Was Jesus being a nut case when he said:

Conscience · 04-17-2005, 07:20 PM

"Don't imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! No, I came to bring a sword. I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. Your enemies will be right in your own household! If you love your father or mother more than you love me, you are not worthy of being mine; or if you love your son or daughter more than me, you are not worthy of being mine. If you refuse to take up your cross and follow me, you are not worthy of being mine. If you cling to your life, you will lose it; but if you give it up for me, you will find it. Matt. 10:34-39

Whoa..Who does Jesus think he is?

mee · 04-17-2005, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conscience

"Don't imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! No, I came to bring a sword. I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. Your enemies will be right in your own household! If you love your father or mother more than you love me, you are not worthy of being mine; or if you love your son or daughter more than me, you are not worthy of being mine. If you refuse to take up your cross and follow me, you are not worthy of being mine. If you cling to your life, you will lose it; but if you give it up for me, you will find it. Matt. 10:34-39

Whoa..Who does Jesus think he is?

Because Gods word is truth , any one who stands firm for those truths in their life will also get persecution, because the whole world is in the power of the wicked one satan the devil. (1 john 5;19)so a person will get opposition even from freinds and family . so it is not Jesus who is teaching bad things, it is the way people react to any one taking on those teachings

Conscience · 04-17-2005, 08:14 PM

Whoa!! Nice to meet ya Mee!

Bandit · 04-18-2005, 05:29 AM

i am thinking we do have a cross to bare here on earth, with burdens & problems & temptations. but Jesus taught he would put nothing on us that we could not bare & that is important to remember..so whatever comes our way we can make it & carry the cross all the way, that which he trusted in us to do & to deliver.

The Word of God is true. I believe God gave us our mothers & fathers & children & families & friends as part of the line of flesh that makes us man. The flesh is so temporary & so short lived & we dont get to choose who our parents our or who are children are. God does this.

The people are His, he just lets them be in our lives for awhile & they help us learn & grow. But our love for the Lord will indeed always outweigh the ones in our lives & through this love, we come to know the creator & love the people he gave to us. This is a love that cannot be explained unless we know Him personally in Spirit & in Truth.

& when we get to our heavenly home we will exchange the cross that we bare, for a crown of eternal life.

I dont think Jesus is a nut case.

lunamoth · 04-18-2005, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit

i am thinking we do have a cross to bare here on earth, with burdens & problems & temptations. but Jesus taught he would put nothing on us that we could not bare & that is important to remember..so whatever comes our way we can make it & carry the cross all the way, that which he trusted in us to do & to deliver.

The Word of God is true. I believe God gave us our mothers & fathers & children & families & friends as part of the line of flesh that makes us man. The flesh is so temporary & so short lived & we dont get to choose who our parents our or who are children are. God does this.

The people are His, he just lets them be in our lives for awhile & they help us learn & grow. But our love for the Lord will indeed always outweigh the ones in our lives & through this love, we come to know the creator & love the people he gave to us. This is a love that cannot be explained unless we know Him personally in Spirit & in Truth.

& when we get to our heavenly home we will exchange the cross that we bare, for a crown of eternal life.

I dont think Jesus is a nut case.

Bandit, you really show here how tenderness, loving-kindness, and lightness of being go a long long way in preaching the good news of Christ.

peace,
lunamoth

Conscience · 04-18-2005, 05:38 AM

I dont think Jesus is a nut case either! Im just asking questions on some lesser qouted scriptures to see what people's thoughts are. You know?

Bandit · 04-18-2005, 05:56 AM

yes, i know Conscience

peace Lunamoth

path_of_one · 04-18-2005, 06:48 PM

I do not ever think that Jesus was being a nut case.

In my own experience, when I stand firm in my faith, some people get upset. They are reacting so out of a place of fear, because when one stands firm in one's faith, others question their beliefs. If one is walking with God, however, no pressure from the people around you will be strong enough to cause one to waver, even if these people are your family and those to whom you are closest.

I try always to radiate peace and love, but some people recoil in fear from peace and love, because it is not what they are used to dealing with. They are afraid because I am not acting like a "normal" person, and they do not understand why. I compare it to how I have worked with abused animals. At first, extending love and peace and joy still causes fear. In time, they recognize my unwavering love and then accept it. In time, people who react negatively and out of fear generally come to a place where they get more curious about my life and beliefs than fearful.

