Walled Garden approach to CR

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

The beliefs "mainstream" Christianity holds about "God the Father" and the beliefs some Gnostics hold regarding the "Demiurge" are quite different {to say the least, }

along with Monad, Nag Hammadi, Sethiamsim, Mandeism, Platonism, Marsans, Mani...

but nobody is home.

[juantoo3]

If I am reading Brian correctly, it is a matter of organization. We've been all through this before, a couple of times as I recall, trying to organize the boards in the least offensive yet most effective way. And every set up looked at had its drawbacks, there was simply no way to satisfy everybody.

Consider, if the Abrahamic board were expanded, then what too of Rastafari, Baha'i, and a few others who are peripherally monotheistic or allude to it.

What do we do? Create new boards for everybody that comes along? Do we also create a board for the "star wars/"force" religion? I mean, in terms of organization, Brain faces a bit of a nightmare any way he turns.

I appreciate Taj and Wil's concerns, perhaps some form of accomodation could be made by virtue of the fact there is *now* sufficient input from contributors to esoteric Christianity, but for a long time there was little contribution that was openly called such. However, there still remains the matter of "clash of opinions" that frequents discussions where mainstream and esoteric Christianity collide. I do what I can to smooth the edges, but the "attitude" flows *both* ways. One must admit, it is not always the mainstreamers that initiate the attitude. In this, Brian is most correct.

Perhaps esoteric Christianity is not best placed under the Pagan board, yet considering what we have to work with, I think it was a viable solution at the time it was done.

The "walled garden" idea, though taking a while to set in my own reasoning, seems to me the most amicable under the circumstances. When I wish contribution from disparate sources, which is usually for me, I take my thoughts to the more general boards as an invitation. If my thoughts are localized to Christianity specifically, I take them to the Christianity board. On those rare occasions when I wish input from a different faith board, I take my comments to the specific board with the understanding that I am a guest in their garden, and behave accordingly. I do not argue if I disagree. I take my disagreements with me when I leave.

My two cents, for all they are worth.

FWIW, I have not contributed, nor intend to contribute, to the Judas thread. Unless there is some need of my services.

As a suggestion, perhaps the esoteric Christians could begin their own Judas thread, in the appropriate forum, where esoteric connotations can be freely explored without concern of mainstream interruption?

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by taijasi

One is that although there will always be the more orthodox or conservative elements within Christianity, most inquiring followers of that faith now can accept that the four canonical Gospels are not the only legitimate Gospels ... and may even be as arbitrarily picked as by playing pin the tail on the donkey.

As much as I welcome and enjoy the input from all of our members on the Christianity board, including 'alternative Christian' views, I think this is an example of what tends to get those posts in trouble. Not picking on you here Taij, but the above paragraph is somewhat offensive, even to moderate to liberal Christians, IMO. Frankly, my opinion is that you can say in the Christian forum that you don't agree that the four Gospels are the only legitimate ones, and discuss it respectfully, but to imply that *most* other Christians agree with you and also in an insulting manner, well, that's crossing the line.

As to the organization of the board, well, I tend to be a lumper rather than a splitter. I'd rather see us all in the same forum talking cordially to each other (even when we disagree) rather than all off in our separate corners ignoring each other.

2 c,
lunamoth

disclaimer: this view is only my view as a member of this forum who happens to enjoy posting in the Christianity forum.

[lunamoth]

Also, for what it's worth, I've seen things like UU and other alternative Christian forms put under the heading of Syncretic Religions. This might be better than Esoteric Christianity, which Thomas has pointed out elsewhere also has a distinctive yet still quite orthodox meaning.

luna

[taijasi]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Also, for what it's worth, I've seen things like UU and other alternative Christian forms put under the heading of Syncretic Religions. This might be better than Esoteric Christianity, which Thomas has pointed out elsewhere also has a distinctive yet still quite orthodox meaning.

luna

No offense intended, and you're not the only one who likes to group folks together, luna. I, too, would rather see the connections, yet I have never even heard of the word syncretic until a few months ago, in these discussions with yourself and Thomas. I can assure you, quite a few folks will likewise find themselves running to Websters just to understand what that forum/board is all about! I'm sure the same is true when folks toss around words like Soteriology and epistemology ... but then, there aren't any forums that are that particular or focused at CR ...

