war on iraq..

[I, Brian]

While the US is certainly open to accusations of manipulation of information and ulterior motives, obviously this does not at all infer that terrorist groups that inoke religion are therefore free of the same accusations. It's pretty obivous that the use of Islam as a weapon by these people is nothing more than attempts at demogoguery - Bin Laden's alleged call to arms after September 11th was pretty indicative of that. And now in Iraq the attempt by thugs to center themselves in some kind of "accepted morality" is pretty sad.

The Iraq War has simply been one lone unending tragedy, and it is still is not finished.

[Kaspar]

[QUOTE=I, Brian]It's pretty obivous that the use of Islam as a weapon by these people is nothing more than attempts at demogoguery - Bin Laden's alleged call to arms after September 11th was pretty indicative of that. And now in Iraq the attempt by thugs to center themselves in some kind of "accepted morality" is pretty sad.[QUOTE]

I whole heartedly agree with you. IMO there is a moral arguement against Western capitalism but Bin Laden is the Biggest hypocrite that could claim it.
He was personally trained by the CIA and recived large amounts of weapons, and money from the USA to fight the Soviets when they invaded. I think the killing of innocent lives is the biggest negative aspect of capitalism. It is the one arguement that you can use most strongly when arguing against war etc. September 11 proves how immoral and blind Al-Quaida are.

IMO Binladen's political gains came first and then the idea it was a righteous jihad came long after.

I would like to draw a similarity between George Orwells idea from 1984 of continous War and George Bushes claim that the "War on Terror" doesn't have a visible end.

peace

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by Kaspar

I would like to draw a similarity between George Orwells idea from 1984 of continous War and George Bushes claim that the "War on Terror" doesn't have a visible end.

peace

Darn right there.

[Susma Rio Sep]

Thanks, Kaspar, for your PM.

You asked about my view on the Iraq war. I had posted some messages here earlier. I will add these musings...

When Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, he was wrong.

Now Bush invaded Iraq. I believe it is also wrong, and turning out to be more and more wrong everyday.

Some people maintain that war is a part of human nature. I beg to disagree.

Granted that war is a part of human nature, granting but not conceding of course; then it is not a part of our rational intelligent nature, at most of our emotional nature only. And the tragedy is that we have more often than not allowed our emotions to be in control of our intelligence.

An example is the tendency of US voters as to their actual inclination in the closely coming election for their president: there are more who although acknowledging that Kerry deservedly won all three debates, yet would vote for Bush on the basis of his unswerving determination to pursue the war, which has been conspicuously shown beyond doubts to have been launched on false pretensions.

If it were up to me and I have the technological resources, I would gas the whole world with a mood enhancing chemical, so that when a man's emotions reach a certain level of aggression, so that the next step is physical violence on fellowmen, then the chemical would set in to automatically sedate him -- without adverse side effects otherwise.

I think present state of science and technology can produce such a chemical and its delivery vehicle, at much lesser costs than all the armaments that are now being marketed by advanced nations, like again the USA, the #1 peddler of WMD's today and for for many more years to come. Sad.

Susma Rio Sep aka Pachomius2000

[alexa]

With this post, Susma, you won my respect !

[Vajradhara]

Salaam kaspar,



thank you for the post.

the problem is that bin Laden doesn't have the authority to declare a jihad. that is reserved exclusively for an Islamic government to declare, which he is not.

of course, in Islam, there are two ways in which the word jihad is understood... and external jihad, which is an aggressive military action towards another state and an internal struggle which is where the Muslim strives to overcome their character flaws and so forth.

these are quite important distinctions in Islamic jurisprudence.

[Kaspar]

alaikum Salaam Vajradhara,

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

the problem is that bin Laden doesn't have the authority to declare a jihad. that is reserved exclusively for an Islamic government to declare, which he is not.

I heard a muslim from Pakistan on the radio, speaking about Bin Laden and he said that for years he has been trying to remove fundementalist muslims, from fighting and killing but he said it proved immensly hard because of the U.S support for them. Anyway IMO the war on terror has made Al-qaeda stronger and blair is a fool for joining in. He dealt with the IRA, surely he knows how that a war won't destroy terrorism. A war is in some ways a form of Terrorism. I'll debate anyone about that if they want to .

by the way Quahom1 and any other US citizen, who are you going to vote for Kerry or Bush?

thanks

[Vajradhara]

Originally Posted by Kaspar

by the way Quahom1 and any other US citizen, who are you going to vote for Kerry or Bush?

thanks

there are more than those two choices, you know...

Candidates for US President, 2004 and their party affiliation:

Bush - Republican
Kerry - Democrat
Amondson - Prohibition
Peroutka - Constitution
Cobb - Green
Badnarik - Libertarian
Peltier - Peace and Freedom Party of California (Yes, it's Leonard Peltier, ex-AIM member)
Jay - Personal Choice Party
Nader - Reform Party
Brown - Socalist
Van Auken - Socalist Equality Party
Calero - Socalist Workers Party
Parker - Workers World Party
Andress - Independent
Harens - Christian Freedom

and then a whole host of smaller politcal parties and write in candidates.

it's really a much more broad choice than most folks are aware of... which is sort of a shame, really. there are viable alternates to the two big party boys, it simply takes the time and effort to investigate.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Kaspar

alaikum Salaam Vajradhara,
I heard a muslim from Pakistan on the radio, speaking about Bin Laden and he said that for years he has been trying to remove fundementalist muslims, from fighting and killing but he said it proved immensly hard because of the U.S support for them. Anyway IMO the war on terror has made Al-qaeda stronger and blair is a fool for joining in. He dealt with the IRA, surely he knows how that a war won't destroy terrorism. A war is in some ways a form of Terrorism. I'll debate anyone about that if they want to .

by the way Quahom1 and any other US citizen, who are you going to vote for Kerry or Bush?

thanks

I eh, was thinking of writing in Paul Simon and Art Garfunkel. Now that's a team that makes some awesome music!

v/r

Q