Trinity

[cyberpi]

So how many brothers, sisters, and mothers does Jesus have? By what he said, it sounds like more than one.

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by mee

What is the Trinity? Does the Bible teach it? Is Jesus Christ the Almighty God and part of the Trinity? What is the holy spirit, and how does it function?

Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Yes. Yes. He is the Holy Spirit of God, He is sent from the Father, and he is sent from Christ, he is like the wind, and provides comfort, guidance, and knowledge that Jesus is Lord.

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Yes. Yes. He is the Holy Spirit of God, He is sent from the Father, and he is sent from Christ, he is like the wind, and provides comfort, guidance, and knowledge that Jesus is Lord.

If a person blasphemes Jesus, will it be forgiven? If a person blasphemes the Holy Spirit, will it be forgiven?

Is Jesus the only person who can be baptised with, and speak with the Holy Spirit?

Does Jesus determine who sits on his left or right hand?

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

So how many brothers, sisters, and mothers does Jesus have? By what he said, it sounds like more than one.

A multitude. But most importantly, it's a fellowship. People connected to a nexus through the Spirit.

Originally Posted by Lecter

So you agree with me that Jesus is not part of the trinity?

Mee is a Jehovah's Witness: a non-Trinitarian.

Originally Posted by Pico

Nah, understanding comes from God. One thing I understand from the Bible is this: There is one God, the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God.

some crazy three-in-one relationship is going on here it seems

Not necessarily. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit all possess and are illuminated by the Phenomenon of God, the Logos, a concept introduced by a philosopher named Philo. That doesn't necessarily make any of them God. They are either projectors of the Phenomenon of God, or are the actual essence of God. The Spirit is a wind that blows. The Father is a source of authority and gives a sense of belonging. The Son is God's Ambassador to humanity, but carries the Phenomenon of God (Logos) as part of his mission to humanity.

We can't know for sure what the first-century Christians believed because what we get in the New Testament is a description and depiction of first-century Christian beliefs.

But Jesus wasn't the only human being who carried the Phenomenon of God (Logos). Many of the first-century Christians carried the Logos too. This is what I believe the author of John meant by the Logos becoming flesh. We are the flesh that now carries the Logos. Jesus has passed the Phenomenon of God onto us. Those who carry the Phenomenon of God are effectively part of a fellowship.

It is the fellowship of the Logos, and at the same time a fellowship of the Spiritos. Whether we call it Logos, Spiritos or Shekinah, they are all just ways of expressing ideas about how the Phenomenon of God binds us together and leads us through the challenges in our lives. The Logos is our Reasoning, our mindset, our perspective, our attitude. The Spiritos is the wind that blows in our hearts and minds, it's our personal feelings and intuition. The Shekinah is the presence of God. But whatever word we use, it's about the invisible Phenomenon of God.

It's a phenomenon that we can only see if we look into the hearts and minds of people with the Logos and connect with them. Some people saw the Logos in Jesus. Some did not. It was not physically visible. It was only spiritually visible. It was like, as Jesus said, a wind that you couldn't see, but whose effects were visible if you paid attention. You would only have noticed what the wind was doing if you were distinctly looking for its effects. Jesus himself was not the Phenomenon, but a part of the Phenomenon. But it wasn't practical for him to be the sole carrier of the Phenomenon, so he gave it to his disciples. This group of people carrying the Phenomenon were to be an expanding fellowship, an expanding Phenomenon of the Logos, of people baptised by the Spiritos, the Divine Wind.

The Father, Son, Holy Spirit, the prophets, apostles and Jesus' disciples are part of a Phenomenon, and they are a fellowship that is being formed into a spiritual house, a spiritual temple, in which God lives in His people, and His people live in Himself. The fellowship and Phenomenon is like a spiritual bubble of space and time where people are connected to God. This spiritual bubble is the Spiritos, the Logos, the Shekinah. It is the air that people will breathe in the Kingdom. Home sweet home. It's a nexus of people and God.

I see the Trinity as a subjective concept, neither mandatory nor illegal. When people talk about the Trinity, I think what they really mean is the Phenomenon of God, the Logos. But the Phenomenon of God doesn't just consist of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit but is a nexus that includes the prophets, apostles and Jesus' disciples.

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

If a person blasphemes Jesus, will it be forgiven? If a person blasphemes the Holy Spirit, will it be forgiven?

Is Jesus the only person who can be baptised with, and speak with the Holy Spirit?

Does Jesus determine who sits on his left or right hand?

what are you mumbling? just say what you want to say.

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

So how many brothers, sisters, and mothers does Jesus have? By what he said, it sounds like more than one.

brothers in christ. brother meaning fellowship.