We are taught by this passage that even if we face persecution from those to whom we are closest, we are always to stand in our faith. We are always to love God above all else.

As bandit said, we each have our cross, and God promises to give us the strength, wisdom, and courage we need to bear it.

I especially find the last part of the passage beautiful. This is not only talking about physical life, but all that is associated with it. If we cling to our life, not only our physical bodies, but also our social identity, our material wealth, our cultural biases... everything we think makes us who "we are," then we are placing our own ego above God's purpose for us. This passage calls us to detach from this life so that we may be prepared for a different life with God. If we cling to our lives and all the trappings therein, we lose out on real life- eternal life with God. But if we lose our lives, die to ourselves (as Paul puts it), then we become alive in Christ. We cannot serve both ourselves and God. We must always put God in the highest priority, and be willing to sacrifice all for our walk with Christ, even as Jesus did.

mee · 04-18-2005, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conscience

"Don't imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! No, I came to bring a sword. I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. Your enemies will be right in your own household! If you love your father or mother more than you love me, you are not worthy of being mine; or if you love your son or daughter more than me, you are not worthy of being mine. If you refuse to take up your cross and follow me, you are not worthy of being mine. If you cling to your life, you will lose it; but if you give it up for me, you will find it. Matt. 10:34-39

Whoa..Who does Jesus think he is?

its interesting ,that at the time that jesus said this ,he was preparing his diciples for the preachingof the good news of the kingdom , and he told them that they would get persecution
Look! I am sending YOU forth as sheep amidst wolves; therefore prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves. Be on YOUR guard against men; for they will deliver YOU up to local courts, and they will scourge YOU in their synagogues. Why, YOU will be haled before governors and kings for my sake, for a witness to them and the nations.(matt 10 16-18) so it was because of the preaching of the good news of the kingdom that even family would persecute them

Conscience · 04-19-2005, 12:34 AM

Good point, I agree!

InLove · 04-29-2005, 10:14 AM

In a fallen world, the Truth that offered peace from the beginning is misunderstood (my paraphrase of John 1), and it is this misunderstanding that brings division.

Wherever there is light, there is exposure, and people do not like to have that light shine in the corners they cannot clean. even if the light has come to help.

Quahom1 · 04-30-2005, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InLove

In a fallen world, the Truth that offered peace from the beginning is misunderstood (my paraphrase of John 1), and it is this misunderstanding that brings division.

Wherever there is light, there is exposure, and people do not like to have that light shine in the corners they cannot clean. even if the light has come to help.

I suppose the simplest example of what Jesus was warning us of could be found right in my own family. During the 60s and 70s, we grew up in a very Old Roman Catholic parish, and way of thinking. Everything was quiet, orderly, dogmatic, ritualistic, and somewhat empty. Then my mother discovered the Catholic Charismatic movement. A far cry from traditional old world catholicism to say the least!

At first we were intrigued and amused, but then her new found faith began to "interfere" with our traditional views and ways. The Bible was being read for hours a day, and we had to sit and listen, the churches we began attending were anything but quiet and reserved, people spoke in strange sounds, and fell on the floor, people didn't shake hands at the sign of peace, they bear hugged and cried and laughed. Even the priest picked out a melody with a guitar as he gove his sermon (while wearing a simple cassack and open toed sandels, and wearing his hair half way down his back).

Dad, didn't know what to make of it, but loved his wife, so he went along gingerly, but we teenagers said "NO WAY". To make a long story short, there was a great rift in our family over Jesus, and church. I was given the ultimatum of complying, or leaving the house. So at sixteen I packed my bags and left.

Can you imagine that? I wanted the traditional ways, they wanted the newer freer way...so I rebelled and left? What irony

The truth was, that Jesus really did come into strong presence in our home. We just couldn't handle the intensity. My Mom was ready, but the rest of us were not. And to complicate matters, in her exuberance, she intended to show us the way whether we liked it or not.

Our quiet, orderly home and family got violently shaken awake for a few years. And it took time for the rest of us to come to understand, accept, and revel in the truth of the Spirit of God. It also took a little time for the healing of the rift to happen.

Today, when I go home on leave and head to church with my parents. Mom goes right up to the alter and gets into the excitement. Dad goes half way up and acts as usher for the parisheners who wish to go up.

