Unclean?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Dondi

He accepts us, but check you sin at the door.

More like "don't bother to bring in your coat...I've got a brand new one for you..."

[InLove]

I was actually thinking that He took my coat and wore it out before He gave me His.

InPeace,
InLove

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

the idea is not that non-jews themselves are "unclean" (although they would be in a state of *cultic* uncleanliness, which is not the same thing, although the translation would fail to note the distinction) but that their food and utensils would be thereby impermissible for jews to eat of and from. hence, jews would not be able to eat with non-jews, particularly in the contemporary environment, in which people ate with their hands from a shared dish. you can see how some people (particularly the ignorant or uneducated) would understand that as "urgh, can't eat with those non-jews, they're unclean" - whereas it's actually a question of kashrut, in that it would be unreasonable (and still is) to expect non-jews to provide kosher dining facilities. it is abundantly clear how this argument would play out in the environment of the early "jews for jesus".

b'shalom

bananabrain

BB, understood. However, in the Christian world, it is a rule to do nothing that would put a stumbling block before another when it comes to God (at least that is the way my parents taught me). So, the precedent would be to insure that when inviting a Jew to dinner, to insure that all preparations were done in a "kosher" way...thus the dinner would be enjoyable to all and the dialogue would be easy, informative and pleasant. Hence the evening would be memorable to all...(I think that is called being a good host).

v/r

Joshua

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, InLove!

Originally Posted by InLove

Not unless we want the same standard applied to ourselves.

Maybe "accept" is a term that falls short of the goal. Maybe it is not necessarily always our job to accept, but more often simply to love?

If not "accept," how about "tolerate?" Which gives us an opportunity to love the foolishness out of somebody, even if it takes a clue-by-four upside the head to do so.

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Q!

Originally Posted by Quahom1

According to Christian tradition, Jesus did not come for the healthy, but for the wretched, the sick, the anxious, the down in heart...

He did not share the majority of His meals and His time with kings and princes, but rather with paupers, prostitutes, tax collectors, carpenters, children and fishermen (common folk, salt of the earth).

He never however, said to accept their ways. He simply said accept them, for they are His.

Amen.

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Did you ever drive past a man or woman standing in the median by a stop light, holding a sign that said, "hungry and broke, please help"? Of course you have. I think we all have. What was your first reaction? Look anywhere but at the person in dire straits? Roll up your car window? Turn up your radio to drown out your conflicting thoughts? Drive past as quick as possible? Maybe get angry at them for being in the position they are in, thus making you feel the way you feel?

Or maybe you gave the down in luck, a 20 spot, then drove away thinking you helped...for about 60 seconds, until reality comes knocking and tells you that chump change will be good for a meal or two (or a bottle of booze), but not much else...

I am pretty sure I will be chastized here, perhaps I deserve and/or need it. I think this specific example flirts with that boundary between assisting and enabling destructive behavior. The trouble is it is so difficult to tell which concerning a stranger.

Every night I drive home from work, there is one of a small number of "homeless" people standing on various medians or corners for the first half mike or so as I drive past the hospital and university campuses. There is a Catholic charity homeless shelter about 2 miles up the road (I have served meals there in the past). Anyway, especially considering these homeless individuals, it seems the same faces on a revolving basis. Now, mind you, I am effectively handicapped. I worked my way off of disability payments because I felt with the proper training I could still use my mind. I got my degree late in life, and I've been busting my tail as best I can. So it strikes a resonant chord in me...these young men that seem to be in relatively good health panhandling.

Now, working for a VA hospital, I am aware there are homeless veterans in the area, and likely some of them may count among the faces I see. Certainly I do not know these men as individuals. I do know that I had the bejebers scared out of me when I first went to the homeless shelter, arrived a little early and decided to park across the street for a minute and wait on my friends, and was immediately swarmed upon by a small number of obviously intoxicated people (stoned on what I don't know and didn't care to find out), all looking for handouts.

Now, don't get me wrong, I have in the past offered others elsewhere that claimed they were homeless and hungry to buy them a meal or give them my lunch, an offer they declined in preference to cash I would not give them. As I said elsewhere, it is a delicate balance to assist one bent on foolishness without becoming an enabler. I would gladly feed a hungry person, I will not give cash to an addict.

So while you have a point in essence...it is a judgement call that must be made on the fly. Unfortunately, past experience tells me to leave well enough alone, the odds sadly are not in favor. I would happily give a job to anyone looking for work if I had work to offer...of course, I've heard the stories of watching the shelter clear out when somebody came in with an offer of work, a lot of these "homeless" people are really homeless by choice. It is a sad way to live, but it is the choice they make and continue to make.

We can't really help anybody who isn't ready to be helped. Until then we might make ourselves available, if we can do so in a way that threatens neither ourselves/families or the person in need. But unless and until that person decides to change, it is their choice. Some of this may be social and economic, OK, I'll grant. It's hard to excuse illness, mental or physical. But an able bodied person, especially in this day and age, has the choice. The choice to give up on themselves and society, or to participate and make something of themselves.

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Everything leads up to one thing, denial. We don't want to deal with the imperfect in life. It bothers us or enrages us. Truth is Jesus was pointing out quite clearly that people are exactly what we should be interested in. Our fellow man IS our business. We as Christ's representitives/followers should be shining examples of leadership in aggressively pursuing the rectification of the hardships of others.

Maybe I am in denial. Maybe I am rationalizing. Maybe I am jaded. But I like to think I am being realistic. I can't save the world, I don't have it in me. I don't have the resources, I don't have the stamina, I don't have the wherewithal. But I will gladly assist where G-d directs me. And as I am fond of saying, I will help anybody help themselves...but I don't do handouts, sorry.

Originally Posted by Quahom1

He never said it would be easy or pleasant. He simply said "do it for my sake"...

Yes, and when He speaks, I listen. Otherwise, its my call, and I try to use wisdom, experience and better judgement in these matters.

"Help" seems to be another relative term...what I mean by help is food in the belly, clothes on the back and a warm bed. To others, "help" is the next rock of crack cocaine.