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

When people talk about the Trinity, I think what they really mean is the Phenomenon of God, the Logos. But the Phenomenon of God doesn't just consist of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit but is a nexus that includes the prophets, apostles and Jesus' disciples.

what? when christians talk about the Trinity, they are talking about the one true living God, who has revealed himself in three persons. It is that simple without all the philosocrap.

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

what are you mumbling? just say what you want to say.

They are questions... do you have answers?

Here is another one: Did God give Jesus a commandment of what to say and speak, or was he speaking of himself?

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

They are questions... do you have answers?

Here is another one: Did God give Jesus a commandment of what to say and speak, or was he speaking of himself?

Jesus did not come to speak as a man interpreting a message. he did not have some philosophical religion of man that was the newest fad. and he did not dicate a message relayed by an angel. He came as a mirror image of the Father in heaven and he cannot say anything other than what the Father in heaven would say. when he spoke, it is God speaking, and his authority in speaking it as as such. anyone who heard him or saw him saw and heard the Father in heaven. The blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is different because it is truth of Christ that is revealed, that when denied it is what God has revealed to you as truth, yet you deny God fully knowing what you are doing.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

So how many brothers, sisters, and mothers does Jesus have? By what he said, it sounds like more than one.

Gospel says he had brothers and sisters. And at his death he gave his mother to his friend to care for and look after her, because she was a widow. And he also declared that all were his brothers, sisters and mothers.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

Jesus did not come to speak as a man interpreting a message. he did not have some philosophical religion of man that was the newest fad. and he did not dicate a message relayed by an angel. He came as a mirror image of the Father in heaven and he cannot say anything other than what the Father in heaven would say. when he spoke, it is God speaking, and his authority in speaking it as as such. anyone who heard him or saw him saw and heard the Father in heaven. The blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is different because it is truth of Christ that is revealed, that when denied it is what God has revealed to you as truth, yet you deny God fully knowing what you are doing.

Indeed, he amazed the priests and sages in the temple at the age of 12, with his knowledge and understanding of life. They were stunned that a "child" would know the depth of knowledge and wisdom Jesus had.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

They are questions... do you have answers?

Here is another one: Did God give Jesus a commandment of what to say and speak, or was he speaking of himself?

He said "The Father and I are one". He also said "The Father is in me, and I am in the Father". He also said "No one can get the the Father but through me, and the Father comes to you by me."

John states that Jesus is the Word of God, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, and God and the Word are One, and the world knew him not. God the Father is called the Father, but never called the Lord directly. The Old testament speaks at times of the Father, and other times of the Lord. Only Jesus was called the Lord in the New testament, and extrapilation strongly suggests that in the Old testament, The Lord was a personage of God that the world new not, but different from the Father, yet the same.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

A multitude. But most importantly, it's a fellowship. People connected to a nexus through the Spirit.



Mee is a Jehovah's Witness: a non-Trinitarian.



Not necessarily. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit all possess and are illuminated by the Phenomenon of God, the Logos, a concept introduced by a philosopher named Philo. That doesn't necessarily make any of them God. They are either projectors of the Phenomenon of God, or are the actual essence of God. The Spirit is a wind that blows. The Father is a source of authority and gives a sense of belonging. The Son is God's Ambassador to humanity, but carries the Phenomenon of God (Logos) as part of his mission to humanity.

We can't know for sure what the first-century Christians believed because what we get in the New Testament is a description and depiction of first-century Christian beliefs.

But Jesus wasn't the only human being who carried the Phenomenon of God (Logos). Many of the first-century Christians carried the Logos too. This is what I believe the author of John meant by the Logos becoming flesh. We are the flesh that now carries the Logos. Jesus has passed the Phenomenon of God onto us. Those who carry the Phenomenon of God are effectively part of a fellowship.

It is the fellowship of the Logos, and at the same time a fellowship of the Spiritos. Whether we call it Logos, Spiritos or Shekinah, they are all just ways of expressing ideas about how the Phenomenon of God binds us together and leads us through the challenges in our lives. The Logos is our Reasoning, our mindset, our perspective, our attitude. The Spiritos is the wind that blows in our hearts and minds, it's our personal feelings and intuition. The Shekinah is the presence of God. But whatever word we use, it's about the invisible Phenomenon of God.

It's a phenomenon that we can only see if we look into the hearts and minds of people with the Logos and connect with them. Some people saw the Logos in Jesus. Some did not. It was not physically visible. It was only spiritually visible. It was like, as Jesus said, a wind that you couldn't see, but whose effects were visible if you paid attention. You would only have noticed what the wind was doing if you were distinctly looking for its effects. Jesus himself was not the Phenomenon, but a part of the Phenomenon. But it wasn't practical for him to be the sole carrier of the Phenomenon, so he gave it to his disciples. This group of people carrying the Phenomenon were to be an expanding fellowship, an expanding Phenomenon of the Logos, of people baptised by the Spiritos, the Divine Wind.

