aspects of the problem of time. As Dogen asked: Is any existence or any world excluded from this present moment? The present time under consideration is each individual’s realised now. Even though it makes you think of the past, present, and future, and tens of thousands of other times, they are the present time, realised now.”

- Eihei Dogen: Mystical Realist. –by Hee-Jin Kim.

OK, now I do need a coffee.

s.

[flowperson]

Q:

Excellent rundown on the phase change nature of alternative energy/mechanical realities. It's also interesting to note that electrical and mechanical engineers utilize theories and mathematical applications that routinely deal in six dimensional realities.That's been going on since a guy named Tesla invented alternating current theories and inventions in the latter half of the 1800's.

I still go with the notion accepted by many cosmologists and physicists of space/time being an undividable fabric that is warped and twisted by gravitational force into dimensions that are mostly incomprehensible. But theoretically it is conceptually possible for energies to jump form one place to others on the continuum. For instance neutrinos do it all the time and are transformable into photons.

Here's an excellent website that will provide any of you with endless amounts of information about this stuff if you're interested. It's mostly about a scientist named Thomas Townsend Brown who did much of the original applications research on time, electricity, and gravitics and their nature in the 20th century. It has been mostly hidden from us but is now beginning to come to light.

flow....

http://www.ttbrown.com

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by flowperson

Q:

Excellent rundown on the phase change nature of alternative energy/mechanical realities. It's also interesting to note that electrical and mechanical engineers utilize theories and mathematical applications that routinely deal in six dimensional realities.That's been going on since a guy named Tesla invented alternating current theories and inventions in the latter half of the 1800's.

I still go with the notion accepted by many cosmologists and physicists of space/time being an undividable fabric that is warped and twisted by gravitational force into dimensions that are mostly incomprehensible. But theoretically it is conceptually possible for energies to jump form one place to others on the continuum. For instance neutrinos do it all the time and are transformable into photons.

Here's an excellent website that will provide any of you with endless amounts of information about this stuff if you're interested. It's mostly about a scientist named Thomas Townsend Brown who did much of the original applications research on time, electricity, and gravitics and their nature in the 20th century. It has been mostly hidden from us but is now beginning to come to light.

flow....

TTBrown

Hmmm, maybe I'n not weird after all, and you should see what I can do with a sine wave constant current High fequency submerged arc welding machine, but don't try running two of them at once on the same piece of metal...

[flowperson]

Q:

No...not wierd. Just another competent, believing, seeking, nutcase as we all are.

flow....

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Pathless

"
Is it possible to reality-shift? I suppose that quantum physics points to this somewhat, and that is interesting and all--particle/wave, wave/particle--yet I am more intuitive than scientific.

It was intuition/inspiration built layer upon layer by a progression of scientists that give us the theories we now contemplate in turn. Intuition is perhaps the most important faculty of the human mind.

It could well be that the whole multiverse is a single point of energy vibrating so fast as to be everywhere in every time in every dimension, (as some will know I side with the multi-dimensionalists), apparently simulatneously. I think we all have the sense of being a part of something much much bigger, maybe that something is infinitely smaller but so fast as to give the illusion of being massive. That everything is you and you are everything. At your current point of vibration you are concerned with being in harmony, or in phase, with where you have been and where you will be, though in the super-reality these points are so close together as to be inseparable. Of course this implies that you are me and I am you and so on and so on down to every last particle in the multiverse. But sometimes you have some sense of where you are and will be, and have some sense of who someone else is and will be. Because you, after all, are also them...and sometimes you are even a dustmite, an armadillo, amonia vapour on Jupiter, a photon leaving some distant quazar......

Yet even if we could prove that idea fact what would we do? Of course we would ask what created this super-particle, are there more of them, what is the greater space they exist in composed of. Dont you just love infinity!!

TE

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

It was intuition/inspiration built layer upon layer by a progression of scientists that give us the theories we now contemplate in turn. Intuition is perhaps the most important faculty of the human mind.

It could well be that the whole multiverse is a single point of energy vibrating so fast as to be everywhere in every time in every dimension, (as some will know I side with the multi-dimensionalists), apparently simulatneously...TE

There are those that consider a singularity, as the pre-cursor to a "Big Bang". Afterall, with all that energy being absorbed, eventually it has to go somewhere...

v/r

Joshua

[Tao_Equus]

I agree with that Q.

I think the current sway is toward the idea that a singularity absorbs energy then ejects it. Like its belching huge jets of matter to release some of the pressure contained within. There is now substantial radio telescope data to support this as a fact, at least for the variety of black hole found at galactic cores and which we call 'supermassive'. See link: Supermassive Black Holes

To me, my intuition, unsuportable by any evidence, black holes do not only eject from where they are positioned in space/time but are each the creator of a new universe in a folded dimension unobserveable by us. Not an original idea by any means but my gut instinct is that its right. And I had that gut instinct 30 years ago too when I was first learning about our vast universe and the physics that govern it. It is possible that the created universe is like ours, but maybe its not, my intuition dont stretch that far. But since its ejecting the 'stuff' its absorbing, and I believe that this stuff is saturated with the coding for life, well I will leave it to your own imagination...

I think creation is the pervasive constant, that each creation give the idea of what could also be created and so it is... and so on and so on and so on. Like Douglas Adams said about probability, if you can think it it is, somewhere, happening.

Its also why I have little time for organised religions. God, the creator, the designer, the programer, well that entity is just far too massive to be contained or understood in some book we can write. And all the extant books dont even come close to begining to understand Gods what He does best. Create. Yeh the Bible begins with Genesis, but after that the point is lost and it all becomes selfishly about man. But thats because it a book written by men about men.

I'l stop now. I 'm on my 3'rd glass of a particularly fine cabarnet sauvignon and I dont want to end up offending anyone when I'm feeling so fine

Regards

TE

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I agree with that Q.

TE

Oh oh OH, be still my heart! We agree on something! lol

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Oh oh OH, be still my heart! We agree on something! lol

See!! , if its possible it happens somwhere sometime

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

See!! , if its possible it happens somwhere sometime

F.M. Busby "all these earths" and Robert Heinlein "have space suit, will travel"

[Tao_Equus]

lol....Last time I posted after this much to drink I ended up having 2 posts deleted and led to a 10 month absence of emabarresment...

Have vino...will travel