Trinity

[Joedjr]

Hi Quahom1

Originally Posted by Quahom1

No, Mee does not. Mee has an agenda. Mee has a goal and a mission to accomplish. Mee does not have a point concerning the trinity, because Mee refuses to look at anything but "Watch Tower Tract". Mee is becoming offensive to the majority of Christians, who do believe in the trinity of God. v/r
Q

Yep, seems Mee is out selling the doctrine of the JW. Get's a little old at times. But from where I sit, the bible has precious little evidence to support trinitarianism. I happen to think the last few posts from Mee were spot on.
If you would like to supply some bible reading to support your claims, I would be happy to read them
Joe

[Joedjr]

Hi Thomas,

Originally Posted by Thomas

John 14:16
"And I will ask the Father: and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever"

John 15:26
"But when the Paraclete cometh, whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceedeth from the Father, he shall give testimony of me."

I see the action here comes from the Father, I don't think I've said that the Son doesn't work with the Father.

Only in a Trinitarian doctrine can the contradictions of Jesus' words be reconciled to reason

Hmm.............

... and again, if sins against the Father are forgiven (witness the Salvation History of the Jews) ... and sins against the Son are forgiven ... then why are sins against the Holy Spirit not forgiven — is the Holy Spirit superior to the Father, or more intransigent ... and how can that which is sent by God be more unforgiving than the God who sent it?
Thomas

Webster's shows that the 2 words, blasphemy and sin have different meanings.

Joe

[Thomas]

It might be an idea to ask who didn't preach the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Thomas

[mee]

IF PEOPLE were to read the Bible from cover to cover without any preconceived idea of a Trinity, would they arrive at such a concept on their own? Not at all.
What comes through very clearly to an impartial reader is that God alone is the Almighty, the Creator, separate and distinct from anyone else, and that Jesus, even in his prehuman existence, is also separate and distinct, a created being, subordinate to God.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Joedjr

Hi Quahom1




Yep, seems Mee is out selling the doctrine of the JW.
Joe

nearly right, i was out promoting the bible and what it teaches and it was GOODNEWS matthew 24;14

[Joedjr]

Hi Mee,

Originally Posted by mee

nearly right, i was out promoting the bible and what it teaches and it was GOODNEWS matthew 24;14

You meant it is good news, right?
Joe

[Still thinking]

Originally Posted by mee

IF PEOPLE were to read the Bible from cover to cover without any preconceived idea of a Trinity, would they arrive at such a concept on their own? Not at all.

What comes through very clearly to an impartial reader is that God alone is the Almighty, the Creator, separate and distinct from anyone else, and that Jesus, even in his prehuman existence, is also separate and distinct, a created being, subordinate to God.

If that's true then you're saying Jesus is not God. And if He's not God, He's just a crazy person who tries to heal people and create miracles. The Word became flesh and dwelled amongst us; that sounds like a Divine being to me . . . . . .

[Pico]

Originally Posted by mee

is also separate and distinct, a created being, subordinate to God.

Jesus claimed otherwise. Why do you think he was killed? For claiming to be God.

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by mee

IF PEOPLE were to read the Bible from cover to cover without any preconceived idea of a Trinity, would they arrive at such a concept on their own? Not at all.

You might not ... but then you are not free of pre-conception.

They on the other hand, would read of Father, Son and Holy Spirit ... furthermore they would be baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit ...

Originally Posted by mee

What comes through very clearly to an impartial reader is that God alone is the Almighty, the Creator, separate and distinct from anyone else, and that Jesus, even in his prehuman existence, is also separate and distinct, a created being, subordinate to God.

Absolutely not ... nowhere does it say Jesus was created ...

You are not an impartial reader, and your version of the bible is not even an impartial translation, so let's not have any nonsense about impartiality from you, please.

Thomas

[Pico]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Absolutely not ... nowhere does it say Jesus was created ...

It says just the opposite. Jesus created.

John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

[hershK]

The Trinity is nothing that Christians just made up. As a matter of fact, God appeared in different forms even throughout the OT.

He is often spoken of as being a Spirit, and often walking with and talking with people. A lot of verses also imply that God is not alone in heaven, he is often cited and talking to another.

Here are some verses:

Hosea 12:4-5 Genesis 18 Genesis 32:22-23, Genesis 28:13-15, Deuteronomy 24:10(speaks of Moses seeing hte Lord face to face).
Genesis 3:22. Genesis 10.

A Trinity or multilple forms of one God is not foreign.

[Joedjr]

Hi Thomas,

Originally Posted by Thomas

Only in a Trinitarian doctrine can the contradictions of Jesus' words be reconciled to reason, and not subject to some indeterminate mode of pseudo-spirituality, "I and the Father are one" (10:30) whilst "the Father is greater than I" (14:28) ...
Thomas

Here's the simple view.
Aren't these words very important, even more so than those that have to do with tradition? Not so much to help the NT wording be less confusing, but lessen the respect for the "law and prophets"? Does it let the sabbath be changed to the first when the bible claims the seventh? When G!d ordered something to take place for all generations, and today it does not, was G!d lying? Has the law been nailed to a tree? Jesus never said so. Does making Jesus G!d let all these things be swept under a rug? The bible never says that. Yes by making Jesus G!d it might be easier to understand what is taught as and to teach Christianity, but it's not the wording that is used in the bible.

.02
Joe

[mee]

Originally Posted by Joedjr

Hi Mee,



You meant it is good news, right?
Joe

indeed it is

[mee]

Originally Posted by Still thinking

If that's true then you're saying Jesus is not God. And if He's not God, He's just a crazy person who tries to heal people and create miracles. The Word became flesh and dwelled amongst us; that sounds like a Divine being to me . . . . . .

he is certainly not a crazy person he is sons son , and yes he became flesh and dwelled among mankind. he was sent from heaven to the earth . and now he certainly is a mighty one . but only Jehovah is the ALMIGHTY and the MOST HIGH PSALM 83;18


there is an authority associated with the title "Mighty God."

In the Bible certain men were called gods. Why? Because they served as judges in the nation of Israel. (Psalm 82:1-6)
Jesus, the "Mighty God," is Jehovah’s great appointed Judge. He himself explained what this meant:

"The Father judges no one at all, but he has committed all the judging to the Son, in order that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father."—John 5:22, 23.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Pico

It says just the opposite. Jesus created.

John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Jesus-A Godlike One; Divine

Joh 1:1—"and the Word was a god (godlike; divine)"

Gr., καὶ θεὸςη̉̃νὁ λόγος (kai the·os´ en ho lo´gos)