The Lightning Deva told me that this is enough ... (passing through my area as he is)

Namaskar,

andrew

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by taijasi

No offense intended, and you're not the only one who likes to group folks together, luna. I, too, would rather see the connections, yet I have never even heard of the word syncretic until a few months ago, in these discussions with yourself and Thomas. I can assure you, quite a few folks will likewise find themselves running to Websters just to understand what that forum/board is all about! I'm sure the same is true when folks toss around words like Soteriology and epistemology ... but then, there aren't any forums that are that particular or focused at CR ...

The Lightning Deva told me that this is enough ... (passing through my area as he is)

Namaskar,

andrew

Hi Taij, no offense taken. I thought it had a slightly negative connotation myself but I've seen it used without protest elsewhere. Anyway, as I said at first I would rather we find a way to avoid further divisions.

peace,
lunamoth

[juantoo3]

Any way one looks at this, it is going to be difficult to keep peace in the family. You can't please everyone all of the time.

BTW, my comment about beginning a Judas thread on the esoteric forum wasn't to separate, but to distinguish. The Christianity forum proper has had a lot of contributions over a long period of time. Perhaps it is time to build the esoteric forum, by those of that faith / inclination, as a resource for visitors, rather than "lumping" mainstream and esoteric together and leaving a visitor more confused. I assure, my motivation for my suggestion is not separation for reason of personalities, it is one of convenience for research. It just happens to have the added benefit of keeping clashing ideologies apart.

Ideally, esoteric visitors are welcome to contribute (provided they behave themselves) in the mainstream forum, and mainstream visitors are welcome to contribute (provided they behave themselves) in the esoteric forum. But the esoteric subject matter needs to be built by those familiar with it.

One cannot realistically expect the mainstream forum to build an esoteric library if they are unfamiliar with the material. Particularly, (and I want to be as neutral in saying this as possible,) if the esotericists are going to remain..., umm, how can I say politely,...arrogant in their presentation.

I expect there will remain some overflow from one to the other. But past experience with others now long gone has left a bitter taste. Sacred star comes to mind here. I don't think esotericists appreciate it if a mainstream person were to start telling them where to get off, how mainstreamers are "it" and everyone else is "sh..not." Yet that is very much how the mainstreamers often get treated by the esotericists. As long as that attitude remains on the boards, any effective "melding" isn't going to happen. It just won't. All people have their pride and dignity. They all deserve to be treated with respect, especially when there is disagreement.

We have a long way to go here at CR. We've come a long way, but there are still huge obstacles to overcome. And there probably always will be. Right now, as things are, I think the set-up is appropriate, given the situation and circumstances.

In the meantime, I am reasonably certain that building the esoteric forum will go a long way towards overcoming some of the obstacles that face us now.

Speaking as a contributor, not as staff.

[taijasi]

Sorry - I will be of no additional use on this thread. I have just had my eye picked to pieces ... and frankly, these specks have left a sting.

respectfully,

taijasi

[wil]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Ideally, esoteric visitors are welcome to contribute (provided they behave themselves) in the mainstream forum, and mainstream visitors are welcome to contribute (provided they behave themselves) in the esoteric forum. But the esoteric subject matter needs to be built by those familiar with it.

One cannot realistically expect the mainstream forum to build an esoteric library if they are unfamiliar with the material. Particularly, (and I want to be as neutral in saying this as possible,) if the esotericists are going to remain..., umm, how can I say politely,...arrogant in their presentation.

I expect there will remain some overflow from one to the other. But past experience with others now long gone has left a bitter taste. Sacred star comes to mind here. I don't think esotericists appreciate it if a mainstream person were to start telling them where to get off, how mainstreamers are "it" and everyone else is "sh..not." Yet that is very much how the mainstreamers often get treated by the esotericists. As long as that attitude remains on the boards, any effective "melding" isn't going to happen. It just won't. All people have their pride and dignity. They all deserve to be treated with respect, especially when there is disagreement.

We have a long way to go here at CR. We've come a long way, but there are still huge obstacles to overcome.

I think the sword cuts strongly both ways...and I think we all can 'behave' in each others forum and discuss on an even basis should the divide be created. Whether the title is syncretic or esoteric both seem to fit to me...did I have to look them both up and review...yes...but that too is ok. Either way it needs to be an Abrahamic boards...it isn't a modern religion and despite the fact that some that will fit this mold explore or even embrace the numerology, cosmology, and pagan origins of the Abrahamic religions...doesn't qualify it to move into the pagan camp....as a main book is the bible and for me the teachings of Jesus. However it seems (as I indicated prior) that if Kabbalists and Sufists
also fit this forum...probably would be easier than dancing around wording required to discuss the same with the orthodox, conservative, or literal...