The Father, Son, Holy Spirit, the prophets, apostles and Jesus' disciples are part of a Phenomenon, and they are a fellowship that is being formed into a spiritual house, a spiritual temple, in which God lives in His people, and His people live in Himself. The fellowship and Phenomenon is like a spiritual bubble of space and time where people are connected to God. This spiritual bubble is the Spiritos, the Logos, the Shekinah. It is the air that people will breathe in the Kingdom. Home sweet home. It's a nexus of people and God.

I see the Trinity as a subjective concept, neither mandatory nor illegal. When people talk about the Trinity, I think what they really mean is the Phenomenon of God, the Logos. But the Phenomenon of God doesn't just consist of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit but is a nexus that includes the prophets, apostles and Jesus' disciples.

Hmm, the Father, with the Word (Logos) and in Spirit. Sounds like three expressions describing One Entity (that is complete). You know I exist (for example) though you can't physically see me, because you are reading my "word". And you are aware of my "spirit" because I am focussed on you as I express my "word" to you. Yet I am one and the same entity.

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

what? when christians talk about the Trinity, they are talking about the one true living God, who has revealed himself in three persons. It is that simple without all the philosocrap.

Not trying to make things complicated here. Just think there's an unnecessary barrier between Trinitarians and non-Trinitarians.

When you say that "God is revealed in three persons," you are saying that God is somehow projecting Himself. Anything that projects itself has a Phenomenon, so the so-called "three persons" could be thought of as part of the Phenomenon.

But my point is that it is not essential to see God as triune. The terminology is "triune" but that doesn't mean God is triune. "Father," "Son" and "Holy Spirit" are just words that the first-century Christians used. They don't actually refer to distinctly separable entities. They refer to phenomena. A phenomenon in the world is something you observe, like the wind blowing paper around, a lightning storm or a teacher getting angry at her students and yelling at them.

There is overlap between the meaning of the words "Logos," "Spiritos" and "Shekinah." They all refer to the Phenomenon of God, but have slightly different meanings depending on how they're describing what God means and is doing in the world. We, as human beings, made up words to describe things in the natural world like the wind and the lightning storm. The wind and the lightning storm aren't distinctly separable entities. The words have been introduced into our language and assigned meanings that will be useful for mortals like us.

The same thing happened when the first-century Christians wrote the New Testament. "Father," "Son," "Holy Spirit," "Logos" and "Spiritos" don't refer to anything precise or exact. The words are put in there for meaningful communication to future generations.

But what I'm saying is that maybe it's not really about God, but the Phenomenon of God. These words don't really describe God, but concepts related to God to which and with which humans can relate and connect. Human beings are establishing a relationship with God by relating and connecting to God's Phenomenon. We cannot define God, so we must connect with something less than Him, something compatible with our human nature.

The Logos described in the opening passage of the Gospel of John was a human-compatible phenomenon. The problem of Trinitarianism vs. non-Trinitarianism might be resolvable by thinking of the Logos, the Phenomenon of God, as triune instead of God. Isn't that the whole idea behind the Trinity, that it's really about the Phenomenon of God rather than God Himself? But anyway, you'd have to ask mee on that one. Does my idea work for him? I'm just trying to build bridges here.

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Hmm, the Father, with the Word (Logos) and in Spirit. Sounds like three expressions describing One Entity (that is complete). You know I exist (for example) though you can't physically see me, because you are reading my "word". And you are aware of my "spirit" because I am focussed on you as I express my "word" to you. Yet I am one and the same entity.

Yes you exist and you are one entity.

But......your phenomenon, the Quahom phenomenon, your online personality is not the real "you." Or at least.....not the whole you. It can only ever be an image, a projection of you. Same with me. This is not the real "me." What you see is the Saltmeister phenomenon. It's just a projection of me.

Even if you found out my address and....ding dong....knocked on my door. You still wouldn't know the real me....the whole me. It is still just a projection of me.

The only way to know the real me, whole me, is to read my mind, or perform a mind meld. Where we say, my mind, your mind, our minds are one.

The real you, the whole you, is one existent entity. But the projection of you exists only in my mind. It is not even an entity. It is an image I have of you.

Nevertheless, when we interact online, it is two real personalities interacting. Real feelings. Real attitudes. Real needs. Even if some things are hidden. The phenomenon is as real as its source......If I insult the online personality (the spirit), I might well be "blaspheming" against its source (father).