And I, well I stay in the back of the church, but I have a huge grin on my face, and I enjoy my parents, the people and the wonder of Jesus. I don't mind people coming up to me and being touchy feely (very tactile oriented parish folk), nor do they try pushing me to be the same.

But it could have all blown up so many years ago, when Jesus entered my family's house and lives, if one or some of us hadn't secretly wanted Him there.

We just weren't ready for the ride...

v/r

Q

lunamoth · 04-30-2005, 08:49 PM

Thank you for that story, Q, and nicely written.

Religion has brought division to many families to be sure. In my family whle I was growing up religion was just something in the background, something my Mom did and had us do as kids. My Dad is an atheist. I never knew this for sure until about four years ago when I asked him if he believed in God and he said no. This in spite of the fact that he started going to church (after I left home) and now is involved in church life and is quietly one of the pillars there. At any rate, the division caused by this was not in my family but in my psyche.

Still I'm not sure that this is really what Jesus was teaching here, that families need be divided over his message. Perhaps He knew that this would happen when some responded to His challenge:

Quote:

If you refuse to take up your cross and follow me, you are not worthy of being mine. If you cling to your life, you will lose it; but if you give it up for me, you will find it.

This is the personal transformation Jesus taught as "The Way." Every day choosing to have Him as Lord, rather than the world. Every day taking up our cross and dying to our old way of being and raising to a new life, a new way of being. A way of being not based in fear and clinging to the world, but in love and clinging to God. You bet that if your mother or brother does this it will affect the whole family. My mother modeled that God-centered life even as my father lauded the triumph of knowledge and science over ignorance and superstition. And, I have found after 40 some years, the two are not incompatible.

lunamoth

Quahom1 · 04-30-2005, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Thank you for that story, Q, and nicely written.

Religion has brought division to many families to be sure. In my family whle I was growing up religion was just something in the background, something my Mom did and had us do as kids. My Dad is an atheist. I never knew this for sure until about four years ago when I asked him if he believed in God and he said no. This in spite of the fact that he started going to church (after I left home) and now is involved in church life and is quietly one of the pillars there. At any rate, the division caused by this was not in my family but in my psyche.

Still I'm not sure that this is really what Jesus was teaching here, that families need be divided over his message. Perhaps He knew that this would happen when some responded to His challenge:

This is the personal transformation Jesus taught as "The Way." Every day choosing to have Him as Lord, rather than the world. Every day taking up our cross and dying to our old way of being and raising to a new life, a new way of being. A way of being not based in fear and clinging to the world, but in love and clinging to God. You bet that if your mother or brother does this it will affect the whole family. My mother modeled that God-centered life even as my father lauded the triumph of knowledge and science over ignorance and superstition. And, I have found after 40 some years, the two are not incompatible.

lunamoth

Oh, I think we are on the same page Luna. I wanted the church, my dad wanted his wife, and she wanted Jesus to be in all of our lives.

Now, we all have eachother and Jesus, or Jesus first and all the others to boot.

v/r

Q

AveCaesar111 · 05-02-2005, 12:22 AM

Jesus is obviously not a nut case! If he is that means all of us followers are as well (although most people these days would probably agree with that)
I read a book called "The Hard Sayings of Jesus" by F.F Bruce that really help to explain some of these saying that in the modern tongue can seem kind of crazy. Im sure all chrisitian realize that as important as family and loved ones are, God and Christ are the msot important force in a Christian's life. Why is this. Think about the fact that as well as someone may know you, and as well as you may know someone else. no one else lives life with you like God does.
All humans long to be truly known and accepted (I know I do) but only God can truly share in the same exact experiences as I (you, he, we, she, they) can. And in that Way God is truly like us. Jesus is saying simply that in order to be truly godly, we must put Him before all our concerns and desires, even before our own families and loved ones. Though as we all know God wants us to love our families with all our hearts.
I think also the thread quote from Jesus means that, the doctrine of salvation ultimately WILL DIVIDE PEOPLE. It is unfortunate but I think all Christians, such as myself, have some members of the family and friends who seem so unwilling to accept the fact of Jesus' atonement and ressurection. Ultimately God wants to make sure that we trust HIM, even when we have loved ones who would tell us to believe otherwise.

P.S. Bandit...I am new to this forum but i wrote before and you responded and made me feel very welcome. I wanted to thank you and I hope you respond in the future. Peace in Christ to all.